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‘Indiana Jones’ & The Box Office of Doom: Why ‘Dial of Destiny’ at $60M opening isn’t setting records for franchise finale
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- Authors
- Anthony D'Alessandro
- Published
- Jul 1 2023
- Word count
- 2882 words
Having seen it, I guarantee you won't guess how the final act plays out.
For better or worse.
The third act was totally out of left field, but IMO it really worked. Highlight of the movie for me.
Yeah, it definitely grew on me as the scene played out. But first reaction was “ oh no”
Is it another crystal skull situation, where all of a sudden it was aliens out of left field ?
It seems like it learned from Crystal Skull's mistakes. The ending is foreshadowed, but subtly enough that you will never guess it's biggest twist during a first viewing. I intend to watch it again to pick up any clues I missed.
More importantly, however, is that the crazy ending is thematically resonant with the rest of the film, fits in line with the themes and aesthetics of the original triliogy, and serves as climactic character development for both leads and the primary villain. To me, this is the right way to "subvert expectations". It does something unexpected, but not to the detriment of its characters or legacy.
No. Having been cautious about it, after being burned by Crystal Skull, I was pleasantly surprised.
Is it absurd and totally over the top? Yes, but that’s what we came for, isn’t it?
That's not reassuring considering I didn't expect the finale we got from the last movie.
Unlike Crystal Skull, I think this ending really works. I don't want to spoil it, so I won't say too much. Where it improves on Crystal Skull though is that this ending fits perfectly in line with Indy's character. Rather than making Indy feel out of place in a sci-fi movie, it puts Indy in a situation where he really is an expert.
Something else I really liked about this movie is how they really emphasize the Dr. in "Dr. Jones". Indy feels more like a scientist than ever. They even work this flawlessly into his banter and one-liners, and is very important in how the ending plays out.
You're right. Everything has become boring and formulaic. The giants in the industry are so averse to risk, their product is becoming stale regurgitations. At least in the past, you had tropes that were dressed up differently, e.g. Last of the Mohicans and Avatar, but now they don't even bother with that. They go with their franchises, that are known, that they can fart out merch endlessly, and get their payday. It's barely even about putting a good movie any more. Everything is just a cash grab, shamelessly so.
No, it's mostly that most movies nowadays are either remakes or a part of a franchise. I think maybe the horror genre is the only area I see trying new things, but that's not an area the general audience tend to watch. Also, those movies usually aren't in theaters.
Maybe I don't watch enough horror movies but I don't see horror movies trying new things. Of anything they tend to lean on tropes more openly because they know devoted horror fans know and understand them (and treasure them) so deeply.
Admittedly I also don't watch a lot of horror, but I have found everything I've seen of A24's output is absolutely excellent, and doesn't seem to lean into tropes very much at all.
To be honest I haven't seen a lot of their horror stuff. I have some of it ready to watch but just haven't gotten around to it... thinking specifically of X and Pearl here.
I loved The Lighthouse but it was more of a thriller than a horror for me.
I guess it depends on which ones you are watching. Indie filmmakers will try new stuff, plus that A24 studio are good at producing films that have the tropes but will alter them a bit to seem fresher. Japanese and Korean filmmakers are also interesting because their style differs a lot from the Western ones.
I think foreign markets in general may have an edge since they're not sticking to Hollywood formulas. It's just more noticeable with horror since Asian horror is so respected within the genre, and horror fans are willing to explore other languages to find good films.
Seems like you need to go watch low budget & weird movies. If all the shit you're watching is from a major studio all they do is try to lower the risk of a bomb. You're watching a live action adaption of actuarial tables.
Favorite weird ones from the late teens to current. Most are horror:
Smile
Deadstream
Host
Masking Threshold
Super Dark Times
The budgets are just totally out of control, $300 million plus marketing is nuts for Indiana Jones. I believe since covid the general audience are much more selective of what they'll see and mediocre movies won't cut it anymore. Spider-Verse, No Way Home, Avatar and Guardians prove some movies can still do massive box office granted people are interested.
Honestly, I think movie theaters are just out of the budget anymore. With inflation and everything trying to become a subscription service to nickel and dime everyone to death, a lot of people and families just don't have the extra cash for it.
For me, personally, the experience doesn't match the cost. I just looked up the price on AMC website and it would be $20.66 for one matinee ticket. And that obviously doesn't include popcorn or a drink ($9.29 and $6.99, respectively for the cheapest options.) $38.98 for me to see a movie is absolutely insane.
Want to bring a date? Well you'll probably want to go to an evening showing and not get the smallest popcorn/drink. That'll be $72.01 and you haven't even had dinner.
I'd rather just wait and stream it for the $12/month or so that's already budgeted for the streaming service while eating snacks I've already bought from the grocery store from the comfort of my own couch or bed, without having to deal with the general public.
Plus, like others have mentioned, the last movie in the series was terrible.
