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Any Tildes android app?
Seen a post or two about ios apps being developed. However, as far as android goes, I haven't seen any apps being developed yet for tildes. Which is definitely contributing to my lack of visits here and making it seem more like a chore. Am I just missing some options? 🤞 Or is the user base for Android just that low these days? 😢 Please someone tell me it's the prior😅
The developer of Reddit is Fun is working on an app but it is a few months away. See here
However the mobile interface works surprisingly well. I have the Tildes website saved as a shortcut on my home page using firefox. It's not really much different than using an app for the most part, the mobile design of Tildes is very well made. You can create a shortcut by following this guide for Firefox
I think the main issue I have with webapps is that I don't want a shortcut on my homepage of my phone. And I dont want multiple homepages. Ive meticulously organized my hundreds of apps into categories and folders in the applications section of my launcher and left my homepage pretty clean with only a few main apps on the dock and a widget as that's the way that's most pleasing to me. So when I want to browse some social media I go to the socials folder in my applications and decide what social media client I feel like browsing tildes isn't an option and basically gets put on the back burner.
I bolded the operative word that leads to which app you'd launch to do that.
Apologies for the jab, but I find it slightly ridiculous that we - as a whole - have all become so used to having a separate app for every single webpage they're viewing, even though in 9 out of 10 cases these apps do nothing but show us a slightly re-formatted view of the webpage so everything could work 100% fine through the browser if the makers of the website didn't intentionally prevent that.
So it's a cool thing that Tildes does not need yet another app installed is a positive thing. We all already have a browser installed, that's the client for Tildes.net.
Why do people in this community argue so vehemently against having an app for this site? Does it really matter to a non-user of the app that other users are using something else to navigate the site?
I suspect it's just a very passionate and extremely vocal minority. And those of us who feel otherwise simply can't be bothered to argue with them. I primarily browse Tildes via a browser on PC and mobile, but even I would love a dedicated app. And the fact that we're finally seeing some getting developed for Tildes is awesome news, IMO.
Idk why anyone would be against apps, but I'm definitely for the web layout. I like opening links in another tab. I just installed a random firefox fork on F-Droid and that's my tildes app! Like the only reason I used an app for reddit is because their mobile-friendliness isn't even an after-thought, for Tildes it pretty much behaves like a native app. Until an app comes out, I suggest you try out either Iceraven or Firefox Nightly just to hold you over, so you don't have random Tildes tabs open mixed with your regular browsing.
I don't mind the tildes mobile interface as much as I mind the way android treats webapps saved to the home screen. Every time I click on it to check tildes it opens a new tab, leaving me with dozens of open tildes tabs in my mobile browser.
I hate that too. My solution is to set the default browser to Chrome, but always use Brave for intentional browsing. Then every once in a blue moon, open Chrome and close all the dupe tabs for Tildes, Wordle, and everything else that I have a home screen shortcut saved for. It's not a perfect solution but it works for me.
I've never bothered with those shortcuts. I just download a fork of Firefox like fennec if I want it to be for browsing something specific. For everything tildes and lemmy related I have 1 browser just for that. If you are on ios you won't have as much browsers to choose from but there's plenty there for that purpose.
I think being against apps is due to things like privacy policies, EULAs, and the resulting loss of control of your data.
Not to say that your operating system, virtual keyboard, and browser don't have the same leakage problems (they do).
At the end of the day, a "site" you browse can gather certain telemetry about you in a browser. "More" telemetry can be gathered if you're browsing via a walled garden (app) specifically dedicated to a given site.
There was a time when the mobile internet was burgeoning and worked really well in your browser, and mobile apps were not yet up to snuff. In that period, a lot of people were really bositeriously of the opinion that migrating individual site experiences into half a dozen independent apps might lead to a consolidation of experience.
Imagine (sarcasm on!) living in a world where your experience of Reddit was governed by what your app felt like. Same for your banking. For your access to video content. For your access your your friends' thoughts, or your friends' pictures.
