44 votes

What is something you've changed your mind about recently?

What's something you've changed your mind about recently?
What prompted the change?

114 comments

  1. [31]
    cloud_loud
    (edited )
    Link
    Probably the biggest thing is that I decided that I won't be as accepting of everything. A few years ago I was a hard lined SJW. I was very picky about word choices, even if they weren't meant to...

    Probably the biggest thing is that I decided that I won't be as accepting of everything. A few years ago I was a hard lined SJW. I was very picky about word choices, even if they weren't meant to be offensive. But, as I've spent less time online, and have had a period of relaxation from all the stress I endured in college, I've gotten less picky about things.

    Not that I'm some anti-SJW type now listening to Ben Shapiro or anything. But, I guess you can say that I'm less woke. I remember there being arguments about using "stupid" and "crazy" to describe certain things and how that can be offensive to nuerodivergent people. I think that's a dumb conversation to have, but two years ago I would have tried to take those words out of my vocabulary (in fact I think that's exactly what I tried to do).

    There's other stuff like people using "bat/batself" as pronouns, or "neopronouns," or people saying how "folx" made them feel included. I think there was a part of me that found that a little weird, but now I can finally admit to myself that it is ridiculous.

    The most ridiculous stuff out there are people who think they're witches, or the new age revival of Astrology. The frustrating part is when people tie these things to feminism, and how if you find these things embarrassing and cringe-inducing you're a sexist bigot (in certain corners of the internet anyway). I always found that stuff ridiculous, and I think that was the starting point. When I would hang around leftist twitter there was an abundance of these types of people, and I felt forced to be accepting of them. Logging off made me realize that this is not what most people are like, so I felt relieved about that. I felt relieved to be around normal people for a change.

    Edit: I didn’t expect this to get that much attention or to spark such a heated discussion. I’m not sure what the discussion down below has descended to. But just for posterity sake I will add: I’m not transphobic, I feel like I need to clarify that. I think trans (including non-binary people) are valid. I don’t have a problem with people stating their pronouns as long as they’re actual pronouns (He/She/Them) and not a bunch of made-up stuff that has no science to back it up.

    I’m also not white. Not that I think it’s important, but in case someone thinks this is coming from someone that needs to be “educated” about marginalized groups. I am a caramel colored individual.

    33 votes
    1. [5]
      autumn
      Link Parent
      On the flip side, I’ve come to accept witchery more easily! I don’t believe in the supernatural (including gods, spirits, etc.), but I do think there’s psychological power in ritual. Placebo magic...

      On the flip side, I’ve come to accept witchery more easily! I don’t believe in the supernatural (including gods, spirits, etc.), but I do think there’s psychological power in ritual. Placebo magic is something I have been practicing for a long time without knowing the term for it. Meditation can also fall under the same umbrella, and I find playing around with tarot cards to be a good way to think about a situation in a new way. (I don’t believe I can predict the future with tarot.)

      27 votes
      1. [4]
        userexec
        Link Parent
        Minor note on that: Meditation promotes activation of the parasympathetic nervous system, so it's a really practical tool (source among many). If I have significant anxiety and am in danger of a...

        Minor note on that: Meditation promotes activation of the parasympathetic nervous system, so it's a really practical tool (source among many). If I have significant anxiety and am in danger of a panic attack, I've found that doing Wim Hof breathing (activate sympathetic) followed by mindfulness meditation (activate parasympathetic) actually jogs my whole state so hard the whole thing just stops.

        Little side note on that, too, though: I don't actually recommend doing Wim Hof breathing due to reports of it activating tinnitus in some people. There doesn't seem to be a good understanding yet of why that is. Plus anyone selling cure-all health books is sketchy. Unless you're doing it for a really specific reason (like intentionally initiating a fight or flight response for meditative purposes), maybe don't. I just use it because it's the quickest and most practical way I know to light up the right areas.

        7 votes
        1. reifyresonance
          Link Parent
          To draw one step further into woo, I've been learning Reiki (an energy work system for healing), and have been using it to great effect on myself when I've got bad anxiety/am verging panicwards....

          To draw one step further into woo, I've been learning Reiki (an energy work system for healing), and have been using it to great effect on myself when I've got bad anxiety/am verging panicwards. Here's an article about it! The Atlantic - Reiki Can’t Possibly Work. So Why Does It?

          While I'm here, I'd like to draw in one of my favorite essays of all time, Dancing With The Gods. I suggest the whole thing, but here's an excerpt that gets my point across:

          There's my experience. Now some theory for you skeptical types out there.
          If my language is too "religious" for you, feel free to transpose it all into the key of psychology. Speak of archetypes and semi-independent complexes. Feel free to hypothesize that I've merely learned how to enter some non-ordinary mental states that change my body language, disable a few mental censors, and have me putting out signals that other people interpret in terms of certain material in their own unconscious minds.
          Fine. You've explained it. Correctly, even. But you can't do it!
          And as long as you stick with the sterile denotative language of psychology, and the logical mode of the waking mind, you won't be able to --- because you can't reach and program the unconscious mind that way. It takes music, symbolism, sex, hypnosis, wine and strange drugs, firelight and chanting, ritual and magic. Super-stimuli that reach past the conscious mind and neocortex, in and back to the primate and mammal and reptile brains curled up inside.
          Rituals are programs written in the symbolic language of the unconscious mind. Religions are program libraries that share critical subroutines. And the Gods represent subystems in the wetware being programmed. All humans have potential access to pretty much the same major gods because our wetware design is 99% shared.
          Only...that cold and mechanistic a way of thinking about the Gods simply will not work when you want to evoke one. For full understanding, the Apollonian/scientific mode is essential; for direct experience, the Dionysian/ecstatic mode is the only way to go.
          One great virtue of this dual explanation is that it removes the need for what William James, in his remarkable "The Varieties of Religious Experience", called the "objective correlative". By identifying the Gods with shared features of our psychological and inter-subjective experience, but being willing to dance with them on their own terms in the ritual circle, we can explain religious experience in respectful and non-reductive ways without making any anti-rational commitments about history or cosmology. Scientific method cannot ultimately be reconciled with religious faith, but it can get along with experiential mysticism just fine.

          5 votes
        2. [2]
          NoblePath
          Link Parent
          I can only find videos about wim hof breathing. Can you give a short synopsis of the technique?

          I can only find videos about wim hof breathing. Can you give a short synopsis of the technique?

          1. userexec
            Link Parent
            So the idea is you cycle very quickly between states of hypocapnia and hypoxia. Basically, in 2-3 cycles, you: Hyperventilate with 30 or so very fast, full in breaths (focus more on in being fast...

            So the idea is you cycle very quickly between states of hypocapnia and hypoxia. Basically, in 2-3 cycles, you:

            • Hyperventilate with 30 or so very fast, full in breaths (focus more on in being fast and deep, let out handle itself). Now you're high on oxygen and low on CO2.
            • Hold your breath until your desire to breath in gets quite powerful (which might take longer than you think). Now you're low on oxygen and high on CO2.
            • Take a full, deep breath in, and hold it for 10-20 seconds. Now you're back to starting point.
            • Repeat

            You definitely feel the effects of it, and they get more powerful with each cycle. By cycle 3 that last breath hold is a pretty disorienting light show for me. Not something you want to do while in water or driving. I transition from that straight into a sort of combined progressive relaxation/mindfulness meditation.

            If I had to explain how it works for me, I'd say it's like my body saying "Hey, we're gonna have a panic attack" and me responding "DAMN RIGHT WE ARE GIVE IT HERE" and my body is so shocked that I ripped it out of its hands that it doesn't know how to respond.

            7 votes
    2. [3]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        NoblePath
        Link Parent
        I recently had my mind changed about this. I was in the “that’s overkill” camp and didn’t bother. Then I heard how powerful it is to identify my personal pronouns fir two purposes. First, it...

        I recently had my mind changed about this. I was in the “that’s overkill” camp and didn’t bother.

        Then I heard how powerful it is to identify my personal pronouns fir two purposes. First, it really normalizes and validates the idea that gender is fluid, broad, and not binary. Second, for any people among the group who are gender fluid or morphostic, it validates them and is helpful to know they are respected for who they are.

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. NoblePath
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            It’s my intention to, I haven’t had an opportunity since attending the talk. But i do now put pronouns in my zoom name. I expect it will look like me just adding “i’m he/him” after sharing my...

            It’s my intention to, I haven’t had an opportunity since attending the talk. But i do now put pronouns in my zoom name.

            I expect it will look like me just adding “i’m he/him” after sharing my name.

            Edit: kid in the thrift store had a button. Maybe there’s a lapel pin?

            6 votes
    3. Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      Do you realize that basically all pronouns outside of he were neopronouns at one point in time? I get the general idea of your post - choosing which battles you wish to fight and caring where you...

      or "neopronouns,"

      Do you realize that basically all pronouns outside of he were neopronouns at one point in time?

