I've not seen a single comment that felt like bot behaviour to be honest. So I'm curious what you saw. Your description doesn't really fit anything I've read.
I’ve been noticing some comments lately that feel a lot like bot behavior.
I've not seen a single comment that felt like bot behaviour to be honest. So I'm curious what you saw. Your description doesn't really fit anything I've read.
To be honest I don’t see a point in this thread if you’re unable or unwilling to present any kind of evidence. It’s the definition of generating FUD. Nothing productive can even be discussed...
To be honest I don’t see a point in this thread if you’re unable or unwilling to present any kind of evidence. It’s the definition of generating FUD. Nothing productive can even be discussed without concrete examples.
Yes, this is why the correct advice is to send whatever evidence you have to Deimos and let him handle it. Doing the equivalent of a public trial would be no fun for anyone.
Yes, this is why the correct advice is to send whatever evidence you have to Deimos and let him handle it. Doing the equivalent of a public trial would be no fun for anyone.
I'd heard FUD all over the place intermittently for years and never bothered really look it up outside of the obvious context clues. Something something gestures widely / the state of the world. I...
I'd heard FUD all over the place intermittently for years and never bothered really look it up outside of the obvious context clues.
Something something gestures widely / the state of the world. I looked it up.
Tildes is still invite only. Reporting it can have the mods/admin look into it and determine if there is spam-like behavior. For he above reasons, ban evasion isn't really that doable either. The...
Tildes is still invite only. Reporting it can have the mods/admin look into it and determine if there is spam-like behavior.
For he above reasons, ban evasion isn't really that doable either. The best exploit is using all your invites on alts and signing those up, But the admin can see who invited what and stomp that out just as quickly.
The emdash makes me wonder if this is very self-referential performance art. Either way, I agree with @pete_the_paper_boat - not something I’ve particularly noticed as an issue, but one that I’m...
The emdash makes me wonder if this is very self-referential performance art.
Either way, I agree with @pete_the_paper_boat - not something I’ve particularly noticed as an issue, but one that I’m sure could be privately reported to the people in charge if there were specific concerns.
I love em dashes so much; they feel like a written breath between sentences :’( I’ll need to convince all my devices to stop replacing a double dash with an em dash -- surely that’ll assuage...
I love em dashes so much; they feel like a written breath between sentences :’(
I’ll need to convince all my devices to stop replacing a double dash with an em dash -- surely that’ll assuage everyone’s concerns.
I truly am heartbroken that my efforts to access to beautiful em dash through the extra symbols page of my Android phone's keyboard and long-pressing the "-", or googling "em dash" and copying the...
I truly am heartbroken that my efforts to access to beautiful em dash through the extra symbols page of my Android phone's keyboard and long-pressing the "-", or googling "em dash" and copying the first instance of it I see in the search results on my desktop, now can possibly make some people think I am a bot. 😭 I have thought of doing a -- instead, but it just doesn't feel the same! I've decided I will just let some people think I am a bot. Glory to the em dash. ✨🙏—🙏✨
Having come from the Jurassic aka typewriter era, the -- is second nature to me. I like the em dash visually, but it would take effort to learn to do naturally without (IMO) great benefit.
Having come from the Jurassic aka typewriter era, the -- is second nature to me. I like the em dash visually, but it would take effort to learn to do naturally without (IMO) great benefit.
No wonder---the “equivalent” to an em dash in hyphens (what you might call “short” or “single” dashes) is three of them, not two. :P (Two stand for the en dash.) Somewhat frustratingly, the rules...
I have thought of doing a -- instead, but it just doesn't feel the same!
No wonder---the “equivalent” to an em dash in hyphens (what you might call “short” or “single” dashes) is three of them, not two. :P
Somewhat frustratingly, the rules around using them (e.g. whether to place a space before and after, or which of the two “lengths” to use when) differ in my native German, which is why you’ll probably almost never see me use either truly correctly. Maybe singular hyphens, though.
General case I fully agree, but rightly or wrongly it’s well known that people think of it as an LLM tell at this point. Choosing to drop one in the middle of a sentence about subtleties that give...
General case I fully agree, but rightly or wrongly it’s well known that people think of it as an LLM tell at this point. Choosing to drop one in the middle of a sentence about subtleties that give away bots is pretty on the nose.
Just for complete clarity: I’m not saying the original post is or isn’t LLM generated, I’m saying the choice to drop an emdash in that particular sentence genuinely raised a chuckle when I saw it....
Just for complete clarity: I’m not saying the original post is or isn’t LLM generated, I’m saying the choice to drop an emdash in that particular sentence genuinely raised a chuckle when I saw it. I was half expecting OP’s answer to be along the lines of “haha yeah, that was deliberate, wondered if anyone would pick it up” (my money was actually on human written but deliberately self-referential), but “nah, just a coincidence, that’s how I write” would’ve made sense too. Given their actual replies, I’m confident we’re being messed with, probably good-naturedly.
If you were actually making a more subtle point that I’ve totally missed, sorry about that! My inner monologue is four levels of meta deep thanks to this thread and I may have got myself tied up in it.
No I just dislike the emdash hate, no subtler points today. Just a pet peeve. Based on another answer I do get more "messing with" vibes (the can't take a joke" line) but I am hopeful they're just...
No I just dislike the emdash hate, no subtler points today. Just a pet peeve.