When your way of experiencing a type of content is pigeon-holed into an app ... It tends to have a consolidating effect.
Maybe it's better for sites to be pushed to offer a simple, effective, and usable web-based experience.
I'm with you there buddy. I have to admit though I will give props to both ios and android for adding finer-tuned controlls to what apps have access to. Ios did great with the choose which pics this app can see and android did pretty well with both work profiles and sanboxing app-data from other apps.
But at the end of the day, I will always feel much safer in a web browser because there's just a lot less security concerns.
With browsers it's basically an exploit needs to be found to gain unaithorized access... with apps, I have to trust each and every individual app developer to not try anything shady.
It's a pretty clear choice: would I rather risk giving access to my files to a browser, or all the apps on my phone? The exploits found on browsers are extremely rare and kept very low key because they can be patched overnight, and the people commissioned to find them are likely after specific targets.
If the trust for the developer is there though like with a bank's app or something, I'll place my bet on the app being more secure though. I just didn't like the whole forcing everyone to use apps phase that companies tried to push on everybody.
I suspect some of it is people worrying that any app created wouldn't necessarily adhere to the design philosophy of the site. E.g. The comment box being after all of the other comments is a deliberate design decision to promote people reading the other comments first and I have already seen a couple of examples of third party "apps" with it above the existing comments.
As the developer of RiF is a prominent figure here I expect that app will follow the philosophy so don't think the "no app" crowd has too much to worry about.
Indeed. And both iOS apps have developers that have been very receptive to the suggestions about adhering to the comment box placement too. So as long as we continue to communicate openly with third-party developers, explain why it is we have done certain things, and ask them nicely to respect those decisions, I don't think we have much to worry about.
If that was actually what they argued we could at least have a proper discussion, but no, it's about the semantics of browsing the site and that you have a browser on your phone, never mind that the problems with the design are mostly about interaction with the site apart from the browsing itself.
As for the design philosophy, there is no reason an app developer couldn't adhere to that same philosophy. We wouldn't know until someone actually created an app. An app could also enforce parts of the philosophy like preventing comments from being posted within a certain amount of page view time to make sure people have actually spent time reading the posts.
And also, it isn't really a given that the way the site has been designed is the best way to follow the philosophy either. The app developer might have different ideas, and maybe they come up with some ideas the site developers could use. Again, we wouldn't know until someone tried.
Yeah I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm new here but every time I've seen discussion about apps come up there always seem to be a punch of people vehemently arguing against it - and a lot of the reasoning provided comes off (to me) as pretty silly. Like the whole "not everything needs to be an app" angle which makes zero sense because anybody that doesn't want to use an app can just.... not? An app existing just as an option doesn't inherently negatively impact people that don't want to use one in any way.
If the app was eventually forced on mobile users like what Reddit does, yeah that'd be stupid. But that's not at all what anybody is asking for.
Well part of it could be that the main philosophy of Tildes, documented here, specifically calls out that the "main mobile interface" is the web (even though apps via API are a supported option):
Personally I don't really care either way. If an app is a low-friction adoption vector for some, then developers should feel empowered to unlock that for those users. What I think most folks are upset by when they push back is an expressed sense of entitlement: That Tildes needs an app and they won't use it until someone provides it for them. That a web browser just isn't "good enough". etc
I don't really agree that wanting a mobile app is the same thing as being entitled. I'll be the first to admit that I'm super new here so it's entirely possible that I've missed people acting in the way you're describing, but so far I have never seen anybody that I'd describe as expressing a sense of entitlement. The most I've seen is people saying they would prefer to have one because it would make navigating the site on mobile easier (and could provide other features, like notifications, which would be nice).
I agree that Tildes has a pretty nice native mobile interface (which is really refreshing coming from Reddit constantly trying to force you to download the app), but it's not as good as it could be with an app. It's not going to stop me from coming here because I really like it here (and tend to prefer browsing on PC anyway most of the time), but I really don't understand the strong pushback from people here against those that want an app. Anybody that doesn't want to use an app can just do that, the existence of apps or not has zero bearing on that choice.