      I get the general idea of your post - choosing which battles you wish to fight and caring where you have the fortitude to do so, but it sure reads a lot more like 'wow other people suck' to me.

      18 votes
    4. JXM
      Link Parent
      That seems like picking a ridiculous example to disregard genuine requests from people who just don't feel that he/she fits their view of themselves. If me changing what I call someone helps them...

      There's other stuff like people using "bat/batself" as pronouns, or "neopronouns," or people saying how "folx" made them feel included.

      That seems like picking a ridiculous example to disregard genuine requests from people who just don't feel that he/she fits their view of themselves. If me changing what I call someone helps them to feel included and better about themselves, it's no skin off my back.

      15 votes
    5. [7]
      Macil
      Link Parent
      I think there's some things in progressive spaces that are more ... about the fashion of the space, being an identifiable signifier of it to others in the space. You give a pretty pure example...

      I think there's some things in progressive spaces that are more ... about the fashion of the space, being an identifiable signifier of it to others in the space. You give a pretty pure example with "folx". The word "folks" is already gender-neutral, and the "x" is just a symbol to show that you're with a certain in-group. Maybe some other things you mention, like debates against "stupid"/"crazy" wording, are less pure examples of this: there might be an okay argument that's overly bolstered because of the fashion of the social space it's in. I think there's a lack of commonly-accepted social standards in progressive spaces for discussing this kind of issue. Push back requires a lot of careful explanation and effort to convince people you aren't just a right-winger that disagrees with their underlying goals, so that push back happens less often than it might otherwise. I think there are some progressive spaces that are a bit better about this.

      14 votes
      1. [6]
        NoblePath
        Link Parent
        In my view, this is positive behaviour, if the “in” group is one which members are trying to promote positive social environments. In this case, If it were me saying it, it’s me claiming...

        and the "x" is just a symbol to show that you're with a certain in-group.

        In my view, this is positive behaviour, if the “in” group is one which members are trying to promote positive social environments. In this case, If it were me saying it, it’s me claiming membership in the positive movement of creating a social sphere where claiming gender identity that is non customary is fully acceptable. In other words, I’m communicating that I understand there is an issue here, and i want to be a part of the process of making it not an issue.

        8 votes
        1. [5]
          Adys
          Link Parent
          Yeah … to me this reads as a lot of feel-good superficialism. I may be biased because the controversy around "latinx" has left an especially awful taste in my mouth: Once again, US americans...

          Yeah … to me this reads as a lot of feel-good superficialism.

          I may be biased because the controversy around "latinx" has left an especially awful taste in my mouth: Once again, US americans trying to push their ideologies onto other cultures with no respect to how those cultures actually function.

          Ignorance-driven cultural insensitivity sailing under the flag of tolerance. With this being the poster child of "adding x to shit", I'm sorry, I cannot see that "movement" as anything but virtue signaling.

          (/rant)

          9 votes
          1. hungariantoast
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I go to a university in Texas with a sizeable population of students from central and South America. "Latinx" is used a lot around here, especially by the students to whom the term applies. I...

            I go to a university in Texas with a sizeable population of students from central and South America. "Latinx" is used a lot around here, especially by the students to whom the term applies. I honestly have zero idea what you're on about. The term "latinx" is not an example of white Americans trying to push an agenda against people in central and South America, "latinx" is a term that's gaining widespread use in the United States, by the people to whom the term refers.

            8 votes
          2. [3]
            NoblePath
            Link Parent
            What’s wrong with signaling virtuous attitudes? If I can help someone feel safer to be who they are, how is that not making the world better? It seems to me that everyone in America (at least) who...

            What’s wrong with signaling virtuous attitudes?

            If I can help someone feel safer to be who they are, how is that not making the world better?

            It seems to me that everyone in America (at least) who is not white and cis (and often, also male) is at quite a disadvantage, and that system creates long term harm to everyone.

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              Adys
              Link Parent
              The problem is when it's entirely shallow, as in the example I've given: A change that is entirely for the sake of US americans, imposed on latin americans by people who clearly don't speak or...

              The problem is when it's entirely shallow, as in the example I've given: A change that is entirely for the sake of US americans, imposed on latin americans by people who clearly don't speak or understand the language.

              "latinx" is not making the world better, and if anything it's making it a little bit worse. Latin americans did not have a problem until US americans said they do, and imposed a "fix" that is unpronounceable and makes no sense in spanish.

              It's culturally insensitive, that is what it is. Hypocrisy at its finest.

              Sidenote: Among my acquaintances is a cis white american who "turned to SJW" pretty hardcore (I think he's making up for how shit he used to be to women in the past; but whatever, people can change for the better, right?).
              Anyway, I had dinner with him where he ordered some "freedom fries" and insisted on calling them that, claiming that saying "french fries" was culturally insensitive to the french.

              I'm french. I almost lost my shit. I said nothing because reasons, but he had zero understanding that "freedom fries" was made up as a xenophobic attack on the french after we didn't support the Iraq war bullshit. I genuinely thought all americans his age understood that. No. It's just all the same: counterproductive feel-good superficialism. It's entirely selfish.

              15 votes
              1. NoblePath
                Link Parent
                One of the best threads of American culture is its tendancy toward pluralism, and language is an important tool in progress. While you are correct that there can be a misuse of in-crowd...

                One of the best threads of American culture is its tendancy toward pluralism, and language is an important tool in progress.

                While you are correct that there can be a misuse of in-crowd shibboleths (and your anecdote is certainly in line with that) I don’t think latinx or proclaiming your pronouns is a part of that. Mother Jones has a good article.

                5 votes
    6. [7]
      lou
      Link Parent
      You seem to have become generally less tolerant. Are you sure that is a positive?

      You seem to have become generally less tolerant. Are you sure that is a positive?

      11 votes
      1. [4]
        papasquat
        Link Parent
        It doesn't sound that he's intolerant at all really. You can think that things are stupid/ridiculous while also being tolerant of them. I think that asking to be referred to as "batself" is...

        It doesn't sound that he's intolerant at all really. You can think that things are stupid/ridiculous while also being tolerant of them. I think that asking to be referred to as "batself" is ridiculous, but it's not like I think that they shouldn't be allowed to ask.

        18 votes
        1. [3]
          Gaywallet
          Link Parent
          I don't know about you but deciding that something is worthy of mockery or derision doesn't really sound tolerant to me. Tolerance, to me, implies not actively trying to destroy, undermine, or...

          ridiculous

          I don't know about you but deciding that something is worthy of mockery or derision doesn't really sound tolerant to me. Tolerance, to me, implies not actively trying to destroy, undermine, or mock the opinion of others.

          13 votes
          1. [2]
            papasquat
            Link Parent
            You can totally think something is worthy of mockery without actually mocking it. Tolerance is about actions, not internal feelings.

            You can totally think something is worthy of mockery without actually mocking it. Tolerance is about actions, not internal feelings.

            19 votes
            1. hungariantoast
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Talking about and mocking things online is an action though. No matter how cute and "rational" the debate might be, denying someone's pronouns is not tolerant. Full stop. Doesn't matter where,...

              Tolerance is about actions

              Talking about and mocking things online is an action though. No matter how cute and "rational" the debate might be, denying someone's pronouns is not tolerant. Full stop. Doesn't matter where, when, or how you do it. It's intolerant.

              Saying you think something is ridiculous is intolerant. Just because you aren't marching down the streets with "anti-X" flags and punching people in the face does not mean you aren't being intolerant.

              5 votes
      2. [2]
        cloud_loud
        Link Parent
        Sure. I’m basically like the Chapo guys, if anyone here is familiar with ChapoTrapHouse.

        Sure. I’m basically like the Chapo guys, if anyone here is familiar with ChapoTrapHouse.

        3 votes
        1. lou
          Link Parent
          I am not familiar with that, sorry...

          I am not familiar with that, sorry...

          3 votes
    7. [7]
      the_funky_buddha
      Link Parent
      I don't find that any more cringe-inducing than other women who wear gobs of makeup and cosplay as cowgirls or Christians or see any reason to be offended by it since it's no more intellectually...

      The most ridiculous stuff out there are people who think they're witches, or the new age revival of Astrology.

      I don't find that any more cringe-inducing than other women who wear gobs of makeup and cosplay as cowgirls or Christians or see any reason to be offended by it since it's no more intellectually taxing or ridiculous than said cosplay.

      For the other stuff, I can generally agree. I think it comes to a point to where it can burden society and be intellectually taxing when we have to be ultra-inclusive and ultra-sensitive but your latter point I see as the odd one out because as said, witch cosplay doesn't burden society. Besides, there's so many "normal" people out there role-playing such superficial roles but it's not politically correct to call them out so you have to repress your feelings yet it's somehow okay to mock the non-Christian role-players and call them "weird". And of course, it goes without saying that not everyone's role-playing as you do have people who legitimately believe in Pagan, Wiccan, Christian/Amish/Mennonite, Judaism and such religions and dress up in their traditional outfits.

