Help me choose a small electric car
I moved from Europe back to the US Midwest this spring. While I'm still getting my financial situation stabilized, I will at some point in the next year or so need to buy my own car (currently I am living with my parents and borrowing their cars as needed). Given the state of the world and gas prices, an electric car seems like a no-brainer to me. Less maintenance and with current gas prices I'd save money even if I could only charge at the stations in my neighborhood, much less if I install something simple at home. I'm an anxious driver and have incredibly little desire to drive long distances, so range is also not super important to me.
The problem I've found is that I'm not a "car person" and I'm not sure how to find and pick the right car for me. I figure we've got some car people here on Tildes who will have a better idea of the market and manufacturers involved.
My parameters:
- No Tesla. This is non-negotiable. I will buy an ICE vehicle before I get a Tesla.
- Nothing super luxury. I'm not made of money. I know there aren't any really cheap electric cars available that I'd dream of here in the States yet, but I want to stay as affordable as possible.
- I do not want anything bigger than a sedan. SUVs and crossovers make me nervous and I want to drive a small car.
- A hatchback would actually be my preferred form factor, but I don't think there's many options of that size. The only one I've found upon searching is the Fiat 500e, which appeals to me for that reason.
- ICE cars who appeal to me in terms of size and design include the MINI Cooper 2-door, the Volkswagen beetle, and the Kia soul.
- I'm not wed to getting a new car, but as an anxious driver (thus wanting a lot of the fancy modern safety features and alerts) and someone who isn't super knowledgeable about cars (thus not wanting to rely on my own ability to spot a dud before buying it), I'm leaning towards it. I'll take suggestions for used cars to look for, but keep in mind that since I'm in the Midwest, there may be a smaller pool of used EVs available for me to buy locally.
The most reliable and cheap to maintain vehicles are (non-plug-in) hybrids. You will likely get 300k+ miles without serious maintenance which is unheard of in traditional ICE vehicles. You also avoid the tremendous battery replacement costs of EVs. If you can get an EV, great! If it doesn't pan out, this is the next best way to go.
On the small and cheap end is the Corolla LE Hybrid at $25k USD (56/46 mpg.) All Camrys are hybrids, so if you splurge, that's the next best option in this category.
This is the opposite experience that I've had (sample size = 1), but it also just doesn't make that much sense.
Hybrids - even non-plug-in ones - have all the components of a traditional ICE vehicle, and most or all of the components of an EV, which comes with all of the maintenance requirements of both. On the EV side of thing, there's basically zero maintenance required, but there's still just more parts that probably won't, but might break.
Which car did you have?
For the Toyota hybrids, that's not true, the hybrid system completely replaces the ICE-style transmission.
I had a 2008 Prius. I kinda just assumed it had the same transmission, but mostly my comment about components was related to things like oil, fluids, belts, and other general wear items that do need replacing as they wear out. Transmission failures are expensive whether they're ICE or the hybrid system, and unless a model is particularly known for transmission issues, probably shouldn't factor into the equation on whether to buy it.
I'm not saying hybrids are unreliable, but they do need to follow basically the same maintenance schedule as an ICE, whereas EVs need basically no maintenance outside of tires, brakes, and air filters.
This is a common misunderstanding, one I used to hold too! I used to say, "but it's got two drive trains! We have all the normal ICE problems but with EV problems bolted on!"
What I didn't know was that the "ICE" side is radically different from normal ICE engines. Additional power for acceleration, for instance, comes from the battery, not by running the engine harder. There aren't the constant RPM spikes that traditional motors undergo; the engine putters along at a stable speed. On top of this, the engine isn't always running for daily city driving. These factors considerably reduce the stress the engine is under.