The one thing I do understand is the idea that Tildes was built with specific design philosophies and that people don't want apps that circumvent those things, such as by putting the comment box right below the post as opposed to at the bottom of the page. It's one of those things that seems weird at first until you give it a chance and think it over, and then makes sense. And having apps out there circumventing the design of Tildes might undermine that effort.
That being said:
That could become an issue with or without an app. There's nothing stopping somebody from making a RES-like browser extension that could change the layout of the page, to my knowledge.
All of the app developers I have seen so far have been really cool and understanding about stuff like the comment box being at the bottom.
People can already leave comments without scrolling to the bottom by simply replying another comment.
Somewhat connected to 3, but at the end of the day if somebody doesn't want to read and just feels like posting garbage comments off the cuff, they will do that regardless of any safeguards you try to put in. We have to have some trust in terms of moderation, cool people being invited, and all that stuff. So really I'm not sure that will be significantly swayed one way or another by the existence of third party apps.
I haven't actually argued against it, I think an app will be great, but speaking for myself: It was frustrating, long ago now, to watch the trend towards apps, when in many cases a lightweight mobile site did the same thing without requiring extra permissions or a permanent spot in my phone storage.
The web (and browsers) as a universal platform was a worthy dream with a lot of upside and little downside.
Early on the push to apps was mostly big players, as a way of doing more data mining and creating more lock in. That and getting a more prominent position on people's phones.
Along the way, for better or worse, it went from being a marketing strategy to what (many) users actually wanted.
Maybe some version of that is part of why people respond to "where's the app" posts passionately.
Or maybe not, in any case there will be apps :)
If you want to get right down to it, websites weren't supposed to become the webapps they've become. The web was about the exchange of data. A website should be one possible way to consume that data, but that's just the top one or two OSI layers, application and presentation.
All that changed circa 1994 with the commercialization of the Internet.
Apps are a byproduct of trying to have rich presentation on bandwidth restricted devices. Webapps are sort of the middle ground to standardize web packaged apps so that thin client devices like Chromebooks and devices like cell phones could provide a similar experience across devices with reactive designs -- one code base for everything, but it is also therfore restrictive if someone wants a different experience.
So going back to applications means that you can have the data separated from the presentation. Using APIs, an application authorized to use that interface can present things as desired by the developer of that app, and by extension the web app can also use that API to provide the experience for which the stewards of the website intended...
However, I don't believe, especially for user generated content, that a website should be the gate keeper for how that information is presented and consumed. They should create the default/standard way, but just like the content being generated, the user should have the final decision. A webapp can provide the model and hopefully demonstrate what other presentation layers aspire to achieve, but it shouldn't define the only option of others can exist, using the site in a way which is by all reasonable measures, indistinguishable from that default implementation.
My personal thoughts on this is that each app has its own settings, and with those settings come possible loss of control. Many apps scrape data to which they should honestly have no rights, but you just have to click the "I accept" and voila. (I presume Tildes would have no such issue, or nothing comparative to Meta et al.)
Additionally, if you have one app - namely your browser - that basically does what all the specialized apps do, why not just use the one?
I agree that apps can do undesirable things like data scraping, but that's just a possibility, not a guarantee. Anybody that wants to use an app or doesn't want to use an app can make their choice. If you don't want to use an app the existence of an app shouldn't really have any bearing on you.
It just comes down to preference. Some people prefer to have things like notifications or additional customization options that the mobile site doesn't currently have. Some people care about that and some people don't. Theoretically isn't it the best of both worlds if those app users can have the functionality they want without it taking away development time/effort from the main site?
Oh, yes definitely! I actually have been keeping an eye open for an Android app for Tildes. It seems like the sort of place where if there was an official app, I'd likely be okay with it... and third party options are also doable (depending on the presentation). As soon as monetization starts edging in, that's when problems erupt.