Based on another answer I do get more "messing with" vibes (the can't take a joke" line) but I am hopeful they're just a bit focused on this
lol I’m the same with my overuse of parantheses. But luckily my stream of consciousness is too rambly to be considered AI (at least I hope so) Also, I’ve recently noticed that I could replace like...
lol I’m the same with my overuse of parantheses. But luckily my stream of consciousness is too rambly to be considered AI (at least I hope so)
Also, I’ve recently noticed that I could replace like 50% of my parentheses with just new sentences. That occurred to me when I wanted to add a parentheses into a parentheses)
Ugh, I kind of hate when that happens, I just start to question the whole text... What is really the thing I'm trying to say (and what is just a clarification or similar)? Sometimes I just delete...
Ugh, I kind of hate when that happens, I just start to question the whole text...
What is really the thing I'm trying to say (and what is just a clarification or similar)?
Sometimes I just delete everything and not only the ()!
What? No they're not. Sharks are extremely rough, like sandpaper. If you see a shark, DO NOT LICK IT. It is not a smooth and pleasant and oddly flavorful experience; it will abrade your tongue....
What? No they're not. Sharks are extremely rough, like sandpaper.
If you see a shark, DO NOT LICK IT. It is not a smooth and pleasant and oddly flavorful experience; it will abrade your tongue. All the experts and the government agree on this.
Any reputable shark tourism company will have tongue sheeths on hand to protect you from abrasive dermal denticles. Jacques Cousteau was an early success story with his aqua-tongue.
Any reputable shark tourism company will have tongue sheeths on hand to protect you from abrasive dermal denticles. Jacques Cousteau was an early success story with his aqua-tongue.
“The ocean keeps its sharks as the mountains keep their heights—untamed, and awaiting the bold tongue.”
They're safe to pet "with" the scales, but idk if I'd call it smooth necessarily. I certainly haven't pet most shark species, nor pet any recently though
They're safe to pet "with" the scales, but idk if I'd call it smooth necessarily. I certainly haven't pet most shark species, nor pet any recently though
True, again it's been years and I only tried bamboo, and a few skates/rays. I want to believe they're velvety smooth one way so my memories are very biased :)
True, again it's been years and I only tried bamboo, and a few skates/rays. I want to believe they're velvety smooth one way so my memories are very biased :)
Here's What It Feels Like To Pet A Live Shark | WLRN So everything says sandpaper or pumice (but rough enough to tear skin) against the denticles, but I thought oh this article will tell me. Their...
I have touched several sharks, and if I recall correctly, it's Nurse Sharks that people think of as quite smooth in one direction and quite rough in the other. They are very smooth if you touch...
I have touched several sharks, and if I recall correctly, it's Nurse Sharks that people think of as quite smooth in one direction and quite rough in the other. They are very smooth if you touch them nose-to-tail but very rough tail-to-nose.
I got it! Personally I was hoping to reply all day with rigorous evidence about the rough texture of sharks, but in our metaphorical comedy duo here on Tildes we have an apparent abundance of...
I got it! Personally I was hoping to reply all day with rigorous evidence about the rough texture of sharks, but in our metaphorical comedy duo here on Tildes we have an apparent abundance of straight men and a deficit of funny men. Ah well
I don’t think this is a significant threat tildes faces. Consider compassionate interpretation. Maybe that’s just how some people communicate. As an aside, whenever a topic like this pops up...
I don’t think this is a significant threat tildes faces. Consider compassionate interpretation. Maybe that’s just how some people communicate.
As an aside, whenever a topic like this pops up referencing some nameless user’s comments I always think “god I hope this isn’t about me.”
Without examples, I’m limited in what I can say. But, two thoughts: A lot of people write more formally here than one may be used to. AI text often has that same formality. Tildes is less...
Without examples, I’m limited in what I can say. But, two thoughts:
A lot of people write more formally here than one may be used to. AI text often has that same formality.
Tildes is less U.S.-centric (low bar, but it’s definitely there), so there are Tilderinos from other countries who may have a very different context on an issue or point than the Americans on the site.
IMO, those are genuine humans trying to make sense of the world, and discuss it with their peers. People often give each other the benefit of the doubt; they don’t know that someone is a bad...
IMO, those are genuine humans trying to make sense of the world, and discuss it with their peers. People often give each other the benefit of the doubt; they don’t know that someone is a bad actor, just that someone said or did a thing, and now the computer is recommending their work.
Equally, there are people with genuinely different political ideologies (note: not red vs blue team sports, but what policies they believe in, and the values they uphold) around these parts. That heterogeneity is a bit weird on the modern internet, but it’s more representative of the world pre-algorithmic slop packing. They aren’t bots, they just disagree with you.
The thing is I'm from those part of the world where open internet discussion is infected with bots for a long time and it got me trained in noticing this suspicious behavior very well.
The thing is I'm from those part of the world where open internet discussion is infected with bots for a long time and it got me trained in noticing this suspicious behavior very well.
Fair, but I’d push back lightly on calling it suspicious. It’s all contextual: walking closely behind people in lockstep is suspicious behaviour at night, in dark alleys, but it’s just what you do...
Fair, but I’d push back lightly on calling it suspicious. It’s all contextual: walking closely behind people in lockstep is suspicious behaviour at night, in dark alleys, but it’s just what you do when you’re salsa dancing.