Personally I don't ever buy popcorn or soda at the theater - maybe a beer which is about $7 for 20 oz, a reasonable deal. I go often enough that paying the $10/month fee for their discount program is worth it. That gets me one free ticket and other tickets are $5 after. If I go twice a month that makes it $7.50 per movie. The parking at the theater is free. I end up getting discount codes for snacks, bringing them down to normal retail prices. And I'm in one of the most expensive locations in the world. Maybe movies are just cheaper that normal at my local theater?
To be fair, I didn't look into any sort of discount program, but that's because I would never use it often enough to be worth it.
I did just look and find a local theater and the tickets are a bit cheaper, but not overwhelmingly. $18.20 for a single matinee ticket and $20.40 for evening, and they also have beer (seems to avg around $0.50/oz) and some light food options priced similar to a casual dining restaurant. They don't list popcorn/soft drinks.
So, better option than AMC for an occasional date night, but not enough to really move the needle for me.
Your deal seems pretty solid, but I don't know that I'd regularly go to 2 movies per month. I assume the $5 tickets are just for you and you can't purchase additional at that price for guests, correct?
Weirdly theaters in my area are pretty cheap too. $12, $9 matinee, $2 up charge for 3d or atmos, and $1 for certain “premium features”. And this is the nicest theater in the area by a good margin.
I always thought theaters in my area were pretty pricy. This is also an extremely high cost of living area. I think they were quick to raise prices years ago and forgot to change further.
Back where I used to live in the States, in a medium density city with a low cost of living, movies were outrageously priced. Something like 20$ per ticket for non primetime and around 25$ on weekends. The only time I ever went was if somebody bought a ticket for me, nothing in the last decade had been compelling enough for me to see it in theatre.
Now I'm in Canada in a much larger city and my wife and I recently went to see Suzume no Tojimari and the tickets were 11.50$ each. We do have a shared discount program (Scene+) that gave me an additional dollar off and waived online booking fees.
In total with tax for two people to see a movie on Friday night (opening night too) at 7pm was only 26$. This is a much higher cost of living area as well, so it makes no sense. Seems like some theatres are just scrabbling for as much money as they can.
I pretty much only get the Landmark vouchers from Costco which get you two adult tickets + medium popcorns + drinks for I believe $32.99 or something.
You can add upcharges and stuff if you want, personally I really do not care about 3D movies so it's not a big thing for me (I've probably seen 50+ movies in 3D and only 2 were worth it). I also generally don't really care about IMAX.
I’m starting to wonder if my city is subsidizing the theater.
Actually I can buy tickets for guests. But I only get 2 or 3 discounted tickets per month.
Edit: After what @sparkle posted, I think this is probably more down to competition.
Where I am there are multiple major league stadiums <30 minutes away. There are tons of different theaters, live and film, broadway tours, music tours, etc. I don't think a movie theater would want to compete with too many of those alternatives.
I think you're both watching more movies than the average person and your theater offers a good deal. I haven't been interested in watching anything except JW4 and Spider-verse this year, so that's twice that I've been to the movies the entire year. And tickets where I live are easily $10 to $20 depending on the theater.
The average person does only go about 4 times a year
Isn't matinee supposed to be super super cheap? Where I live I believe its $5-$7 for matinee. $10-$12 for normal prices (2D). $20 sounds like you live in an area with an ungodly high cost of living + seeing a movie in IMAX 3D with Dolby Digital.
Just went to AMC and looked again, and my original prices were indeed for Dolby Cinema. Price for a single regular matinee ticket today is still $14.61. Non matinee comes out to an even $20. The local theater doesn't list Dolby or IMAX options so I assume it's regular 2d. Tickets there today are $11.60 for matinee and $18.20 for non matinee.
But then it becomes even more of a cost doesn't match the experience situation for me. Without the extra technologies like IMAX and Dolby, it's just a big screen with surround sound, which I have at home, so it feels like the theater is a waste. Definitely cheaper than what it was yesterday for the weekend prices, but still more than I'd like to spend on a movie, especially if you add snacks and a drink.
I live in Baltimore, so not cheap but definitely not what I'd call an ungodly high cost of living area in general.
What does matinee mean in this context? I can only think of a piano matinee.
I think the etymology is from french for morning (according to google). In the US, movie theaters will typically have discounted rates for the earliest showings of the day. Some matinee times are actually early afternoon. I feel matinee showings are becoming less common.
Ah, right. We have that, too, but call them just "daytickets".
Cool. What part of the world?
The Nordics. I think my local theatre just has a single price, but it's very reasonable at 11 euros. I don't go too often (well, did see Indy last week), but I love that it's an old-style theatre built in the 50's. Just a walking distance from where I live.