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        AugustusFerdinand
        Link Parent
        I don't think they're offended by them. I think they're just stating that they're now willing to admit openly that someone claiming to be a witch, as in someone that claims they can influence the...

        I don't find that any more cringe-inducing than other women who wear gobs of makeup and cosplay as cowgirls or Christians or see any reason to be offended by it since it's no more intellectually taxing or ridiculous than said cosplay.

        I don't think they're offended by them. I think they're just stating that they're now willing to admit openly that someone claiming to be a witch, as in someone that claims they can influence the world around them through mystical means of witchcraft, is as ridiculous as a televangelist curing someone through the power of gawd and the same goes for the newfound interest in astrology/tarot with claims that whether some celestial body being in some different place in the sky will determine if you are going to have a good week or not.

        Has nothing to do with religion, has everything to do with overall absurdity of belief in some invisible force's ability to influence real life. Burning sage and chanting around a circle doesn't cure cancer or get the lawn mowed any faster than prayer and personal sacrifice. If someone feels the need to believe in something otherworldly or to go through some ritual to feel grounded, safe, less stressed, or whatever that's just fine. But it wasn't a promising tarot reading or an answered prayer that got you that job or helped you score a touchdown.

        9 votes
        1. [2]
          the_funky_buddha
          Link Parent
          That's pretty analogous to praying (I see you mentioned it below). Not that I believe it but I don't think prayer or witchery is "weird". We are humans and we're wired to have somewhat of a belief...

          as in someone that claims they can influence the world around them through mystical means of witchcraft

          That's pretty analogous to praying (I see you mentioned it below). Not that I believe it but I don't think prayer or witchery is "weird". We are humans and we're wired to have somewhat of a belief in doing all we can do sometimes even if we're not sure things will work, some call it faith, hope and harmless wishing. Some of it can be relied on so much that they replace it with more conventional and proven means but at least your average "witch" on IG or tiktok, many don't really believe and just role-play like many religious do.

          or an answered prayer that got you that job or helped you score a touchdown

          That's being intellectually dishonest, fact is, you don't know as it's unfalsifiable. I'd agree that I don't think it works as they probably intend but I'm not going to say it doesn't help if it lifts their mood which may be the point. And at this point it's just more taxing to be annoyed by prayer and witchery than to just let it be.

          2 votes
          1. AugustusFerdinand
            Link Parent
            Disagree as the claims are by parties that they achieved X because of prayer/spells, which is unprovable. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Covered in the sentence directly...

            That's being intellectually dishonest, fact is, you don't know as it's unfalsifiable.

            Disagree as the claims are by parties that they achieved X because of prayer/spells, which is unprovable. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

            I'd agree that I don't think it works as they probably intend but I'm not going to say it doesn't help if it lifts their mood which may be the point.

            Covered in the sentence directly before the one you quoted.

            OP stated they...

            felt forced to be accepting of them.

            ...instead of the same pat on the head given to any other outwardly religious individual. Now, why OP is not just going with the "let it be" approach to all of it and instead chooses to allow themselves to be annoyed at any of it, I do not know.

            5 votes
      2. [3]
        cloud_loud
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I don’t care for religion in general. I think all that stuff is nonsense. But it really shouldn’t be that odd to say that people who believe in hexes or magic are weird. We can tip-toe the thing...

        I don’t care for religion in general. I think all that stuff is nonsense. But it really shouldn’t be that odd to say that people who believe in hexes or magic are weird.

        We can tip-toe the thing all day, “well why would you say this is weird when this other thing is also weird.” I’ve heard that argument several times. I don’t care. Cringe. There’s no other word for it. It makes me cringe. It’s embarrassing.

        6 votes
        1. FlippantGod
          Link Parent
          I don't want to get into the weeds on when hexes and magic are held to be real, but I do know that a lot of women "practicing" magic don't necessarily believe hexes and magic are real, and just...

          I don't want to get into the weeds on when hexes and magic are held to be real, but I do know that a lot of women "practicing" magic don't necessarily believe hexes and magic are real, and just sort of play the role. There seems to be a lot of interest because witchcraft and mysticism is heavily tied to women and their roles in society, historically. For example, both the persecution of women, and women in roles of power, either malignant and "evil" or as wise women, and women as independents outside the established social structures. It also has ties to herbalism and medicine, knowledge and even just growing plants in general, areas which I think a lot of women with an interest in these things also have a passion for.

          I don't really know off the top of my head, a segment of history across different time periods that centers so heavily around women.

          So it seems perfectly reasonable for anyone to be interested and passionate about these subjects, and to make it a part of their lives. Sure, some people will always believe hexes are real, but I don't think someone pretending they are, and having fun with it is cringe or embarrassing. It's also a good way to meet other women with similar hobbies and make friends, and generally be part of a social circle like anything else. Although as with most things, there are some problems with exclusion, and hazing, etc. witch is too bad.

          17 votes
        2. the_funky_buddha
          Link Parent
          I'd argue it's important if you want to be viewed as less biased and more consistent. You can not care but it'll make others care less about your opinion if it's inconsistent or irrational. It's...

          well why would you say this is weird when this other thing is also weird

          I'd argue it's important if you want to be viewed as less biased and more consistent. You can not care but it'll make others care less about your opinion if it's inconsistent or irrational. It's something I need to work on sometimes too. And I guess you could be embarrassed by someone freely practicing their religion or celebrate the privilege of being in a country where such a thing is possible.

          4 votes
  2. [4]
    AnthonyB
    Link
    The efficacy and importance of having difficult political conversations online. I was asked a question similar to this one and it made me realize that most of my opinions and beliefs didn't change...

    The efficacy and importance of having difficult political conversations online. I was asked a question similar to this one and it made me realize that most of my opinions and beliefs didn't change with a singular "Ah-ha!” moment, rather they slowly evolved over a long period of time. I think for a lot of people, we get caught up in this idea that if someone doesn't change their mind immediately, it means they won't ever change their mind, and trying to reason or argue is all just a waste of time. I think that is misguided. You're not going to mold a person's mind like it's a ball of clay. Instead, you have to chisel at it and sand it down like it's a block of marble. It's a pain in the ass and you're not going to see results right away, but over time it will begin to change.

    The last time someone asked me a question like this, I thought, "Nothing," but then I thought about the person I was five years prior and saw that a lot of my opinions had changed. Then shortly after that realization, January 6th happened and I saw what happens if you let people get sucked into an echo chamber. Since then, I've tried to start conversations when I see an opening to explain some of my pussy ass liberal views. So far I haven't got anyone to join the DSA, but I have chipped away at a few right-wing talking points.

    24 votes
    1. an_angry_tiger
      Link Parent
      The people you (the general you, not the person I'm replying to specifically) argue with have the same fervid conviction to their beliefs as you do yours, in a way it's really conceited to believe...

      The people you (the general you, not the person I'm replying to specifically) argue with have the same fervid conviction to their beliefs as you do yours, in a way it's really conceited to believe that you could flip a person you're not in great trust with's beliefs from one argument.

      If a right wing person made a really convincing argument in support of racism (if such a thing could be said to exist, which is a big if), would it be enough to flip anyone on the left? Most political convictions are probably directly tied to fears and feelings instead of rational thought.

      8 votes
    2. the_funky_buddha
      Link Parent
      I've thought about this a lot. I could easily be arguing with the self I was 5 years ago. If I argue with someone now will I just be arguing against myself in the future? We're all just a few...

      I've thought about this a lot. I could easily be arguing with the self I was 5 years ago. If I argue with someone now will I just be arguing against myself in the future? We're all just a few years away from being our own enemies sometimes. Or should we have grown up in a different environment or had different life trajectories we may be politically or ideologically very opposed to the views of our clones raised elsewhere. It does make you think twice about what you say and hopefully more well-balanced and objective.

      5 votes
    3. lou
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      In many sensitive online discussions, there comes a time in which discussion becomes so intense that it is impossible not to mischaracterize the other as the embodiment of everything you hate....

      In many sensitive online discussions, there comes a time in which discussion becomes so intense that it is impossible not to mischaracterize the other as the embodiment of everything you hate. This seem to be an inescapable property of online debates. At some point, everything you say will be read as confirmation for everything wrong with society, and you will do the same towards the other. Previous phrases and interactions will resurface as "evidence" of your impiousness. Everything will suddenly "make sense". Maybe we just get tired from suspending our disbelief, and finally throw ourselves in blissfull cynicism.

      Our suspicions were true, the world still makes sense...

      A good internet discussion never nears its conclusion.

      A bit off topic, hope you get the gist...

      3 votes
  3. [3]
    lou
    Link
    I enjoy doing my chores, every single day. I look forward to washing the dishes, cleaning and organizing everything. I just turn on my podcasts and go my merry way. I take pride on a tidy home,...