Tildes is more of a salsa dancing studio than a murder alley :) I would never advocate for someone to drop their guard in all circumstances, but for this safe space at least, I’ve found that assuming the best in people normally works out (and when it doesn’t, they get dogpiled anyways).
Oh! Also, if someone has been inviting bots, I expect that their whole invite tree will get pruned off the site, so Deimos is really holding all the cards here at the end of the day :3
I'd also add that there are some folks here who engage in skepticism as like a philosophy or method. And at times, at least from my perspective, it can feel like it's done to the point of...
I'd also add that there are some folks here who engage in skepticism as like a philosophy or method. And at times, at least from my perspective, it can feel like it's done to the point of contrarianism.
But that doesn't mean those users are trolling. They merely disagree or at least are trying to get people to better explain their positions and reasons. To provide evidence, if necessary. After all, sometimes people (all people, not just those on Tildes) make claims based on dubious grounds. Not even maliciously, but simply from a place of ignorance. They heard or saw something somewhere from someone. Who hasn't done that?
Plus, we are actually trying to have discussions here. This place wouldn't be anywhere as fun and interesting if it were just people saying, "Agreed" over and over in every thread. Or not commenting, but instead simply upvoting and moving on. Or disagreeing but saying nothing. This would be a really quiet place. So in some ways, those folks who are disagreeing or questioning are helping to generate and maintain discussion.
I don't doubt that, but also: false positives are a thing. I'm on a secret sub on reddit (one of the few places on there that remain tolerable) that has around 400 users and I've gotten to know...
The thing is I'm from those part of the world where open internet discussion is infected with bots for a long time and it got me trained in noticing this suspicious behavior very well.
I don't doubt that, but also: false positives are a thing.
I'm on a secret sub on reddit (one of the few places on there that remain tolerable) that has around 400 users and I've gotten to know some of them well enough to be certain they aren't bots. But the times are rough and people who go through rough things can lose their ability to be constructive. One user in particular has developed the adamant belief that the current US president is a good person who genuinely cares and tries to help out the small guy like himself, and who follows the constitution. All it took for him to block me was a friendly remark that due process is explicitly mentioned in the constitution. And I don't mean "friendly" in a sarcastic way - I was being genuinely friendly. He would rather block and deny than face and deal with the cognitive dissonance. A truly nice, good guy in many ways.
It makes no sense but it is what it is.
Here on Tildes, I've been happy to see spam accounts very efficiently called out and blocked.
'Bots' are given that behaviour because it resembles how humans behave, and humans are led to imitate it in turn. The behaviour itself is normal. There's never really a way to know 100% whether an...
'Bots' are given that behaviour because it resembles how humans behave, and humans are led to imitate it in turn. The behaviour itself is normal.
There's never really a way to know 100% whether an user is acting maliciously or not. Trying to play it like Werewolf is a fool's errand, and I'd argue it does more harm to this space than good.
Honestly, I think the Tildes community is not large enough to be worth it to have budget for having paid trolls or bots. And I'm glad that it isn't. When I see a comment of at least five...
Honestly, I think the Tildes community is not large enough to be worth it to have budget for having paid trolls or bots. And I'm glad that it isn't.
When I see a comment of at least five paragraphs, I sometimes raise my eyebrow thinking it might have been a bad comment, and then I feel bad for doubting, because what's more likely it was a human who actually took time to write, edit, proofread their comment.
I rarely post, and consider myself fortunate for having gotten access to an account here in the first place - networking is a key skill that I lack. So when I do decide to make an effort post,...
I rarely post, and consider myself fortunate for having gotten access to an account here in the first place - networking is a key skill that I lack. So when I do decide to make an effort post, it'll often be long, and in an area where I feel like I have expertise.
And half the time I feel like posting was a mistake, because the voting system here can be a magnet for anxiety, even if its not as harsh as somewhere like Reddit, Discord, or other social media adjacent sites. But I feel more comfortable trying here, because there's less open hostility when people disagree.
Long posts by people who know the subject well are great. Like little windows into the subject where you learn quite a bit, sometimes it's even info that is not well known. Just the other day I...
it'll often be long, and in an area where I feel like I have expertise.
Long posts by people who know the subject well are great. Like little windows into the subject where you learn quite a bit, sometimes it's even info that is not well known. Just the other day I found one out in the wild, on youtube of all places! It was some bits of info about Pearl Harbor that I hadn't heard before. The video was rubbish, didn't cover what the clickbait title said and some history buffs decided to add to the comments that everyone came to learn.
there's less open hostility when people disagree.
I love that about this place, I can say my opinion and the worst I get is a lengthy explanation as to why it's stupid (in nicer words). I can even ask followup questions to try to understand without being called a troll. Discussion is an actual thing. :D
It's refreshing over those other places where people just say "your dumb/nazi/troll", go off on a meaningless rant at you for daring to have a different opinion even though they can't defend their own, or where mods ban you for unpopular opinions (I'm looking at you r/news).
I get anxiety just reading comments at those other places, the toxicity is so thick. Not so much here. I do get not commenting since I cancel comments a lot. Other places I wouldn't care, but here I feel comments have more weight to them. You can post on Twitter or Reddit and be unsure if anyone ever read it, here it's basically guaranteed. Like yelling at a stadium vs talking in a library. Sometimes you just feel your post will be like yelling in the library, or at least like making fart noises.