My reply was focused on the "argu[ing] so vehemently" comment.
I might posit the frustration over apps stems from the whole reddit API fiasco. It's definitely what pushed me to Tildes. Reddit lost a lot of good favor doing that, I'm willing to bet there's anxiety about it happening to Tildes, too.
In some cases apps are superior as they behave differently than web browsers. For example, in many cases a browser may refresh the page upon opening the browser which can be undesirable.
Of course, and it depends on the use-case. But for something like Tildes it's really just about processing text, intentionally in a non-realtime setting (so notifications, nevermind that browsers support them, aren't really important), and then writing replies to them.
Both text display and text input browsers can do. And while the refresh can be annoying but depends on the phone hardware, I will say that at least on Firefox, textbox entries are retained during refresh. So nothing is lost.
Of course a native app doesn't have a downside other than space requirements either, but for this page in particular I can also understand it's a really low priority for developers, given how mobile-optimized it is.
I'd be happy to continue just using the excellent mobile site, but there are some quality of life improvements I hope to see in an app:
Coloured lines for indentations to more easily see which comment was being replied to
A full screen reply box so one can see more of the text being written at the same time
Swipe actions, particularly swipe to ignore
My principal annoyance with using Firefox is that if I use the shortcut to Tildes homepage while I have a tab with a Tildes thread open, it opens a whole new tab with the homepage rather than opening my existing Tildes tab (since that tab isn't on the homepage anymore). This is different than how most apps behave and results in me having like 50 Tildes pages open in my browser at a time, which is annoying.
That said, the mobile website is very well-designed, so I'm happy to keep using it until Three Cheers For Tildes is ready!
The thing about having a separate app is that it acts like a bookmark. When I want to be on tildes, I want to be on tildes. I don't want to search through my tabs on my browser that's full of movie times and random news articles. It's not a HUGE deal but it does make it that one step less accessible to me.
Edit for word
Agreed. And I frequently want to look something up that I see referenced here (like the name of a book, or fact checking something I read, etc). It’s so much harder to toggle between chrome webpages than it would be from a separate app to chrome. I guess I could solve this by opening Tildes in Safari, but ultimately an app would be the most convenient
Same
https://youtu.be/MTOa2Imauqk
I think there are plenty of reasons to prefer a specific app to a web page shortcut. For one, I constantly have to re-login to Tildes on my browser, wouldn't need to for an app (if it's built well). Also it's nice to have an app that is purely dedicated to a purpose. If I click back one too many times, it won't take me out of the site. I don't always need to see the address bar if I try to scroll back up. Many browsers also have little notifications that pop up which can be annoying. Also having things completely segregated is just a better feeling for some. That last point might just be more cause of my OCD, but still valid for many.
This seems like either a bug or a conflict with how your browser is configured. I very rarely have to re-login using plain ol’ Safari on iOS.
But they wouldn't be able to spy on you as easily and collect that sweet, sweet data ;)
On a separate note. I managed to create a new Instagram account for my small business, without giving Instagram my mobile phone number(managed to use just an email address) when I tried to log in to it
for the first time, this notification thingy said that I was"banned for suspicious activity" and basically the only way to prove I was legitimate and get my account unbanned was to provide a mobile number for a "security check"...
For me personally, I'm not a huge fan of mobile websites because they just feel clunky. A native app generally feels more responsive IMO.
Another user had created a native app for Tildes using GoNative.io website. This installs like a normal app and is visible in the app drawer. You can also use the website to create your own apk.
https://tildes.net/~tildes/53g/i_created_an_apk_wrapper_for_tildes_if_anyone_wants_to_use_it
u/PopeRigby
I've made an updated version, the only real change being it adds the (in my opinion) crucially needed drag-to-refresh.
On iPhone, I've used some regex voodoo to only have the back button appear on links, instead of every button click (ordering, groups, etc).
GoNative source and emulator
Android APK download
Out of curiosity, what is stopping you from putting the shortcut in a folder? I’d be very surprised if you couldn’t do that on Android.