    I enjoy doing my chores, every single day. I look forward to washing the dishes, cleaning and organizing everything. I just turn on my podcasts and go my merry way. I take pride on a tidy home, and was surprised to notice my own disappointment when my girlfriend did my chores the other day.

    19 votes
    1. [2]
      vord
      Link Parent
      Ditto. I still have major problems getting started, but once in the zone I don't wanna stop till I'm done.

      Ditto. I still have major problems getting started, but once in the zone I don't wanna stop till I'm done.

      7 votes
      1. krg
        Link Parent
        Ha... I'd say that describes most of my endeavors.

        Ha... I'd say that describes most of my endeavors.

        4 votes
  4. [3]
    HotPants
    Link
    The triggered millennium stereotype. I've begun to suspect it's conservative pushback against a new generation standing up for human rights. It was actually folks on this site who brought it home...

    The triggered millennium stereotype.

    I've begun to suspect it's conservative pushback against a new generation standing up for human rights.

    It was actually folks on this site who brought it home to me. Kat, algernon_asimov & gaywallet to name a few.

    18 votes
    1. elcuello
      Link Parent
      Yeah these people have also opened my eyes to some thought provoking ideas and mindsets. To a point were I almost get mad because it's just easier to be ignorant.

      Yeah these people have also opened my eyes to some thought provoking ideas and mindsets. To a point were I almost get mad because it's just easier to be ignorant.

      8 votes
    2. lou
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      The excessively triggered millennials definitely exists as a group. The excessively triggered conservative also exists as a group. They both exist in their own perverse and aggravating ways.

      The excessively triggered millennials definitely exists as a group. The excessively triggered conservative also exists as a group. They both exist in their own perverse and aggravating ways.

      8 votes
  5. [10]
    suspended
    Link
    Git isn't the monster that I thought it would be (at least, thus far). Other developers, more experienced with git, showed me the way <- this is the way 😁
    1. Git isn't the monster that I thought it would be (at least, thus far).
    2. Other developers, more experienced with git, showed me the way <- this is the way 😁
    13 votes
    1. knocklessmonster
      Link Parent
      I'm not a developer, but git is definitely nice. I've used other systems just to pull various branches/releases for compilation, and git is comparatively straightforward. It may be because it's...

      I'm not a developer, but git is definitely nice. I've used other systems just to pull various branches/releases for compilation, and git is comparatively straightforward. It may be because it's also so well documented, but IIRC it makes a bit more sense than subversion or mercurial, which I've had to interact with to pull source code (I've only ever contributed projects via git/github workflows)

      It feels like everything is going towards git anyway, which isn't strictly bad because Linus Torvalds, at minimum, doesn't like restricting use of his code.

      3 votes
    2. hamstergeddon
      Link Parent
      It's certainly overwhelming to get into at first, but once you get it, you git it. That being said, anything more advanced than some commits, branching, and conflict-free merging is being done in...

      It's certainly overwhelming to get into at first, but once you get it, you git it. That being said, anything more advanced than some commits, branching, and conflict-free merging is being done in a GUI rather than the command line.

      2 votes
    3. [7]
      elcuello
      Link Parent
      I'm still struggling with the Git monster...Is there a place where they explain it like I'm 5? (besides your way)

      I'm still struggling with the Git monster...Is there a place where they explain it like I'm 5? (besides your way)

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        Saigot
        Link Parent
        Personally I think the official git manual is the best way. Reading the book cover to cover or least the first couple chapters (ch9 and 10 in particular aren't very useful for users) is extremely...

        Personally I think the official git manual is the best way. Reading the book cover to cover or least the first couple chapters (ch9 and 10 in particular aren't very useful for users) is extremely useful. It may not be the fastest way but it's very obtainable and very thorough.

        I read it over 4 months during my (very boring) first internship and while I don't remember every detail it has been extremely helpful.

        https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2

        5 votes
        1. Seirdy
          Link Parent
          Seconded. Official docs are underrated. The official Git book is the only tutorial you need, with manpages for reference and shell completion for quick lookups. For 90% of use cases, you'll be...

          Seconded. Official docs are underrated.

          The official Git book is the only tutorial you need, with manpages for reference and shell completion for quick lookups.

          For 90% of use cases, you'll be covered if you understand cherry-picking, bisect, the types of merging, and resolving conflicts. The knowledge it takes to do those operations also encompasses pretty much all the other important stuff.

          Also, learning how to collaborate with patches rather than branches/merges is extremely helpful for contributing to a variety of projects (Linux, ffmpeg, everything on Sourcehut, and many others).

          2 votes
      2. psi
        Link Parent
        If you're working by yourself on a single computer, these operations are basically all you need to know to get started: git add [file] # stages changes git commit -m "[description of what I...

        If you're working by yourself on a single computer, these operations are basically all you need to know to get started:

        git add [file]                                    # stages changes
        git commit -m "[description of what I changed]"   # describes changes
        git push                                          # pushes changes to remote repo
        

        If you need to revert a change or add a branch or whatever, just search stackexchange posts. I use git daily and these three commands are pretty much the only ones I have memorized.

        Otherwise, I thought this was helpful for getting me started:

        4 votes
      3. PetitPrince
        Link Parent
        Learn Git Branching is my go-to tutorial for people learning git. It explains some basic and not so basic concept in a great visual way, while still having to type the actual git command.

        Learn Git Branching is my go-to tutorial for people learning git. It explains some basic and not so basic concept in a great visual way, while still having to type the actual git command.

        4 votes
      4. cstby
        Link Parent
        There are a lot of great tutorials and documentation out there, but this chart is what really allowed me the most when I was learning it. http://ndpsoftware.com/git-cheatsheet.html#loc=index;

        There are a lot of great tutorials and documentation out there, but this chart is what really allowed me the most when I was learning it. http://ndpsoftware.com/git-cheatsheet.html#loc=index;

        2 votes
      5. elcuello
        Link Parent
        Edit: thank you all for the help!

        Edit: thank you all for the help!

        2 votes
  6. [12]
    streblo
    Link
    Beets. Always hated beets, or thought I did. Now they’re honestly in the top five vegetables for me. Pickled, boiled, in a salad, grated — it’s all good!!

    Beets. Always hated beets, or thought I did.

    Now they’re honestly in the top five vegetables for me. Pickled, boiled, in a salad, grated — it’s all good!!

    11 votes
    1. [6]
      joplin
      Link Parent
      This was me and Brussels Sprouts a few years ago. It turns out they’re only awful if you steam them. If you roast them, they’re delicious!

      This was me and Brussels Sprouts a few years ago. It turns out they’re only awful if you steam them. If you roast them, they’re delicious!

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        streblo
        Link Parent
        Yea seriously I don't know if it's a generational thing but man why did no one roast them when I was growing up? They are so much better.

        Yea seriously I don't know if it's a generational thing but man why did no one roast them when I was growing up? They are so much better.

        4 votes
        1. [2]
          vektor
          Link Parent
          And no salt either. FML. My mother tried for 20 years to get me to eat my damn veggies. Turns out, prepare 'em right and I don't actually hate them.

          And no salt either. FML. My mother tried for 20 years to get me to eat my damn veggies. Turns out, prepare 'em right and I don't actually hate them.

          2 votes
          1. Gaywallet
            Link Parent
            The secret to better tasting food: more fat, more salt if you think you added enough, you probably didn't

            The secret to better tasting food: more fat, more salt

            if you think you added enough, you probably didn't

            4 votes
      2. an_angry_tiger
        Link Parent
        Even raw in a salad they can be really good (trust me), steaming them is just the worst of all worlds.

        Even raw in a salad they can be really good (trust me), steaming them is just the worst of all worlds.

        1 vote
    2. [2]
      Merry
      Link Parent
      My favorite way to make beets is to peel them, cut them into small chunks, toss in avocado oil and salt, and then roast at 450F for 40 minutes. Toss them a couple of times during the roast. They...

      My favorite way to make beets is to peel them, cut them into small chunks, toss in avocado oil and salt, and then roast at 450F for 40 minutes. Toss them a couple of times during the roast. They come out camerlized and sooooo good.

      3 votes
      1. streblo
        Link Parent
        Roast beets are delicious! By no means the star in this recipe (that would be the dressing) but this is my favourite recipe featuring beets: https://whitewatercooks.com/portfolio_page/glory-bowl/

        Roast beets are delicious!

        By no means the star in this recipe (that would be the dressing) but this is my favourite recipe featuring beets: https://whitewatercooks.com/portfolio_page/glory-bowl/

        2 votes
    3. rosco
      Link Parent
      Seconded! I tried golden beets for the first time this year and am in love!

      Seconded!

      I tried golden beets for the first time this year and am in love!

      2 votes
    4. lou
      Link Parent
      Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

      Fact. Bears eat beets.

      Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

      1 vote
  7. [4]
    beanie
    Link
    I don't know if this is for the better or worse, I think most people around me would think this is for the worst: I no longer think "good/bad" intentions are relevant to discussions anymore. I...

    I don't know if this is for the better or worse, I think most people around me would think this is for the worst: I no longer think "good/bad" intentions are relevant to discussions anymore.

    I unfortunately had some pretty bad experience in my last job & moving to the midwest (experiences with sexism, racism, xenophobia, transphobia, sexual harassment, etc.) that, for some reason, seemed pretty debatable by those around me (almost as if they wanted a pass). They wouldn't even blink at such experiences/statements (or even say it just to be funny), but I thought said experences were alarming (and, to be honest, I think those jokes are just old, overplayed, and not funny. Have you watched movies from not-so-long ago? Their jokes don't age well IMO. To me, all of the jokes could be boiled down to "haha, black people, watermelon, chicken" or "haha, man dressed as woman, so silly"... change the channel please, your jokes aren't funny, they are just messed up statements followed by a laugh track.).

    Sure, they all "meant well" and said they didn't have "negative" intentions. But the intentions don't really matter to me anymore. I've come to think of the excuse/response of "I meant well" is just human beings attaching their ego to their views/actions; their plea to not be associated with the "bad people". IMO, no one wants to be the "bad guy", we know this. If you speak to a "villain", their actions/behavior is one they think is "good" as well. People have a different point of view on things, and they all mean well, or, at least, they'd come up with an argument with why it is meant to be taken well only to possibly convince themselves they aren't "bad" and that the way they grew up/ current behaviors hence aren't "bad" and they don't need to change anything about themselves. Let's let go of our ego or our view of ourselves as "good/bad" when it comes to our actions/behavior and just think of the subject itself (instead of ourselves in relation to the subject... I hope that makes sense).

    I guess my aim (or... intention... hahah!) for saying "good/bad" intentions aren't important to conversations/arguments is because it can tend to get in the way of actually arguing/discussing the subject and its points.

    From the discussions above, I bet someone(s) would come up with a counter example of how having "good" intentions do serve a purpose that should be considered in actions/behaviors. I probably lack imagination. And, I guess I should be open to changing my mind (hence letting go of my ego in the process? Oh, haha, I'm hypocritical, something to work on I guess.).

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      Thra11
      Link Parent
      Interestingly, most western legal systems consider intention to be quite significant. For example, intent is generally what differentiates murder from lesser crimes such as manslaughter. Do you...

      Interestingly, most western legal systems consider intention to be quite significant. For example, intent is generally what differentiates murder from lesser crimes such as manslaughter.

      Do you think that that's a mistake? Should the law consider only what you did and what effect your actions had, not what you intended? (I'm not trying to suggest that either approach is wrong, I'm genuinely interested)

      I bet someone(s) would come up with a counter example of how having "good" intentions do serve a purpose that should be considered in actions/behaviors.

      If someone genuinely means well or has good intentions (i.e. they're not just using it as an excuse as you describe), then if you can make them realise that their current actions aren't having their intended results, then hopefully, they'll change. The difficult bit is getting people to realise that their actions contradict their intentions, without backing them into a corner where they become defensive and change their intentions instead of their actions.

      12 votes
      1. beanie
        Link Parent
        Hmm... I may have not fully described what was in my head properly. Intentions are by definition just like an aim or purpose. I think aims/purposes/plans are important as they are...

        Do you think that that's a mistake? Should the law consider only what you did and what effect your actions had, not what you intended?

        Hmm... I may have not fully described what was in my head properly. Intentions are by definition just like an aim or purpose. I think aims/purposes/plans are important as they are reasons/motivations for doing, well, anything really. I think where I miss the connection is when someone labels an intention as "good/bad". I don't think the "I meant well/my intentions were good" is important in a conversation. Just explain the intention/intent: what was the aim and what outcome were you trying to produce, then we can discuss the pitfalls/misses. So, I guess to answer your question directly, no, I don't think it's a mistake, although, mistakes definitely do happen, but that's kinda another conversation. Intentions are important, but saying that "I had good intentions" while on trial just kinda doesn't do it for me. The "He's a good kid, let's not ruin his life over one mistake"... okay, every other kid's also "good", it's not ruining his life, it's holding someone accountable for their actions so that they don't do the same action/behavior again or feel that they are above it just because they are inherently good intentioned? INTERESTING EFFIN' QUESTION THOUGH! I definitely need to mull over it for a while before I fully form my opinion on it, but my gut instinct/reaction is telling me that it isn't a mistake.

        If someone genuinely means well or has good intentions (i.e. they're not just using it as an excuse as you describe), then if you can make them realise that their current actions aren't having their intended results, then hopefully, they'll change. The difficult bit is getting people to realise that their actions contradict their intentions, without backing them into a corner where they become defensive and change their intentions instead of their actions.

        I agree! And that's where I get stuck usually. Most of the experiences I've had lead to the end result you mentioned, where they "change their intentions instead of their actions." That was a great way to describe it!

        5 votes
    2. rogue_cricket
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I really struggle with this too! A person who hits grandma with their car because they were texting and a person who hits grandma with their car because they were aiming for grandpa and missed......

      I really struggle with this too!

      A person who hits grandma with their car because they were texting and a person who hits grandma with their car because they were aiming for grandpa and missed... those are different situations. But in either case, grandma's got to get to the emergency room, we've got to acknowledge that she was wronged and help her get some restitution, and neither of those drivers should be put in charge of a vehicle for a good long while. All this stuff isn't about punishing someone who "deserves" it, it's about making grandma whole again and keeping others safe. But then beyond that, maybe one of them should also go to prison. So I think it matters to a degree, but not with regards to the injured party, and certainly not as much as... most people are comfortable with, in terms of wanting to think of themselves ultimately as good people.

      It's fraught. I don't think there's really one rule of thumb that'll ever be able to sum it all up, it's just one of those things where most cases are going to be different from each other in subtle ways and many arguments are going to have merit.

      9 votes
  8. [4]
    vord
    Link
    Young Millenial/GenZ weirdness. Yea, yall a weird bunch. But I just accept that I'm old now and I'm not gonna get your culture the same way my parents didn't get mine. Heck, I even defend (most...

    Young Millenial/GenZ weirdness. Yea, yall a weird bunch. But I just accept that I'm old now and I'm not gonna get your culture the same way my parents didn't get mine. Heck, I even defend (most of) your antics when some of my peers (Elder Millenials) mock you for stuff they too don't understand.

    I do still worry about the deep pervasiveness of so many mental health issues, so I really wish you the best and hope you manage to sort out the worst of it by the time you hit 27.

    9 votes
    1. hamstergeddon
      Link Parent
      I'm in my early 30s, so I have no idea where on the Millenial/GenX spectrum I am half the time, but I have thoughts on this. I'm inclined to think the mental health issues have always been there...

      I do still worry about the deep pervasiveness of so many mental health issues

      I'm in my early 30s, so I have no idea where on the Millenial/GenX spectrum I am half the time, but I have thoughts on this. I'm inclined to think the mental health issues have always been there (with ups and downs in pervasiveness as society progresses/regresses), but younger folks are just not afraid to talk about them like their older peers are. We've seen society take huge strides toward acceptance of neurodivergent people in the last 10-20 years. I'm really thankful for that change because it makes things a lot easier.

      I saw 9/11 happen in my teens, I watched friends and family get shipped off to Iraq/Afghanistan, the economy crashed around me as I took my first steps into adulthood, rampant school shootings, Trump happened, very public police brutality was/is everywhere, and now COVID-19. I haven't felt like I could mentally catch my breath for most of my life now. The argument could be made that news and social media is a large part of why, but this kind of decades-long shit show kinda forces you to be super open about your feelings, anxieties, and depression. Otherwise you're going to crack.

      20 votes
    2. [2]
      cloud_loud
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I always feel odd when I’m grouped with a bunch of extremely online weirdos who form their life opinions through tik toks and tweets.

      I always feel odd when I’m grouped with a bunch of extremely online weirdos who form their life opinions through tik toks and tweets.

      9 votes
      1. the_funky_buddha
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Are you sure they're forming their "life opinions through tik toks and tweets" and instead there hasn't just been a minority of "weirdos" in society throughout history who felt they couldn't speak...
        • Exemplary

        Are you sure they're forming their "life opinions through tik toks and tweets" and instead there hasn't just been a minority of "weirdos" in society throughout history who felt they couldn't speak up and be themselves for fear of persecution? I take it one of your offenses is people who dress as witches or goth-types judging by your previous comment.

        Apparently someone somewhere will find a reason to be offended even by witch hats or whatever it is that's hurting feelings. I'm not into that other than being a bit goth-y myself but I have good friends, online of course, that play witchy roles and I don't see how it's any more weird than standard American cosplay, roles everyone tries to fit into which have lots of superficial dress and tradition to them but little utility anymore if it ever did.