Humans do this too. Given we have no evidence or examples, how do we know someone isn't providing some tabloid as evidence, and it's absolutely right to brush those things off. Context and nuance...
like trying to downplay bad actors, saying there’s no real proof they did anything wrong, or pushing the idea that you always have to give them the benefit of the doubt. And when someone pushes back with actual evidence, they just dismiss it or brush it off like it’s fake, basically just trolling.
Humans do this too.
Given we have no evidence or examples, how do we know someone isn't providing some tabloid as evidence, and it's absolutely right to brush those things off.
Context and nuance are difficult on sensitive subjects and you often wind up with people talking past each other. I hate to even bring it up but most people's views on Gaza/Israel is based a lot on which reports they trust. If you're absolutely certain that the UN or Israel can NEVER be trusted, then it doesn't matter how much "proof" is provided. I bring up this extremely difficult subject as an example because it's one where there's 100% evidence of just about ever entity reporting on the war/conflict not fact checking/exaggerating/downplaying/outright lying. It doesn't take bots and malicious actors for people to have disagreements.
So without relevant examples (which I get your hesitation), it's basically impossible to discuss this, which brings me to the logical solution: PM Deimos?
Provide your evidence, let them look into it. Not much of a point to this topic other than I guess your question of "is this allowed" which I believe it's a no, but again that's really a Deimos call anyways.
Tildes is protected from malicious actors and from spammers. They are spotted and removed. Bots is a more difficult question. If the bot doesn't violate rules and norms here then presumably it...
Tildes is protected from malicious actors and from spammers. They are spotted and removed.
Bots is a more difficult question. If the bot doesn't violate rules and norms here then presumably it would just continue.
https://xkcd.com/810 All that aside, I'd prefer to know I'm conversing with actual humans, but at this stage if someone set up an LLM bot with one of the major providers and set it loose here, I'm...
If the bot doesn't violate rules and norms here then presumably it would just continue.
All that aside, I'd prefer to know I'm conversing with actual humans, but at this stage if someone set up an LLM bot with one of the major providers and set it loose here, I'm not sure we'd be able to spot it quickly, depending on the prompting and integration. Known bots that provide useful functions can be great, but they're deterministic. Maybe I'd feel better about a flagged bot account that could be summoned with a keyword? Eh.
I'm here to talk to people. Maybe one day software can graduate to people-ness, but we're not there yet.
Honestly you don't keep them for very long because there are so many. It's not that fun gathering people when half your collection has the same major. Do you know that mushrooms are closer to...
Honestly you don't keep them for very long because there are so many. It's not that fun gathering people when half your collection has the same major. Do you know that mushrooms are closer to animals than they are to plants? I do. Did you know fungi are the humans' primary competitors for food? I. DO They're mostly pleasant but ugh
Honestly I suspect the recent influx is a bit of a "fuck it, I'll take my chances" reaction to the current state of...everything. if anyone could avoid a fairy ring, it would be the mycologists.
I'd question "to what end" for a bot here. There's no karma to build up. You could build a positive reputation and then start posting some wildly offensive or aggressive stuff but then you'd still...
I'd question "to what end" for a bot here. There's no karma to build up. You could build a positive reputation and then start posting some wildly offensive or aggressive stuff but then you'd still get banned like the people who do the same. Same if you spammed. It's not a big audience.
Maybe for the lulz or to field test a bot?
"Paid" trolls definitely doesn't make sense - who's paying people to troll? Where's my check? I could troll! - here.
It would take more dedication than most would want to invest, but slowly manipulating users here comes to mind. There are some users here that I recognize, and a few of them have opinions that I'm...
It would take more dedication than most would want to invest, but slowly manipulating users here comes to mind. There are some users here that I recognize, and a few of them have opinions that I'm more likely to agree with just because they have been reasonable in the past. What happens when one or several such users start slowly pushing more toward fascism? Not all at once, but bit by bit, starting with scenarios that cause internal moral clashes and supporting the one that leans fascist.
It would take human interaction at the start, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else has had a similar idea and only rejected it because of the time it would take.
I think the amount of time and effort that would take would not be something that would be a bot that would be a human actor. Especially for a small site -if someone starts posting fascist things...
I think the amount of time and effort that would take would not be something that would be a bot that would be a human actor. Especially for a small site -if someone starts posting fascist things I expect to see them countered and likely reported - it would honestly have to be a person making the choice to manipulate a specific person for some reason to make that worthwhile.
But personally I'll be fighting against the "Nazi bar" effect hitting tildes. I think there are enough of us who do that it is not an effective bot strategy.
If you flag them, I believe Deimos would see and likely ban if it was obviously a bot. But I haven't seen any such comments and wonder if you're seeing ghosts. (Am I a bot for suggesting nothing...
If you flag them, I believe Deimos would see and likely ban if it was obviously a bot. But I haven't seen any such comments and wonder if you're seeing ghosts. (Am I a bot for suggesting nothing is wrong?)
I'm curious to see what the general consensus is here, I'm sure you'll get more informed replies than I am going to give. That said, if you suspect an account is a bot, is engaged in trolling, or...
