Seeking recommendations for Ethical Non-Monogamy (ENM) apps for a bi gal like myself for cute dates with other women only?

So far most of what I've tried have been very limited/one way interactions (unsure if people have forgotten how to ask questions!?). ONLY SEEKING FOR SELF, NO UNICORNS/NOT A UNICORN. Sorry just had to make that clear....

Any recommendations would be appreciated! PS am Au based not USA...

My spouse and I went to dinner with my parents in law tonight. Father-IL can be hard in Mother-IL generally speaking, often picking on her and 'teasing' her. Mostly criticism. It can make things pretty uncomfortable, but as mid-westerners do, rarely my spouse or the other family people speak up unless it's to rib back in order to deflect or make it stop. FIL and MIL are both in their late 70's, so aging, and conservative catholic, so daily drinkers. We went to dinner tonight to celebrate my MIL's birthday. FIL is generally stressed out due to drama with his siblings/health issues/he's just a super stressed out person, and he ordered something in a wrap and asked for no onion. Meal came and there was onions. FIL complains passively to us and we say he should say something. He says, "no, no, no."

Server came and asked, "how is everything?"

FIL says "it's fine, it's fine"

MIL starts to say, "well..."

FIL interrupts with, "shut your mouth, MIL!"

Awkward silence...eat dinner when it comes...everyone is trying to act like nothing happened.

We finish dinner and we're finishing our drinks and MIL asks, "myspouse, are you okay?"

My spouse says stilted, "yeah, I'm fine."

MIL says, "world, are you okay?"

And out of me erupted, sternly but not with a yell, towards my FIL, "it's not okay to say 'shut your mouth' yo your wife."

Everyone got quiet. Then FIL tried to defend himself and say, "I've rarely ever said that, something something, I don't need this."

Then he shut me down so I just said, "heared, heard" and left.

He said in the car on the way home, "maybe I over reacted, but..."

And I said, "I shouldn't have said anything, I know you're under a lot of stress."

Now everything is awkward and strained and quiet. I don't need to be adding more to an already stressful life situation for older folk whom I do care about, but I couldn't hold my tongue. How does one strike balance in a situation like that?

Tale as old as time, I suppose. Straight man doesn't understand women. I'm hoping this site will provide a healthy place to discuss my feelings and get wholesome input from others without it turning into a pity party or cesspool.

I didn't have any interest in dating until after I'd graduated college. Unfortunately, I immediately moved to an area of the country notorious for its unfavorable gender ratio. There are many more men than women here which means I'm starting on hard mode. I do at least have some traits which make things easier than for most. I am high earning, reasonably fit (not super cut but I work out most days), tall and I believe mentally healthy. However I can tell that my approach doesn't really catch with most people.

I've had limited success out here. Some of my failures are mine to own. Getting started from nothing means I'm venturing into the unknown. I'm a naturally anxious person and never felt any intuition in social situations. Thankfully I've managed to figure out a way of being that jives with some people and learned the hard way the things I do that don't jive so well. But dating seems to have its own social rules - and they're harder to learn due to all of the misinformation.

To sort out a lot of the misinformation I look to the people I see with the greatest degree of success. The older couples that are clearly deeply happy. My parents do pretty well in that regard. They've been married for 30-ish years with nothing more than a short argument between them. Or maybe I'll talk with an older co-worker who loves his wife the same way he did decades ago. People say that all happy families are the same, and unhappy families each broken in their own way. It's clear that there are some things in common with the happy couples - a universal recipe for happiness and success.

• Forgiveness
• Consistent effort
• Flexibility
• Similar values

I try to take these virtues with me when dating.

Of course, mutual attraction is a black box and also plays an important role. I've tried dating women that are just outside of what I would consider attractive. I think it's important to know what truly is important to me. But I found that things did not feel right and I can't compromise in that way. I'm not looking for a 10. But if I know they are not attractive to me it won't work.

In the normal world (outside of online dating) I think the odds of a random person being instantly notably attractive are very low. Someone needs to be sufficiently aesthetically attractive, but also have the right mind and soul. Without the latter two I have no interest. So for me when I've met a nice woman from a dating app the process of learning more about this person begins - and it can take a while to truly get to know someone. But I draw on the virtue of effort and am more than willing to make that an active process as we get closer.

There are actually some people out there that this all seems to align with. I think it's mostly a matter of time before I find the right person - so I'm not entirely discouraged. But the vast majority of women I meet seem to have the same feedback. They don't feel a connection - maybe that translates to "they're not attracted enough to me", maybe it's something else. But what I call a "connection" is something that can't be absolutely determined after one date.