        The cars we drive may be very fast, faster than practical so we can role play as race car drivers even though we won't make full use of them. Some drive big lifted trucks but only drive them around town to cosplay as manly men. Some cosplay as cowboys and cowgirls but they don't even know how to ride a horse. Some cosplay as hardcore rappers from the hood but they've never been to one. Some cosplay as military wanna-be's but have no training whatsoever. Many of them get off scott-free because they're the majority and because minorities are easier fodder for the weaker bullies.

        Edit: Also I'd guess you're experiencing a sort of rebound effect from perhaps insulating yourself in a certain sphere of influence so much, in your case it seems the online lefty-sphere. Rebound anger you see sometimes in religious types who are recently converted and after converting they think the world or others in their sphere told them "the big lie". The same sometimes happens with new atheists who are mad at the world for telling them "the big lie", same with political converts. I'd recommend not drowning yourself in one aspect of the world so much that it causes irrational rebounds. I'm guilty myself sometimes but as long as you realize it, you can be somewhat inoculated against it.

        9 votes
  9. [5]
    Merry
    Link
    For the longest time in my adult life, I fancied the idea of getting a motorcycle but thought the risk was too dangerous and not worth it. Then I discovered /r/motocamping and am scheduled to...

    For the longest time in my adult life, I fancied the idea of getting a motorcycle but thought the risk was too dangerous and not worth it. Then I discovered /r/motocamping and am scheduled to begin my riding safety course in a few weeks. Just the idea of packing up all my camp gear and heading out on a dual-sport for dispersed camping on Bureau of Land Management land has me excited. I think just logging off from the internet and disconnecting from those dopamine feedback loops I find myself in would be a "breath of fresh air".

    9 votes
    1. the_funky_buddha
      Link Parent
      Welcome. Coincidentally since first posting this morning, I rode my motorcycle to a nearby walking trail and took a literal hike which greatly improved my mood along with the morning workout. I...

      Welcome. Coincidentally since first posting this morning, I rode my motorcycle to a nearby walking trail and took a literal hike which greatly improved my mood along with the morning workout. I follow /r/motocamping as well, it's a good resource plus /r/stealthcamping, /r/motorcycles and /r/fixxit. I'm a fairly new rider also but grew up on dirtbikes so was an easy transition. Yes, motorcycles are more dangerous than cars but according to stats, it's usually the ones who drink and ride, go way too fast and those who don't ride with helmet and other safety gear. If you do those things and ride defensively, a lot of risk can be greatly mitigated.

      Even if you don't want to go full camping, just riding to nearby hiking trails is a good stress reliever. A cheap tailbag that can be used as a backpack is a great thing to have if you're riding to trails. I've yet to get good camping gear so motohiking suffices for now while also being cheaper and less hassle.

      5 votes
    2. [3]
      HotPants
      Link Parent
      I thoroughly recommend reading proficient motorcycling, and eventually taking a few advanced courses.

      I thoroughly recommend reading proficient motorcycling, and eventually taking a few advanced courses.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        Merry
        Link Parent
        Thanks! I will give that book a read. When I was taking flying lessons, I found it helpful to read The Killing Zone which detailed various airplane accidents and why they occurred and how to...

        Thanks! I will give that book a read. When I was taking flying lessons, I found it helpful to read The Killing Zone which detailed various airplane accidents and why they occurred and how to prevent them, so something similar in that vein to promote safety is always welcome.

        And yeah, I will be taking safety courses throughout this year and next as I familiarize myself with riding. I plan on getting a CB500X as my first bike or a KLR650 if I can find a decent used one.

        2 votes
        1. HotPants
          Link Parent
          Proficient motorcycling is all about safety. It is fantastic for older folks with prior road experience. I send always send a copy to any friends or family members considering riding.

          Proficient motorcycling is all about safety. It is fantastic for older folks with prior road experience. I send always send a copy to any friends or family members considering riding.

          3 votes
  10. Jepe
    Link
    My point of view on the Middle East. Most of us westerners have heard this (too many times), "war is part of their lives and has been for millennia". This is a tremendous lie, and one that makes...

    My point of view on the Middle East. Most of us westerners have heard this (too many times), "war is part of their lives and has been for millennia". This is a tremendous lie, and one that makes us look at the people from the region in an unhuman way. To start, the Islam does not condemn other religions: it embraces them, and accepts the message of the different prophets as being from the same god. During the 7th century, the Caliphate spread from Portugal to India, encompassing Muslims, Christians and Hindus. The key for any empire that was stable for more than a few decades was their diversity and coexistence.

    What we see nowadays, is the result of western meddling (firstly with the British empire in Afghanistan, the meddling of the Brits and Americans with Iran in the 50s, and the invasion of Iraq by the Americans in 2003). Sectarianism has become more and more predominant, leading to more and more conflict.

    This is a very brief summary of these two articles that I recommend you to read. It really enlightened me on a history I knew very little about.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/22/the-war-for-islam-sunni-shiite-iraq-syria/

    https://time.com/5764119/middle-east-war-history/

    9 votes
  11. [21]
    Kuromantis
    (edited )
    Link
    Just for the sake of it, what would you define as recent? But anyway, I used to believe referring to cis people and fictitious characters who crossdress for fun as "traps" was fine because if...

    Just for the sake of it, what would you define as recent?

    But anyway, I used to believe referring to cis people and fictitious characters who crossdress for fun as "traps" was fine because if another cis person says they're hot they'll take it to mean they're good at crossdressing. This definition of a "trap" deliberately excludes trans people because they very blatantly don't dress counter to their AGAB for fun, they do it for people to see them how they want to be seen. I even argued with someone here on Tildes over it and they understood my point, so I felt my logic was sound.

    So about a month ago some trans dude made a post on r/MensLib talking about some things trans men face and ended with a "feel free to ask any questions."

    So (among other questions), I asked how trans people felt about the term and included that opinion and stressed trans people shouldn't be referred to as such and noone bought that explanation.

    After thinking about it, I realized that referring to these people who are entirely harmless with the same term that you use for mousetraps, honey fly traps and generally dangerous things is fundamentally very contradictory.

    Secondly, I used to find the idea of a "state mandated GF/SO" pretty amusing and sometimes found it unfortunate that an SO couldn't be a human right that's guaranteed to people because the state assigning relationships to people like welfare is by nature very unethical. Now that I think of it, arranged marriage and slavery aren't that distant from the idea of a state-mandated-gf and I take the misogyny in the idea more seriously.

    8 votes
    1. Macil
      Link Parent
      ContraPoints, a trans woman, had a great video on the subject "Are Traps Gay?".

      ContraPoints, a trans woman, had a great video on the subject "Are Traps Gay?".

      8 votes
    2. kfwyre
      Link Parent
      I didn't really have a set timeframe in mind. I'm good with people determining "recent" as it applies to them, even moreso after reading @AnthonyB's fantastic comment about gradual change.

      Just for the sake of it, what would you define as recent?

      I didn't really have a set timeframe in mind. I'm good with people determining "recent" as it applies to them, even moreso after reading @AnthonyB's fantastic comment about gradual change.

      4 votes
    3. [2]
      nothis
      Link Parent
      Wait, what in the world is that? "GF" as in "girlfriend"?

      state mandated GF/SO

      Wait, what in the world is that? "GF" as in "girlfriend"?

      2 votes
      1. Kuromantis
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yes, it's exactly what you think it is. It comes from incel spaces where some preach the idea sincerely (unsurprisingly, also dear god) but in my experience it's occasionally memed about in other...

        Yes, it's exactly what you think it is. It comes from incel spaces where some preach the idea sincerely (unsurprisingly, also dear god) but in my experience it's occasionally memed about in other 'terminally online' semi-political spaces in my experience purely because it's such a wacky idea and the people memeing are usually also quite lonely and often mostly men so we are also the target audience.

        7 votes
    4. [16]
      FlippantGod
      Link Parent
      I'm not sure I follow... Isn't excluding trans folk from the term "trap" the whole point? It doesn't refer to them, it is used for cross dressing (by your definition). In fact, calling a trans...

      I'm not sure I follow... Isn't excluding trans folk from the term "trap" the whole point? It doesn't refer to them, it is used for cross dressing (by your definition). In fact, calling a trans person a trap is quite rude and sparked a large amount of controversy in the anime community?

      Your understanding was that calling harmless crossdressing a "trap" is bad because it associates the act with something generally dangerous, but the individual in question doesn't identify as the gender they are dressed as, unlike a trans person.

      My understanding of the definition of the word trap is a bit different than your in any case, but I haven't used it in over a year because it feels like we can't come to an understanding on the specifics, and whether or not it is harmful. I just don't track your logic here, so I felt the need to ask.

      1 vote
      1. [16]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [15]
          FlippantGod
          Link Parent
          Alright, I really agree with the first point. But do you make a distinction when there actually is deception? IMO the term trap is properly used with regard to anime characters created with the...