I'm curious to see what the general consensus is here, I'm sure you'll get more informed replies than I am going to give. That said, if you suspect an account is a bot, is engaged in trolling, or is otherwise breaching the Tildes Philosophy then you should bring it to the attention of those in charge. I've only ever had one occasion to reach out, it took about 8 hours for them to shut down and remove the offending thread after I reached out. The post was up for over 16 hours total, and unfortunately baited a large number of users in a sexist manner. But in the end the team was responsive and they removed the thread confirming to me that it was not something they wanted on this site. This is still a very small community, and all "moderation" is done manually by very few people. If you have records of accounts you feel have been engaging in questionable patters, and you have links to support it, I doubt there is any harm in you emailing that information directly to either contact@tildes.net or abuse@tildes.net -it's possible that no one has read all of the content that you have seen to piece together a pattern.
Well, Deimos is BDFL, sure, but cfabbro, mycketforvirrad, and a few others have lower-tier mod powers. I don't remember the details beyond editing titles and tags and moving topics, but there are...
Well, Deimos is BDFL, sure, but cfabbro, mycketforvirrad, and a few others have lower-tier mod powers. I don't remember the details beyond editing titles and tags and moving topics, but there are others helping to keep the place tidy.
I haven't noticed anything bot-like, but I suppose it is possible. I think that being invite only and being a fairly small disconnected (aka not federated) community makes it naturally a poor...
I haven't noticed anything bot-like, but I suppose it is possible. I think that being invite only and being a fairly small disconnected (aka not federated) community makes it naturally a poor target for bots. If you do see something like that report it because the bad actor would need another invite.
Whenever I see a thread like this I worry it's about something I posted 😅 I don't think there's a need to make a very vague public discussion out of it either way.
Whenever I see a thread like this I worry it's about something I posted 😅 I don't think there's a need to make a very vague public discussion out of it either way.
Well see because it's vague - it's understandable that you don't want to provide usernames but the behavior you're describing is so broad - paid trolls are different than bots, and just being a...
Well see because it's vague - it's understandable that you don't want to provide usernames but the behavior you're describing is so broad - paid trolls are different than bots, and just being a devil's advocate can be annoying but it isn't necessarily bot behavior, that there's very little that any of us who aren't Deimos can say constructively
I'm not interested in changing the topic nor talking about myself particularly. And it seems to me like you're mimicking the type of behavior you described as problematic on purpose.
I'm not interested in changing the topic nor talking about myself particularly. And it seems to me like you're mimicking the type of behavior you described as problematic on purpose.
What is this sentence? It is very broken and reads as if you are asking why that mimicking is bad. Reading some other sentences, my good faith guess is that English might not be your first language?
Why mimicking the type of behavior I've described as problematic is bad?
What is this sentence? It is very broken and reads as if you are asking why that mimicking is bad.
Reading some other sentences, my good faith guess is that English might not be your first language?
Sure. This is very much a personal view, but I prefer having moderation be a private matter. You could either message Deimos, or maybe the supposed bot, with your concerns. Making a post without...
Sure. This is very much a personal view, but I prefer having moderation be a private matter. You could either message Deimos, or maybe the supposed bot, with your concerns.
Making a post without details is somewhat pointless because it limits the advice and feedback you could receive. But if you make a public callout post, it would probably just generate inter-user drama. That's why I think a private handling of affairs works best.
I think asking this as a general question would be okay, but this post is clearly about some specific users, which is a little too close to Tidles drama for my liking.
I've not seen a single comment that felt like bot behaviour to be honest. So I'm curious what you saw. Your description doesn't really fit anything I've read.
I don't think that posting names and accuse anyone is appropriate. It is very sensitive topic.
To be honest I don’t see a point in this thread if you’re unable or unwilling to present any kind of evidence. It’s the definition of generating FUD. Nothing productive can even be discussed without concrete examples.
Yes, this is why the correct advice is to send whatever evidence you have to Deimos and let him handle it. Doing the equivalent of a public trial would be no fun for anyone.
I'd heard FUD all over the place intermittently for years and never bothered really look it up outside of the obvious context clues.
Something something gestures widely / the state of the world. I looked it up.
Fear Uncertainty Doubt
Send me a message with links to the users/posts that you're referring to: https://tildes.net/user/Deimos/new_message
Message sent
One of your very few comments on this site is you baselessly accusing a regular user of posting "an AI generated text", was that appropriate?
most of OPs contributions reads like bad AI -- like they're testing a bot and checking to see if we spot them.
If you have problems with jokes it's not my fault.
Let’s not do this, thanks.
Tildes is still invite only. Reporting it can have the mods/admin look into it and determine if there is spam-like behavior.
For he above reasons, ban evasion isn't really that doable either. The best exploit is using all your invites on alts and signing those up, But the admin can see who invited what and stomp that out just as quickly.
The emdash makes me wonder if this is very self-referential performance art.
Either way, I agree with @pete_the_paper_boat - not something I’ve particularly noticed as an issue, but one that I’m sure could be privately reported to the people in charge if there were specific concerns.
We gotta stop blaming the em dash, the AIs got it from humans in the first place.
I love em dashes so much; they feel like a written breath between sentences :’(
I’ll need to convince all my devices to stop replacing a double dash with an em dash -- surely that’ll assuage everyone’s concerns.
I truly am heartbroken that my efforts to access to beautiful em dash through the extra symbols page of my Android phone's keyboard and long-pressing the "-", or googling "em dash" and copying the first instance of it I see in the search results on my desktop, now can possibly make some people think I am a bot. 😭 I have thought of doing a -- instead, but it just doesn't feel the same! I've decided I will just let some people think I am a bot. Glory to the em dash. ✨🙏—🙏✨
Having come from the Jurassic aka typewriter era, the -- is second nature to me. I like the em dash visually, but it would take effort to learn to do naturally without (IMO) great benefit.