The eCVT in hybrids is bulletproof and is unlike transmissions in ordinary ICE vehicles. This just isn't a failure point for hybrids in the way transmissions of all types are failure points for traditional ICE vehicles. I recommend the following video as a jumping off point for further investigation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnUFH5GX_fI
I'm not sure I buy that a hybrid has the maintenance benefits I'm looking for when it's still got all the ICE internal components that need regular maintenance (even if they don't ever serve as a point of failure) in there. A hybrid is definitely an improvement over a pure ICE vehicle in terms of savings on gas, so I'd definitely go with one if I can't get an EV, but it doesn't really add up for me since it still has all the same parts that can fail and need maintenance as a pure ICE vehicle, plus extra stuff. As for EV battery replacement costs, even older EV batteries are afaik holding up for much longer than expected, and with modern EV batteries I'm not particularly worried that I'd incur those costs any sooner than I'd incur major costs from issues with an older ICE engine.
I recommend this comment where I respond to this worry (a worry I used to share too!) https://tildes.net/~transport/1w1v/help_me_choose_a_small_electric_car#comment-ildu
Are people actually doing that? My own bubble of news (granted positively EV biased) tells me that other parts of the car are more likely to fail before the battery degrades enough to be unusable. I certainly haven't changed my habits nor really felt any degration with 2020 Kona EV (150000 km)
EV batteries have outperformed all expectations. The first generations of them are in the 10 years old range now and they mostly seem to still be in good shape. The battery conditioning measures they started introducing have been very effective so I really don’t think it’s worth worrying about. Like you said, other parts will wear out first, and even an ICE car is going to start needing serious work after that amount of time that’ll be well over the $10k-$20k lump sum you’d pay to fully overhaul the battery.
As a fellow non-car person who share a lot of your nervousness, how about buying certified used cars? It's be like buying an OEM endorsed refurbished unit.
For example, the Toyota certified pre-owned comes with time/mileage warranties (unsure about fine print) and roadside assistance.
[Noise] If you're buying an electric, yes it's too big but, from looks alone may I suggest a VW Buzz ID? I think they're super adorable and come in a plathora of colours and I could live in one if I became homeless
I've heard good things about certified pre-owned, I'm just worried about actually finding any suitable certified pre-owned electric cars around me.
I've also shipped an SUV from West coast to the Atlantic coast, the total cost was $3287 CAD, independently with a company, so I imagine it'd be cheaper as a sedan through the dealership itself. Might be worth asking if there's a big inventory / price discrepancy. My understanding is that they ship vehicles all the time
Cheap electric sedan that isn’t a Tesla basically constrains you to the Hyundai Ioniq 6 or the Nissan Leaf. Of the two the Ioniq is the way to go despite costing almost double the Leaf because the Leaf is reportedly very lame.
If you’re willing to go used you can probably get a used BMW i4 without too many miles on it for about $30-$40k, roughly the same as a new Ioniq 6. A used Polestar 2 would come in even cheaper, maybe $25-$30k.
If you’re willing to scale up to a crossover that opens up a lot more options for you. The Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 are well reviewed, and a used Mustang Mach-E would probably come in at $20-$30k.
Reviews on the i4 have been fantastic BTW. If I didn’t have kids and a dog I’d be getting one certified pre-owned. A lot of people are trying out EVs and returning them with very few miles right now so you can find great deals on ones that are basically new but with the new car depreciation shaved off so it’s a steal.
But alas, I had to follow Colonel Guile’s advice so I’m leaning to a Rivian R2 when my pre-order ticket is called up.
I'm in Rivian country (central IL) and I do love the look of them. Wish they were cheaper but also I'm not going to need something that big (unless I convince them of my "all electric wheelchair vehicle" PR idea)
You should get in touch and tell them where to send your royalty check.
(ALSO is spin-off company of Rivian’s for developing various micro-mobility vehicles.)
I didn't see a wheelchair accessible vehicle but the formatting was awful on the phone. I just was thinking the PR of Rivian being local to me would help me get a free one.
But good to know they have a spinoff
Oh I misunderstood, I thought you mean like an EV wheelchair. Right now they just have an e-bike, but the focus of the company is micromobility generally so stuff like wheelchairs and strollers are in their remit.
afaik the new Nissan Leaf is an SUV, not a sedan.
The Ioniq 6 looks to be a bit more expensive than the Fiat 500e (which remains the only electric hatchback I can find) but at a similar price point.