Given my profile pictures are representative of my appearance, I don't think they're all saying I'm aesthetically unattractive to them. Sure, some might decide after meeting me that they aren't as attracted in person. I experience that for myself some of the time. But I suspect that much of the time this is more of a mismatched approach. I really want to know either how better to find my kind of person, or what ways I can adapt to be flexible for the women I'm dating.

Edit: Thank you everyone for your thoughts!

A lot of people said a lot of things, many of which sounds right to me but only a few I think are applicable as next steps.

1. My own reflection leads me to believe that being more present and less analytical will make dates more enjoyable and productive for both people.
2. Keeping a very long term goal in mind cripples the dynamic of early dating. It requires future prediction abilities beyond what a human can do.
3. I don't know if I can be the "fun guy" all the time but I can definitely increase the amount of fun.

I wrote up a journal entry about what I wrote here and everyone's responses. I'll bring up my thoughts with my therapist later. Maybe this is weird but I threw the journal entry into ChatGPT. If nothing else it was positive and cheerful, which is helpful. But I was able to drill down on a few different things and got answers that sound reasonable. This is surely a common enough topic that it's got good training data for it.

I'd also like to say, for whoever reads my comments, that much of what I wrote is more about following a thought as far as it will go more so than putting my internal constitution into writing. I'm here to be as malleable as I need to be.

I mentioned offhand in our introduction thread that I've never dated -- I wanted to hear people's experiences, since chatter online is very dominated by the male experience of mostly looking for casual hookups and struggling to get matches. I particularly want to hear from people who did not go in wanting a casual relationship

Some additional discussion questions: Did it go well or poorly? Did you run into mismatches in expectations? Did you end up in an unsafe situtation? How many people did you explore before you found someone long term?

Age for context would also be helpful, since I know many of you skew older.

The idea of what it means to be a man has evolved significantly over the last century. We can build a fresh perspective on understanding masculinity beyond the stereotypical confines of strength, stoicism, and dominance. I appreciate Deimos trying out new groups and allowing topics to flourish. I could see this group having healthy discussions about the diverse experiences and expectations of men in today's society.

I envision topics on personal anecdotes, insights, and questions. I wanted to list out a few possibilities for future discussions that are top of mind.

1. The changing roles and responsibilities of men in personal and professional life.
2. The impact of societal norms and expectations on men's mental health.
3. Embracing vulnerability and emotional openness.
4. Men's role in promoting gender equality and mutual respect.
5. The significance of self-care and well-being in men's life.
6. How men can effectively communicate their emotions, needs, and concerns.
7. Relationships, expectations, and stereotypes

While not comprehensive, it's a start of areas we may consider. What are your thoughts on what this group could be?

EDIT - Grammar and Summary 7/9/2023 @3 pm mountain

Hello, everyone. It's encouraging to see such in-depth and thoughtful conversations on ~life.men. I wanted to take a moment to recap the significant themes I read up to this point. This is high level, so please correct me if I got it wrong.

Our discussions around Stoicism have been quite enlightening, and we've recognized its potential to encourage self-control and inner resilience. Nevertheless, we've also acknowledged its potential misuse, which might inadvertently promote unhealthy aspects of masculinity. This is a subject that requires more nuanced exploration.

We've unanimously expressed the need for a supportive environment for men of all identities. This includes cis, gay, trans, and men of all other identifications. Despite potential challenges such as toxicity and inactivity, many believe this forum can serve as a respectful and positive space to engage in discussions about contemporary masculinity.

Conversations have emphasized challenging traditional gender norms and fostering inclusivity. There's been a strong consensus against defining masculinity by outdated stereotypes. We've expressed a shared commitment to creating an environment welcoming everyone, regardless of gender identity. We also acknowledge the role of diverse geographical and cultural backgrounds in shaping our understanding of gender, which we deeply value.

The topic of men's role in promoting gender equality has been prominent. We agree on the importance of men as allies in this movement. Tackling the rigid roles defined by patriarchal norms is crucial, as is having open and transparent conversations on these issues. Progress in gender equality benefits everyone - it's not a zero-sum game.

We've also delved into gender norms, roles, and the usage of gendered language. It's been encouraging to see such scrutiny of societal expectations and a strong emphasis on promoting universally beneficial values and inclusivity. There's a shared understanding of the complexity of gendered language and how it can both define personal identity and represent broader affiliations.

We've explored varied experiences in male-specific spaces. From the importance of representing all demographics to discussing the challenges of modern fatherhood, we've covered extensive territory. There's a shared commitment to guard against potential toxicity and ensure balance in all our discussions.

We have expressed the importance of focused discussions on men's experiences. Challenging assumptions about masculinity and addressing men's issues from multiple perspectives can impact our society.