No wonder---the “equivalent” to an em dash in hyphens (what you might call “short” or “single” dashes) is three of them, not two. :P
(Two stand for the en dash.)
Somewhat frustratingly, the rules around using them (e.g. whether to place a space before and after, or which of the two “lengths” to use when) differ in my native German, which is why you’ll probably almost never see me use either truly correctly. Maybe singular hyphens, though.
General case I fully agree, but rightly or wrongly it’s well known that people think of it as an LLM tell at this point. Choosing to drop one in the middle of a sentence about subtleties that give away bots is pretty on the nose.
Or it's just how they write.
Just for complete clarity: I’m not saying the original post is or isn’t LLM generated, I’m saying the choice to drop an emdash in that particular sentence genuinely raised a chuckle when I saw it. I was half expecting OP’s answer to be along the lines of “haha yeah, that was deliberate, wondered if anyone would pick it up” (my money was actually on human written but deliberately self-referential), but “nah, just a coincidence, that’s how I write” would’ve made sense too. Given their actual replies, I’m confident we’re being messed with, probably good-naturedly.
If you were actually making a more subtle point that I’ve totally missed, sorry about that! My inner monologue is four levels of meta deep thanks to this thread and I may have got myself tied up in it.
No I just dislike the emdash hate, no subtler points today. Just a pet peeve.
Based on another answer I do get more "messing with" vibes (the can't take a joke" line) but I am hopeful they're just a bit focused on this
I'm so lucky AI doesn't over-use parentheses and semicolons or everyone would think I'm AI too
lol I’m the same with my overuse of parantheses. But luckily my stream of consciousness is too rambly to be considered AI (at least I hope so)
Also, I’ve recently noticed that I could replace like 50% of my parentheses with just new sentences. That occurred to me when I wanted to add a parentheses into a parentheses)
Ugh, I kind of hate when that happens, I just start to question the whole text...
What is really the thing I'm trying to say (and what is just a clarification or similar)?
Sometimes I just delete everything and not only the ()!
This is mostly my read as well. Their replies feel like the same thing they're referencing as bot behavior.
Fun fact: when AI uses them, em dashes don't have spaces before and after.
That is a fun fact! I lean ever further towards:
Asking questions about botting is a performance art, huh.
Alright, I’m sold, sharks are smooth.
What? No they're not. Sharks are extremely rough, like sandpaper.
If you see a shark, DO NOT LICK IT. It is not a smooth and pleasant and oddly flavorful experience; it will abrade your tongue. All the experts and the government agree on this.
Any reputable shark tourism company will have tongue sheeths on hand to protect you from abrasive dermal denticles. Jacques Cousteau was an early success story with his aqua-tongue.
Sitting on the beach bench, dunnnn da dunnnn... Eyeing little sharks with bad intent 🎶 🪈
You're.... Not the boss of me. ಠ_ʖಠ
I want to lick the shark now.
I can't remember clearly now, it's been years, but I thought sharks felt smooth if you pet them one way and very rough any other direction?
They're safe to pet "with" the scales, but idk if I'd call it smooth necessarily. I certainly haven't pet most shark species, nor pet any recently though
True, again it's been years and I only tried bamboo, and a few skates/rays. I want to believe they're velvety smooth one way so my memories are very biased :)
Here's What It Feels Like To Pet A Live Shark | WLRN
So everything says sandpaper or pumice (but rough enough to tear skin) against the denticles, but I thought oh this article will tell me.
Their answer: "Humbling"
And ok yes, especially a bull shark, but not helpful
I have touched several sharks, and if I recall correctly, it's Nurse Sharks that people think of as quite smooth in one direction and quite rough in the other. They are very smooth if you touch them nose-to-tail but very rough tail-to-nose.
I can’t tell if no one got the reference, if they’re all playing along, or if tilderinos just like a good evidence-based discussion…
Because I didn't get the reference, until I got the reference, and I'm really glad I dereferenced it — the reference
I got it! Personally I was hoping to reply all day with rigorous evidence about the rough texture of sharks, but in our metaphorical comedy duo here on Tildes we have an apparent abundance of straight men and a deficit of funny men. Ah well
The former and the latter for me. But I was distinctly not on Tumblr or Twitter (although I've seen the comic itself, just not the commentary)
⟩<^,«⋗
I don’t think this is a significant threat tildes faces. Consider compassionate interpretation. Maybe that’s just how some people communicate.
As an aside, whenever a topic like this pops up referencing some nameless user’s comments I always think “god I hope this isn’t about me.”
Without examples, I’m limited in what I can say. But, two thoughts:
IMO, those are genuine humans trying to make sense of the world, and discuss it with their peers. People often give each other the benefit of the doubt; they don’t know that someone is a bad actor, just that someone said or did a thing, and now the computer is recommending their work.
Equally, there are people with genuinely different political ideologies (note: not red vs blue team sports, but what policies they believe in, and the values they uphold) around these parts. That heterogeneity is a bit weird on the modern internet, but it’s more representative of the world pre-algorithmic slop packing. They aren’t bots, they just disagree with you.
The thing is I'm from those part of the world where open internet discussion is infected with bots for a long time and it got me trained in noticing this suspicious behavior very well.