The problem is Tildes doesn’t provide the manifest file to be a PWA that opens standalone without all the browser chrome. The website is fine, but I don’t want to be taken to my 500 browser tabs when I just want to browse Tildes.
Add something like WefWef to your homescreen vs Tildes and IMO it’s a world of difference in terms of the experience quality, even though both are just websites added to homescreen.
Well, having a manifest for a PWA would be way easier than maintaining a native app.
I think that something @deimos should look at.
The things (PWA) that you can "install" to home from FF or Chrome can also be dragged into the organization folders/groups.
You should try wefwef.app, is PWA and it resembles a lot to Apollo. One of the coolest PWA I have seen.
I'm not sure which platform you're using (phone, android version, etc) but I was able to create a shortcut that opens in chrome and it's basically an app icon like any other that I moved into my socials folder in the same spot RIF used to sit in. It's obviously running in chrome but it's been super smooth and easy to use. Seems like a pretty easy work around. For what it's worth I'm on Pixel 6a running Android 13.
You'd probably benefit from learning about an app called Hermit. You can do all your "webapps" in one place and it blocks craz quite nicely among the many other tweaks you can do
I concur, compared to Hacker News on mobile whose upvote arrows are tiny little icons that I'd need to file down my index finger to accurately hit, Tildes' vote text, vote boxes, and other tappable areas are generously-sized. About the only thing I'd want an app for is perhaps swiping gestures, but honestly I'd rather just use the mobile site since I'm not spending that much time here.
Ha! I don't even bother voting on hacker news on my phone. Not that it's any better on a desktop either. I only use HN to read articles and comments on my phone.
lol I have news.ycom zoomed in at 150% on my browser.
For what it's worth, there are several good HN apps out there. Many are FOSS and a few are available on F-Droid as well.
I'm using Firefox too but my beef is that if I have a Tildes tab opened on some topic, and click on my home shortcut, I'm opening a new Tildes tab. I don't mind clicking on the shortcut and going back to the original tab. Any idea on how to do this?
Shortcuts are okay, but on mobile I personally prefer when sites do the PWA thing to behave a little more like a native app.
I see that Tildes has a manifest for this already, but it's using the
browseroption for the display mode (so it just works like a regular shortcut) instead of thestandaloneoption which I like better. This would be a trivial PR, but I'm not really sure if it makes sense — it's totally just a matter of opinion, and maybe most people prefer it the way it is.Using
standalonewould get rid of the buttons for the browser functions like back and reload though, right? Do you just need to use gestures for those actions in a standalone one?An app I've made uses "minimal-ui".
I use the android provided back-button and there is a ... menu in the upper-right of the PWA for reload & forward (and share & translate & open in FF)
My phone already uses gestures for the back button but I'm not sure why a phone with a dedicated back button would lose it in a standalone instant app.
I do have the /kbin app so I don't get the browser's bar to popup when I scroll up. But they have the website itself set up so its top bar is always showing so you don't have to scroll all the way to the top to access your sidebar, for example. I think that alone would make Tildes much more user-friendly.
I can only really speak to Firefox on Android, but yeah you can use the system back button and do a pull-to-refresh thing.
minimal-uigives you the navigation buttons but still opens it as an "app" instead of a regular tab — that could be an option too.Dumb idea, but could https://tildes.net/paw or another URL or profile option load into the
standaloneweb app while the normal website is just a website so that both options are available, or is it more involved?In addition to what other people have mentioned, you can use Hermit as a wrapper for the mobile site to make it an app-like experience on your phone. Not quite a full app itself, but close to it (because the mobile interface is so good in the first place).
Excellent suggestion, thank you. I just took about one whole minute to download and set this up. Now I have an icon to launch Tildes in my app dock, in the exact spot that, until a few days ago, Sync for Reddit occupied.