          Alright, I really agree with the first point. But do you make a distinction when there actually is deception? IMO the term trap is properly used with regard to anime characters created with the explicit purpose of a "gotcha" moment with the audience, and aren't a portrayal of crossdressing or trans characters. It certainly might be the case that this is harmful to both of those groups, and relies on a social stigma of "feeling wrongness" when an attractive character is actually a "trap". But how else can we refer to these tropes in the material, where this is the artist/author's intent? Just pretend it doesn't exist? Classify them all as either crossdressers or trans and pretend it is a sign of inclusion and wholesomeness in anime?

          Edit: I think I agree with your second point as well, although I struggle to parse some of the examples. I do think that you are right, and the term hinges on recognizing where an individual's gender is ambiguous and possibly not their biological gender, and expressing it, which certainly is hurtful for trans people. This is a really good reason for not using it.

          3 votes
          1. [10]
            Gaywallet
            Link Parent
            It appears you see the damage that referring to people with the wrong terminology can have, and you understand that the word 'trap' is itself problematic as it implies deception. So I'm stuck...

            It appears you see the damage that referring to people with the wrong terminology can have, and you understand that the word 'trap' is itself problematic as it implies deception.

            So I'm stuck wondering why you're having trouble moving on from the word? Why the resistance? If you recognize the word can be used improperly, why do you defend when it is used 'properly' when the term itself is problematic for implying deception?

            Try to generalize a bit here. Imagine a show had started using a problematic word to define people who happened to resemble people of middle eastern descent. Perhaps they started referring to everyone who fit a certain role as a terrorist. Even if, in every anime, these individuals happened to perfectly fit the role defined, do you not see how the only representation of this class of people through this lens is not damaging?

            The word is loaded just as much as the representation is and because of this, there's push-back against using terminology, regardless of how correct it is, because it paints the picture of an entire group of people through a very specific lens (deception).


            As an aside, you may want to look into the very strict broadcasting laws which exist in Japan and other Asian countries. In addition to disallowing nudity and other purist standards you typically see in the west, there's additional cultural components. It is widely understood by people who deeply understand Asian cultures that crossdressing is a way to expose the existence of transgender individuals to the world, because designing and displaying the characters as transgender is difficult or impossible under current law. Because of these additional restrictions it's almost impossible to tell if the creator intended any characters to be considered transgender or not. In many documented cases, the lens through which they are being restrictively defined is actually already a twisted lens in order to provide visibility to people who are being forcibly removed from public view.

            9 votes
            1. [9]
              FlippantGod
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              I love what you have written about broadcasting laws in Japan! I would even go so far as to say that traps as a "gatcha" are a better form of representation than earlier anime's portrayal, because...

              I love what you have written about broadcasting laws in Japan! I would even go so far as to say that traps as a "gatcha" are a better form of representation than earlier anime's portrayal, because the "gatcha" plays mostly to the audience's social stigmas and not "in-universe", although it varies from work to work.

              The reason I am hung up on it, though, is because I feel the usage is actually negative, and we need mechanisms with which to discuss that. If the proper use is harmful, then that's what it is. Call it a trap so we can all acknowledge what the author is doing, and what that means for the audience. Anyone can choose to form their own conclusions about characters, but I would argue that with proper usage, and if we manage to make anime itself a more inclusive medium, then we can have actual trans representations and the term "trap" will fall out of use, unless perhaps it stops being negative and just a more positive "gotcha", should societies ideas of gender identity and sexual orientation also manage to progress.

              Edit: basically, I don't think of the word itself as harmful ala mousetrap, only harmful because it is used to abuse trans people. However, I do believe it represents something unhealthy in anime, although you make the case it could be a way of circumventing broadcast legislature. But if the social stigma was removed (and it was not used cruelly, which it presently is), IMO the word trap would be positive, and that would be more important than any association with mousetraps or something like that.

              3 votes
              1. [8]
                Gaywallet
                Link Parent
                Okay but do you not see how others see it as harmful, especially those which are already under extreme pressures from society, such as transgender individuals? Why are you so resistant to...

                IMO the word trap would be positive

                Okay but do you not see how others see it as harmful, especially those which are already under extreme pressures from society, such as transgender individuals? Why are you so resistant to modifying your language to their benefit? They are perceiving a harm from this word and you are repeatedly insisting it's not harmful. I understand your point, but can we not be helpful to those who deserve or need it?

                5 votes
                1. [2]
                  Kuromantis
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  The way I understood it, he believes the meaning/usage of term "trap" meaning could be modified so that either: Trans people would never be referred to as traps again which to him would mean the...

                  Why are you so resistant to modifying your language to their benefit?

                  The way I understood it, he believes the meaning/usage of term "trap" meaning could be modified so that either:

                  Trans people would never be referred to as traps again which to him would mean the term would no longer harm Trans people because it is no longer applied to them, and thus no longer be harmful.

                  "That character is a trap."

                  "That term is transphobic because it describes Trans people as deceptive and dangerous to cis people and thus shouldn't be used, also it denies them their identity."

                  "That term shouldn't be applied to Trans people for the reasons you describe, and if it isn't applied to Trans people, it won't harm them anymore."

                  "Oh, okay."

                  (This is basically what I used to believe and argued with someone here about.)

                  For the term's negative meanings to be preserved but it's application to change for it's negative baggage to be applied to the character themselves, perhaps like the term "uncle tom", which is to say that the term could be used to describe the femboy-looking characters themselves as negative deception and shame-based depictions of femboys, GNC (almost always) men, Trans women, etc.

                  "That character is a trap."

                  "That term is transphobic because it describes Trans people as deceptive and dangerous to cis people and thus shouldn't be used, also it denies them their identity."

                  "Those characters themselves are negative transphobic interpretations of Trans people, femboys, etc. that are based on those people being seen as deceptive and dangerous to cis people. Positive interpretations of femboys, Trans people, etc. aren't traps."

                  "Oh, okay."

                  The main problems I see are:

                  Changing the meaning of language is inherently hard, LGBT people creating dozens of gender labels they mostly share among themselves (which are mostly unknown or deemed as bad when they leave their circles) and get to define from scratch is easier than to change the meaning of a well-established cultural trope used by many people in anime, including transphobes who would probably reply with a Yeschad meme if you told them referring to Trans people as "traps" hurts them.

                  Changing the meaning of language takes time (usually measured in years or decades), which most Trans people simply don't and won't feel like waiting for, something which you (@Gaywallet) have said many times.

                  8 votes
                  1. FlippantGod
                    Link Parent
                    Wow. This is really insightful and says more, more clearly, than I managed to get across in several long comments. Thank you also for explaining some potential problems, which I confess I haven't...

                    Wow. This is really insightful and says more, more clearly, than I managed to get across in several long comments.

                    Thank you also for explaining some potential problems, which I confess I haven't had the foresight to consider myself.

                    5 votes
                2. [5]
                  FlippantGod
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  I have gone above and beyond modifying my language. I have self-censored myself for the sake of others. But I truly believe that these are important parts of anime for the anime community and the...

                  I have gone above and beyond modifying my language. I have self-censored myself for the sake of others.

                  But I truly believe that these are important parts of anime for the anime community and the larger trans community to be able to discuss, and self-censoring won't achieve the desired result. I would be extremely surprised if I was unable to have this exact discussion with a trans person, because the word was too hurtful. And honestly, I'm not sure I would want to speak with such a person. As sad as it is, survivors of rape at some point generally need to come to terms with what has been done to them, and be able to speak about it should they choose to, in their recovery. Other people need to be able to speak about it too.

                  So it seems self evident that abuse is what cannot be tolerated, and self-censoring the portion of the community that is fully willing to accommodate those subject to abuse, is not a clever fix-all or even a good idea.

                  Edit: needed to figure out how to quote

                  IMO the word trap would be positive

                  Do you feel differently? The context here is a hypothetical future where the word is not applied malignantly, anime has healthy representation of trans people, and cultural and societal ideas regarding sexual identity and orientation have shifted such that that the deception "gotcha" I associate with the creator's intent behind a trap is considered positive; i.e. the audience is simply amused that they mistook the gender/orientation of a character, and their attraction is not at all a bad thing.

                  Maybe I should have said "could" be positive, to keep it even more tentative and hypothetical?

                  1 vote
                  1. [4]
                    Gaywallet
                    Link Parent
                    No one is implying conversation cannot happen? Some people are just asking for the use of a specific term to be stopped or minimized. I have had no issue discussing the terms with you here when...

                    No one is implying conversation cannot happen? Some people are just asking for the use of a specific term to be stopped or minimized. I have had no issue discussing the terms with you here when using words like 'crossdressing' and through explaining censorship law.