Fair, but I’d push back lightly on calling it suspicious. It’s all contextual: walking closely behind people in lockstep is suspicious behaviour at night, in dark alleys, but it’s just what you do when you’re salsa dancing.
Tildes is more of a salsa dancing studio than a murder alley :) I would never advocate for someone to drop their guard in all circumstances, but for this safe space at least, I’ve found that assuming the best in people normally works out (and when it doesn’t, they get dogpiled anyways).
Oh! Also, if someone has been inviting bots, I expect that their whole invite tree will get pruned off the site, so Deimos is really holding all the cards here at the end of the day :3
I'd also add that there are some folks here who engage in skepticism as like a philosophy or method. And at times, at least from my perspective, it can feel like it's done to the point of contrarianism.
But that doesn't mean those users are trolling. They merely disagree or at least are trying to get people to better explain their positions and reasons. To provide evidence, if necessary. After all, sometimes people (all people, not just those on Tildes) make claims based on dubious grounds. Not even maliciously, but simply from a place of ignorance. They heard or saw something somewhere from someone. Who hasn't done that?
Plus, we are actually trying to have discussions here. This place wouldn't be anywhere as fun and interesting if it were just people saying, "Agreed" over and over in every thread. Or not commenting, but instead simply upvoting and moving on. Or disagreeing but saying nothing. This would be a really quiet place. So in some ways, those folks who are disagreeing or questioning are helping to generate and maintain discussion.
I don't doubt that, but also: false positives are a thing.
I'm on a secret sub on reddit (one of the few places on there that remain tolerable) that has around 400 users and I've gotten to know some of them well enough to be certain they aren't bots. But the times are rough and people who go through rough things can lose their ability to be constructive. One user in particular has developed the adamant belief that the current US president is a good person who genuinely cares and tries to help out the small guy like himself, and who follows the constitution. All it took for him to block me was a friendly remark that due process is explicitly mentioned in the constitution. And I don't mean "friendly" in a sarcastic way - I was being genuinely friendly. He would rather block and deny than face and deal with the cognitive dissonance. A truly nice, good guy in many ways.
It makes no sense but it is what it is.
Here on Tildes, I've been happy to see spam accounts very efficiently called out and blocked.
'Bots' are given that behaviour because it resembles how humans behave, and humans are led to imitate it in turn. The behaviour itself is normal.
There's never really a way to know 100% whether an user is acting maliciously or not. Trying to play it like Werewolf is a fool's errand, and I'd argue it does more harm to this space than good.
Well or you have to acknowledge, like in werewolf, you're going to kill a lot of villagers in the process.
Honestly, I think the Tildes community is not large enough to be worth it to have budget for having paid trolls or bots. And I'm glad that it isn't.
When I see a comment of at least five paragraphs, I sometimes raise my eyebrow thinking it might have been a bad comment, and then I feel bad for doubting, because what's more likely it was a human who actually took time to write, edit, proofread their comment.
Sad that we got to this point.
I rarely post, and consider myself fortunate for having gotten access to an account here in the first place - networking is a key skill that I lack. So when I do decide to make an effort post, it'll often be long, and in an area where I feel like I have expertise.
And half the time I feel like posting was a mistake, because the voting system here can be a magnet for anxiety, even if its not as harsh as somewhere like Reddit, Discord, or other social media adjacent sites. But I feel more comfortable trying here, because there's less open hostility when people disagree.
Long posts by people who know the subject well are great. Like little windows into the subject where you learn quite a bit, sometimes it's even info that is not well known. Just the other day I found one out in the wild, on youtube of all places! It was some bits of info about Pearl Harbor that I hadn't heard before. The video was rubbish, didn't cover what the clickbait title said and some history buffs decided to add to the comments that everyone came to learn.
I love that about this place, I can say my opinion and the worst I get is a lengthy explanation as to why it's stupid (in nicer words). I can even ask followup questions to try to understand without being called a troll. Discussion is an actual thing. :D
It's refreshing over those other places where people just say "your dumb/nazi/troll", go off on a meaningless rant at you for daring to have a different opinion even though they can't defend their own, or where mods ban you for unpopular opinions (I'm looking at you r/news).
I get anxiety just reading comments at those other places, the toxicity is so thick. Not so much here. I do get not commenting since I cancel comments a lot. Other places I wouldn't care, but here I feel comments have more weight to them. You can post on Twitter or Reddit and be unsure if anyone ever read it, here it's basically guaranteed. Like yelling at a stadium vs talking in a library. Sometimes you just feel your post will be like yelling in the library, or at least like making fart noises.
We have had a few spam accounts here and there. But for the most part they stood out rather obviously and were dealt with rather quickly as well.
Proofread?
(Maybe I should tidy up my past comments)
So without relevant examples (which I get your hesitation), it's basically impossible to discuss this, which brings me to the logical solution: PM Deimos?
Provide your evidence, let them look into it. Not much of a point to this topic other than I guess your question of "is this allowed" which I believe it's a no, but again that's really a Deimos call anyways.
Tildes is protected from malicious actors and from spammers. They are spotted and removed.
Bots is a more difficult question. If the bot doesn't violate rules and norms here then presumably it would just continue.
https://xkcd.com/810
All that aside, I'd prefer to know I'm conversing with actual humans, but at this stage if someone set up an LLM bot with one of the major providers and set it loose here, I'm not sure we'd be able to spot it quickly, depending on the prompting and integration. Known bots that provide useful functions can be great, but they're deterministic. Maybe I'd feel better about a flagged bot account that could be summoned with a keyword? Eh.