Hold up. Here comes a new challenger.
The Chevy Bolt is back. I didn’t realize that was out already. This might actually fit your case perfectly. It’s like a roughly VW Golf sized hatchback and it’s under $30k.
Yeah, Chevy unceremoniously killed the Bolt lineup and then unceremoniously brought it back. 😂
2023 Bolt EUV owner here, @sparksbet. I love it. The photos make it look like a full-size SUV but it’s really not that big. It’s more like a tall car.
I adore mine. If you have any questions about it, let me know, but I do think the Bolt line ticks most, if not all, of your boxes. I would recommend getting a newer model over an older one (they switched plugs and battery chemistry when they revived the line).
Also, I don’t know if it’s still on offer, but they used to pay for the home install of the Level 2 charger when you bought a new one. That’s how I got the plug in my garage. It was nice that it was included in the price of the car rather than a separate expense.
The Ariya is the SUV version. The Leaf is more like a weird hatchbacky thing, similar to the Ioniq5/EV6 but with a slightly smaller footprint. It looks kind of a like an SUV in pictures because EVs are often just kind of like that, with slightly raised floors and long body panels that make them look tall/chunky. But if you park it next to a sedan it’ll take up about the same space.
I would remain open to small crossovers. There are fewer and fewer sedan/hatchback options available in general, and in the EV space, and manufacturers are choosing to make EVs out of their SUVs and crossovers ahead of their remaining sedans and hatchbacks.
As far as I can tell, the only new electric cars (and not crossover) that aren’t a Tesla and aren’t luxury are the Nissan Leaf and the Fiat 500e (The Ioniq 6 is being discontinued). Opening yourself up to crossovers multiplies your options tenfold.
Edit: forgot about the Charger Daytona. There are screaming deals to be had on those.
...do/will you have ready access to overnight charging infrastructure at home?..that was my primary blocker when i rented...
I currently live with my parents and would be able to install level 1 charging relatively easily here. Finding a suitable place to rent is a longer-term goal and relies on me having my own car anyway, so I don't have a specific current place I'm renting that I'd need to keep in mind.
Don’t mean to nitpick, but level 1 charging at home is trivial and requires no installation. A lot of newer EVs will just give you a level 1 charger upon purchase, and all you have to do is plug said charger into a 120v outlet, and you’re good to go.
You can do the same thing with a level 2 charger, by plugging it into a 240v outlet, but I wouldn’t recommend that if you aren’t confident. Most electricians will recommend wiring in a level 2 charger.
I have a 2021 Kia Niro EV that I bought used. We had to fix an issue with the AC right after we bought it, but otherwise have had 0 issues. I highly recommend it. It's genuinely the only small crossover-style EV that I could find, and it's perfect. It's very similarly sized to my ICE Kia Soul, just... rounder. They're still making new ones.
I was very sad about having so much trouble finding a small crossover — I really did not want an SUV, and I still think that my Soul is basically the perfect car (I wish they hadn't cancelled the EV Souls!). I was really, really excited when we went to test drive this Niro and I saw it in person and realized it was almost exactly the size and shape that I wanted.
It gets about 270 miles on a full charge in the summer, more like 230 in the dead of winter. Have taken it on relatively long drives (central Jersey to Boston) and only needed to charge once in the middle at a fast charger.
Slate Truck is taking pre-orders, and Ford Fathom is in a similar price range with a lot of bells and whistles that wouldn't come standard with them. Granted, those are both small pickup trucks, and not sedans, but they are pretty basic, cheap, and available new and a lot of your alternatives are not all of those things.
https://www.slate.auto/en/preorder
https://www.ford.com/electric/fathom/
Edit: Right, there was a refresh of the Chevy Bolt, that would probably check all your boxes.
About the logistics of charging : you may be interested in
our Lord and dishwasher saviormany nerds favorite explainer video about this subject. This may help you calibrate what your needs and expectations about range. TLDR: if your daily commute is like 60km total your more than fine with just any modern EV.