                    But this is a jump of logic, anyhow, as what @kuromantis said in his original post was the following:

                    I used to believe referring to cis people and fictitious characters who crossdress for fun as "traps" was fine

                    We are talking about the casual use of this term to generalize about certain situations. We're not talking about the use of this term in a deep discussion about the problems present in anime and Asian cultural expectations/norms.


                    As sad as it is, survivors of rape at some point generally need to come to terms with what has been done to them, and be able to speak about it should they choose to, in their recovery.

                    What? What does this have to do with anything? People who've been raped aren't asking for you to stop calling rapists rapists. This is about a minority group which does not wish to be called by a word which they feel is a slur or derogatory.

                    4 votes
                    1. [3]
                      FlippantGod
                      Link Parent
                      The discussion was not about from calling trans people "traps". We all agreed this is abuse. I was asking about OP's phrasing. Then we discussed my definition of the word, and what I see as proper...

                      The discussion was not about from calling trans people "traps". We all agreed this is abuse. I was asking about OP's phrasing. Then we discussed my definition of the word, and what I see as proper usage, and if it is appropriate to use when it is a delicate subject with a history of being used for verbal abuse. I brought up rape only because I wanted to demonstrate the importance of being able to speak about unambiguously bad things.

                      4 votes
                      1. [2]
                        Gaywallet
                        Link Parent
                        Thank you for clarifying your intent and feelings on using 'trap' to refer to real people, this was not how I read the discussion.

                        Thank you for clarifying your intent and feelings on using 'trap' to refer to real people, this was not how I read the discussion.

                        7 votes
          2. [4]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. [3]
              FlippantGod
              Link Parent
              Hey, I really appreciate your comment. This, more than any other I've seen on the topic, really seems to express how I feel about the obtuseness and misuse of language. Kuromantis has proposed...

              Hey, I really appreciate your comment. This, more than any other I've seen on the topic, really seems to express how I feel about the obtuseness and misuse of language.

              Kuromantis has proposed using more friendly language, which is a discussion in and of itself. I don't have a clear answer to put forward though, just a general feeling of helplessness as more proactive parts of the community come to conclusions on how something complex should be handled.

              These questions you have raised on what exactly I consider a trap, is exactly what I would like to be having conversations about. Author's intent versus a character's, and even how a healthy and inclusive community could subvert the author's intentions entirely through fan works and popular takes on a character's sense of identity.

              These are interesting topics I believe are relevant to the trans community, and making it tough to talk about to avoid stepping on toes due to how mean some people can be feels like admitting defeat.

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                Kuromantis
                Link Parent
                Just to be clear about this, I'm saying this is what many progressives online do, I myself am not actually that sure how I feel about this approach to language.

                Kuromantis has proposed using more friendly language, which is a discussion in and of itself.

                Just to be clear about this, I'm saying this is what many progressives online do, I myself am not actually that sure how I feel about this approach to language.

                2 votes
                1. FlippantGod
                  Link Parent
                  Sorry. You are right, I misrepresented what you wrote. I also talk about it somewhat negatively, but can't fully make up my mind on the idea.

                  Sorry. You are right, I misrepresented what you wrote. I also talk about it somewhat negatively, but can't fully make up my mind on the idea.

          3. Kuromantis
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            The most prominent solution, at least in a large share of progressive communities is usually just swapping the term out for another one, often more affirmative one. (See the terms "plus sized" as...

            But how else can we refer to these tropes in the material, where this is the artist/author's intent? Just pretend it doesn't exist? Classify them all as either crossdressers or trans and pretend it is a sign of inclusion and wholesomeness in anime?

            The most prominent solution, at least in a large share of progressive communities is usually just swapping the term out for another one, often more affirmative one. (See the terms "plus sized" as opposed to "fat" or "overweight" or "neurodiverse" as opposed to "neurodivergent" or "neurodevelopmental disorder"). In this case the term some advocate using is otoko-no-ko, although IMO replacing a short and slang-y term with a longer, more wordplay-based one (according to Wiki) will almost inherently be an uphill battle, so another one or 2 syllable term would almost certainly be an easier move. (Although this kind of solution is not a silver bullet nor uncontroversial.)

            2 votes
  12. [3]
    PhantomBand
    Link
    I've never really thought much about romantic things and always just kinda shrugged when I heard love songs, people talking about relationships, etc. But nowadays I'd actually really love to have...

    I've never really thought much about romantic things and always just kinda shrugged when I heard love songs, people talking about relationships, etc.

    But nowadays I'd actually really love to have a gf. Not that I'll act on that though, my social anxiety is way too bad.

    8 votes
    1. [2]
      lou
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      There are lots of boys and girls out there that would love nothing more than a cute shy (or "socially anxious") partner. You'd be surprised with the kinks and preferences people have. Looking for...

      There are lots of boys and girls out there that would love nothing more than a cute shy (or "socially anxious") partner. You'd be surprised with the kinks and preferences people have. Looking for "shy or socially anxious" is actually quite common. As a deeply introverted man, I can assure you that I used that to my benefit numerous times.

      7 votes
  13. [7]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    That I should stay married.

    That I should stay married.

    8 votes
    1. [6]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      I'm so sorry -- that sounds rough. Hope you're okay.

      I'm so sorry -- that sounds rough.

      Hope you're okay.

      8 votes
      1. [5]
        Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        I don't want to get into to much detail on a public forum, but yes I'm doing ok. Better than ok really. Every day after the decision point has felt better and made me feel more confident in what...

        I don't want to get into to much detail on a public forum, but yes I'm doing ok. Better than ok really. Every day after the decision point has felt better and made me feel more confident in what I've chosen. The only regrets I have are that I didn't recognize what my emotions were telling me sooner, and that I should have made this decision much earlier. (10yr relationship, married 8)

        10 votes
        1. [3]
          Gaywallet
          Link Parent
          If it helps, I was in a 10yr relationship that should have ended 3-5 years in. In fact, we both tried to end it at multiple times but convinced the other to stay together. It was a great...

          If it helps, I was in a 10yr relationship that should have ended 3-5 years in. In fact, we both tried to end it at multiple times but convinced the other to stay together. It was a great experience for us both, and I think it had to be as long as it was for me to recognize and understand things about myself and finally learn that it wasn't healthy for either of us at that point and we had to move on and keep growing.

          8 votes
          1. Adys
            Link Parent
            Whew, preach. My numbers were 7 / should have ended at 2 but absolutely the same. It gave me so much room to understand myself and I’m a better person for it. But it sucked having to date again...

            Whew, preach. My numbers were 7 / should have ended at 2 but absolutely the same.

            It gave me so much room to understand myself and I’m a better person for it. But it sucked having to date again and find out that the entire dating world was far more difficult, both because of my age and because Things Had Changed in the world.

            8 votes
          2. Omnicrola
            Link Parent
            I find myself in a similar mindset. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's easy to identify all the markers and flags along the way that should have indicated to me that it should have ended. And at...

            I find myself in a similar mindset. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's easy to identify all the markers and flags along the way that should have indicated to me that it should have ended. And at the same time, I've grown a lot and learned a lot about myself. Therapy has helped me better understand myself and my own needs, and how to take care of myself better. Boundaries are a struggle as someone who has co-dependent tendencies.

            7 votes
        2. lou
          Link Parent
          People rarely end relationships when they actually should. The ship must sink a bit before we admit to ourselves we should probably jump. It is only human.

          People rarely end relationships when they actually should. The ship must sink a bit before we admit to ourselves we should probably jump. It is only human.

          7 votes
  14. [5]
    rosco
    Link
    There are a lot of serious ones here so I'm going to jump in with u/streblo and go with food. Big covid discoveries for me were that contrary to what I believed spring roles are delicious. I'm not...

    There are a lot of serious ones here so I'm going to jump in with u/streblo and go with food.

    Big covid discoveries for me were that contrary to what I believed spring roles are delicious. I'm not sure why but when I was younger I found the texture to be too akin to a condom. Now I eat them at least once a week. 10/10 delicious dinner option.

    6 votes
    1. [4]
      Thra11
      Link Parent
      I assume we're talking about the Vietnamese-style spring rolls wrapped in very thin, translucent rice paper, not the crispy Chinese-style ones?

      I assume we're talking about the Vietnamese-style spring rolls wrapped in very thin, translucent rice paper, not the crispy Chinese-style ones?

      10 votes
      1. [2]
        streblo
        Link Parent
        What kind of condoms are you buying?!

        What kind of condoms are you buying?!

        12 votes
        1. joplin
          Link Parent
          I so tempted to mark this reply as "Exemplary".

          I so tempted to mark this reply as "Exemplary".

          5 votes
      2. rosco
        Link Parent
        Yes, I've always been a fan of the Chinese-style but I actually prefer the Vietnamese ones now.

        Yes, I've always been a fan of the Chinese-style but I actually prefer the Vietnamese ones now.

        2 votes
  15. adi
    Link
    I'm really close to changing my mind about monorepos.

    I'm really close to changing my mind about monorepos.

    2 votes