I'm new to Tildes and not sure where to go from here. Given all the valuable insights and themes we've gathered, how can we adopt draft guidelines for our community? I suspect we can see how this develops organically, but I appreciate approaching things intentionally. Thanks for all the comments and discussions. It has me thinking much more broadly!

I'm finally ready to sacrifice my self esteem and faith in humanity at the altar of dating apps. My question for those of you with more experience with them is this - do different apps attract noticeably different pools of users? What have you noticed comparing the populations on different apps? Which wound up working best for you, if any of them did?

Any that had particular features that bothered you? I've been using Hinge for like a day and already discovered they have a separate queue for your best matches that they demand a premium currency to message :/

Two years ago by wife and I split up as friends and while I understand it and think it was the right move, I'm still in tears and the feeling of a broken and pointless life. She moved on, found friends, new hobbies, new whatever. I still am where she left me and I don't know what to do. We've been together for almost 20 years and while I wasn't very communicative before, I sure ain't now. Even less than before.

I tried finding new friends, but I can't really read people and seem to misinterpret everything. I've met a woman on my daily walks with my dogs and her dog loves me and my little idiot dog. We two seemed to like eachother and after a few months of random meetups I asked her if I should give her my email (because I thought that would be less intrusive than my phone) to meet for walks. I made clear that I didn't intend to hit on her, but the look on her face broke my heart. I can't really tell what it was, but it wasn't positive. Now I'm back in my hole and back at feeling alone.

How do people move on? How can I get out of this... I don't know, terrible loneliness combined with the fear of seeing that expression again if I open up to others? I don't think I can handle this often.

Be it books, advice, tips, quotes, movies, activities, etc. Just anything that might've stuck and gave a new perspective on how to approach relationships.

Specifically looking for things to help improve relationships with family (parents & siblings), but honestly advice for any relationship is welcome (friends, partners, etc.).

Also thoughts on how/when to address topics such as mental health, diagnoses and sexuality or if they should be addressed at all.

Thanks

Occasionally people here get into discussions about social relationships, namely dating, and what quickly comes up is how both of those seem to be less common and harder to 'get'. This more frequently happens in overtly dating and relationship subreddits and similar dedicated spaces, albeit, of course, this also pops up in more general communities, alongside any community where social relationships are an important topic, like communities about social ideologies like feminism or the manosphere or about genders because heterosexuality.

One thing I often find is missing is some historical context. A lot of talk about loneliness and lack of platonic or romantic relationships is basically limited to the recent past, if it even talks about the past at all. It seems like it would be helpful to look at what relationships and dating were like 10, 20, 30 years ago when it comes to talking about the problems or just general state of both today. So do you know of good sources of information concerning relationships in the past? If so, then why do you think they don't pop up in discussions about dating?

for those still committed to monogamous relationships: if you've been in a situation where you're talking with a few people that could be romantic interests, how do you let them know it's not gonna happen once you've found the (current) one ?

I've been in a relationship with my current girlfriend for almost a year now, and things seem rough right now because of an issue we're having.

My girlfriend is upset with me because she thinks I don't care about her past trauma. She's told me, very roughly, what she's gone through, and I told her that whenever she's ready to talk about it, I absolutely will. But according to her, the last time she tried to initiate talking about it, I told her that I had no idea what to say. And this upset her and stonewalled the discussion.

I don't doubt that happened. My problem is, is that if she were to try again, I might just very well do the same thing. I have zero idea on how to handle something of this severity. How do I ask her to talk about it? Is that something I should be asking? What does someone even say when given this information? I am not equipped whatsoever to deal with information of this magnitude and I'm at a loss. How do I let her know that I really do care about her, and am 100% willing to listen to what she has to say? I worry I'm too far in the doghouse to even make use of any of this advice, but any help is immensely appreciated

Edit in case anyone was interested: We talked and we're okay :). She told me what she went through and I didn't handle it nearly as bad as I worried I was going to. Thanks everyone for your kind words and helpful advice.

I recently went through some old boxes and found my collection of mementos - birthday cards, love letters, ticket stubs, etc. - from years gone by. I'm not convinced marriage will ever be for me, but I've always imagined if I were to get to that point, I'd want to show such a collection to my SO as a way for them to fully understand my story, so to speak. On the one hand, I think of it as a pretty powerful expression of trust in your partner... but I realize the potential for that to massively backfire by introducing jealousy and insecurities. At the same time, I'm very strongly of the belief that what is shared within a relationship is not to be shared with others outside it without mutual consent. I hate gossip, and have had my share of conflict throughout the years over desiring more privacy and discretion in my various SO's conversations with their friends and family about us. That means I would probably choose to leave aside certain things out of respect for my exes, but then I'm not sure if that devalues the gesture.

Any thoughts?