I'm here to talk to people. Maybe one day software can graduate to people-ness, but we're not there yet.
Man... back in my day, everyone else on the internet was a dog. Crazy times.
All human here! (◕ᴗ◕✿^)
Humans can definitely be into mushroom circles and flowers and prefer to avoid cold iron, yep.
𖡼𖤣𖥧𖡼𓋼𖤣𖥧𓋼𓍊
See, you get me! Otherwise only ever mycologists would walk into them, and that's not a balanced workforce.
Gotta say I've never even considered how many mycologists must be wandering around Faerie running errands... Actually, I bet they're having fun.
Honestly you don't keep them for very long because there are so many. It's not that fun gathering people when half your collection has the same major. Do you know that mushrooms are closer to animals than they are to plants? I do. Did you know fungi are the humans' primary competitors for food? I. DO They're mostly pleasant but ugh
Honestly I suspect the recent influx is a bit of a "fuck it, I'll take my chances" reaction to the current state of...everything. if anyone could avoid a fairy ring, it would be the mycologists.
I'd question "to what end" for a bot here. There's no karma to build up. You could build a positive reputation and then start posting some wildly offensive or aggressive stuff but then you'd still get banned like the people who do the same. Same if you spammed. It's not a big audience.
Maybe for the lulz or to field test a bot?
"Paid" trolls definitely doesn't make sense - who's paying people to troll? Where's my check? I could troll! - here.
Yes, there is a big difference between possible and likely given usual human motivations.
Still, as you say, someone might want to test a bot.
It would take more dedication than most would want to invest, but slowly manipulating users here comes to mind. There are some users here that I recognize, and a few of them have opinions that I'm more likely to agree with just because they have been reasonable in the past. What happens when one or several such users start slowly pushing more toward fascism? Not all at once, but bit by bit, starting with scenarios that cause internal moral clashes and supporting the one that leans fascist.
It would take human interaction at the start, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else has had a similar idea and only rejected it because of the time it would take.
I think the amount of time and effort that would take would not be something that would be a bot that would be a human actor. Especially for a small site -if someone starts posting fascist things I expect to see them countered and likely reported - it would honestly have to be a person making the choice to manipulate a specific person for some reason to make that worthwhile.
But personally I'll be fighting against the "Nazi bar" effect hitting tildes. I think there are enough of us who do that it is not an effective bot strategy.
If you flag them, I believe Deimos would see and likely ban if it was obviously a bot. But I haven't seen any such comments and wonder if you're seeing ghosts. (Am I a bot for suggesting nothing is wrong?)
I'm curious to see what the general consensus is here, I'm sure you'll get more informed replies than I am going to give. That said, if you suspect an account is a bot, is engaged in trolling, or is otherwise breaching the Tildes Philosophy then you should bring it to the attention of those in charge. I've only ever had one occasion to reach out, it took about 8 hours for them to shut down and remove the offending thread after I reached out. The post was up for over 16 hours total, and unfortunately baited a large number of users in a sexist manner. But in the end the team was responsive and they removed the thread confirming to me that it was not something they wanted on this site. This is still a very small community, and all "moderation" is done manually by very few people. If you have records of accounts you feel have been engaging in questionable patters, and you have links to support it, I doubt there is any harm in you emailing that information directly to either contact@tildes.net or abuse@tildes.net -it's possible that no one has read all of the content that you have seen to piece together a pattern.
One people even.
Well, Deimos is BDFL, sure, but cfabbro, mycketforvirrad, and a few others have lower-tier mod powers. I don't remember the details beyond editing titles and tags and moving topics, but there are others helping to keep the place tidy.
According to cfabrro's bio
I haven't noticed anything bot-like, but I suppose it is possible. I think that being invite only and being a fairly small disconnected (aka not federated) community makes it naturally a poor target for bots. If you do see something like that report it because the bad actor would need another invite.
Whenever I see a thread like this I worry it's about something I posted 😅 I don't think there's a need to make a very vague public discussion out of it either way.
Well see because it's vague - it's understandable that you don't want to provide usernames but the behavior you're describing is so broad - paid trolls are different than bots, and just being a devil's advocate can be annoying but it isn't necessarily bot behavior, that there's very little that any of us who aren't Deimos can say constructively
I'm not interested in changing the topic nor talking about myself particularly. And it seems to me like you're mimicking the type of behavior you described as problematic on purpose.
What is this sentence? It is very broken and reads as if you are asking why that mimicking is bad.
Reading some other sentences, my good faith guess is that English might not be your first language?
Both their posts switched to incorrect English and have just turned into "rephrase into a question" responses.
Sure. This is very much a personal view, but I prefer having moderation be a private matter. You could either message Deimos, or maybe the supposed bot, with your concerns.
Making a post without details is somewhat pointless because it limits the advice and feedback you could receive. But if you make a public callout post, it would probably just generate inter-user drama. That's why I think a private handling of affairs works best.
I think asking this as a general question would be okay, but this post is clearly about some specific users, which is a little too close to Tidles drama for my liking.
Are you trying to mimic the behavior you find problematic as a rhetorical point, to be annoying, or are you doing so accidentally?
Going by what I have seen on Reddit, accusing someone of being a bot when they write something you don't like is the new "fake news!".
Yes.