Cue Steely Dan - Change of the Guard
I would like to echo the thanks for this, Hermit is awesome
I have recently implemented this as well! I also sprung for the premium version so that I could use Tildes Userscript: Tildezy and now can double tap to collapse/expand comments.
I'm sure you can do this with Firefox and Tampermonkey as well.
Works pretty well! I think that this satisfies all that I would want in an app.
Android user base definitely still outnumbers iOS. Apple just provides better tools & platform for developers, on top having a customer base that’s proven to be more willing to pay for apps - that’s why you’ll often see more development happening there.
I'm still surprised there's so many iOS apps already public and nothing Android for Tildes specifically. This kinda site feels very "Android/Linux user" focused, and I do see a disproportionately high number of Linux tech posts compared to say Reddit or the average Discord server. Tildes is also very anti monetization with no ads on the site or any of the iOS apps, so that shouldnt affect it.
I wonder if that's exactly the reason why there aren't apps as yet?
The site works perfectly on a browser (and on Android you have plenty of options to choose from), so there's not really a need for an app.
I use Firefox and just tapped "Add to homescreen", then stuck it in my time drain folder.
When I first joined I thought I wanted an app, but after using the site in browser on both desktop and mobile I just don't see any need.
Having said that, if old mate talklittle fires up a RIF style app for Tildes I'm on board. A decade of that interface got me hooked.
Funny you say them specifically... Talklittle is already working on an Android and iOS app called Three Cheers for Tildes, it's just not publicly available yet.
I agree the monetization part isn’t particularly relevant here other than as a reason why there are more iOS devs in general.
I’m not surprised at all there’s more iOS apps though. It’s just easier to make one IMO. Even when I had an Android phone, I primarily developed for iOS 😆 Android side has gotten much better over the years but so has Apple.
I think a lot more of the tech-savvy nerd types you’re thinking of as Tildes’ niche use iPhone and Mac than you might think
I'd be surprised if this was all there was too it. Anecdotally, I work as an iOS/android/web dev and our upper management has 100% higher priorities related to iOS. Our android solution is very middling but our iOS one is decent (the company is really web focused so that's where most of the dev is). We aren't selling anything through the app, it's just a portal for using our product, so I dunno
I think the reddit is fun guy is developing one
Well, RIF was a great app so I guess I'll just have to be patient. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Also I will gove the wrapper a try for now. Thanks for bringing that up as well. I heard infinity developer might be making his app similar and cannot wait for that to be released as well as that was what I mainly used before. Guess there's at least a little development going on for us androidians.
https://tildes.net/~tildes/157v/im_working_on_a_mobile_app_for_tildes_three_cheers_for_tildes
I use "Three Cheers for Tildes" (3C4T). I think it works fine. The app can be downloaded for free Google Play Store.
I made a little WebView wrapper specifically for the purpose of having an app shortcut, rather than home screen clutter. It just uses Android's native WebView and the Tildes website, no extra libraries or anything. Super simple. I'm putting the final touches on an update that should be out soon to add a bit extra functionality. If you're interested, you can download the release on GitHub.
We should recruit Apollo dev. That dude deserves some support.
You can make a shortcut to the site on your home screen. Makes it a little easier to get to the website regularly and it looks like an app.
Open up Tildes in Chrome, then hit the 3 buttons in the upper right hand corner and tap "add to home screen"
Wouldn't mind an app just to see if it's possible to improve on the work here. The more, the merrier. But...
The developer has done a crazy great job on building both a desktop & mobile site that just feels great to be on. I've only been on here a few days and have noticed tons of small touches everywhere.
It took me a few days to see the organizational power of the sidebar. Once I did, the mobile aspect of this site really came together for me.
I wonder if it would be possible to turn the site into a PWA? It's what my company did when we began transitioning into a mobile wing of the company. You have to add a service worker (ngsw) and a manifest file and then the site can be "installed" with a more clean full screen layout like an app. If it were a PWA, you can run it through a program called bubble wrap to turn the website into a TWA, essentially an app running a browser that looks native, and that can go into the app store as a short term solution