I hate that the bigger theatre chain(s) basically force you buy like 4 or 8 tickets for the price to be reasonable. Singles cost way too much. Then you just usually forget to use them within 6 months and they go void :/
Oddly enough, I pay less with a subscription service. I pay Alamo Drafthouse about $40/month for two tickets to see up to one movie every day. If I go twice, I've already caught up to the per-ticket price. And then we just treat it as a restaurant and it's about what we'd pay elsewhere. (Except soda costs as much as a beer, at $6, but they also do refills unlike conventional theaters.)
They also show anime films and other limited release stuff, as well as non-current movies, so it's automatically of more interest to me.
Honestly it's not the cost that bothers me so much as the cost of seeing a shitty movie.
I saw Alita Battle Angle three times at the show...I NEVER see a movie more than once at the show.
Stop making shite movies and more people will see them.
We have Indiana jones at home. And its way better in this scenario.
Wish movie studios would realize that we actually want new stuff.
That's what people say, but that's not how they actually behave. When you look at the numbers, franchises and nostalgia bait are extremely successful. Yes, occasionally you'll have a flop like this Indiana Jones movie, but I don't think studios expect to nothing ever flop. Just because there's no 100% success rate doesn't mean a strategy isn't successful.
The big cinema movie before this was the bajillionth MCU movie (third in the GOTG series), which made 835 million dollars. And the movie before that was the Mario movie, banking on that sweet sweet Nintendo nostalgia. Made $1.34 BILLION.
Studios won't look at numbers like that and decide to stop. The occasional flop won't change that.
You’re not wrong. I just don’t like it haha
Just watch the intro to UHF and call it a day.
Why stop there? Just watch the whole movie and have a good time!
I wonder if the industry will adjust or just keep throwing huge amounts of money at projects that rely on nostalgia
Disney absolutely will. They have said they can't make the money unless its a big franchise with triple digit million budgets and now that's falling apart. They will probably have to sell off assets or do the FAST dance at some point.
I actually want to go see this. I wonder if the 4th of July falling on a Tuesday kind of messed up some people's would be long holiday weekend plans.
To me this seems like a movie that will recover while still in theaters but then again, who knows anymore?
It takes a lot for me to want to go to the movie theater nowadays. I'm perfectly happy waiting a long time to view at home. AAA TV series are really more my bag now, anyway.
Thinking back, I've only gone to the movies recently if I had time to kill in an area, or if it was a social thing. Otherwise, I'm watching at home in bed.
I don't get why this movie had such poor reviews. I thought the casting was good and the action was too. Nothing hugely special, but a good entry - definitely a head and shoulders above 4. A nice way to round off the series.
That's good to hear! People talk a lot of smack about The Last Crusade online too, and that's one of my favorite movies ever (granted, nostalgia plays a large part in that, but still).
Agreed! It provided all of the elements of an Indy movie and more nazi killing. Loved the adventure. Plus no Mutt
Am I the only one sad they axed Mutt? Sure, say what you want about the actor, but I'd rather they just recast him than introduce the protagonist's son and drop him. (Warning that I haven't seen the movie, but intend to, so idk how it's handled in the movie specifically)
Despite the negativity online—I watched the movie last night and genuinely had a great time. In comparison to the Crystal Skull (which was terrible), I’m glad this movie is how the franchise is ending. It was a bit ridiculous and over the top and unbelievable at times, but I mean, it’s an Indiana Jones movie! It’s supposed to be that way. It had everything you could want in one; Phoebe Waller Bridges was great, there were nazis being punched, things that belong in museums being mishandled by people with nefarious intentions, chase scenes, and just great action.
I think it’s easy to trash on a movie like this without having seen it, after we’ve seen franchise after franchise ruined by greedy studios desperate to squeeze a bit more milk from them. Admittedly, it’s no Top Gun: Maverick, but if you like Indiana Jones, I think you’d like this movie.
The way it ended was just as wild as the alien nonsense in Crystal Skull, but it fit the franchise so much better than aliens. I don't understand how this movie is scoring so poorly.
I barely even knew this movie was happening. I only knew of its existence because of a few people online correctly predicting that it was going to suck.
With that being said, whatever happened to marketing? I feel like in the last year or so several huge blockbuster films have had next to no marketing efforts. I wasn't even aware that Pixar released a movie until bad reviews started popping up on YouTube.
Are they trying to lean more towards selective advertising to a target demographic? Because if they are they're doing a bad job of it apparently.
I wonder if marketing has become a victim of ad blocking. Basically all the media I watch is on my phone/laptop (don’t have tv outside of YouTube/Netflix/piracy), and the occasional movie in the theater. Tildes is starting to dominate my social media experience since the death of Apollo, so Reddit ads have never really been a thing for me outside spam posts…
Other than billboards on the highway, I’m having trouble thinking of a source of advertising that actually makes it to my attention other than movie previews. I use the best ad blocking I can find on all my devices, skip the ads in podcasts and subscribe to ad-free Spotify. I don’t use Meta sites, TikTok or Twitter. I bet lots of people are like this, digging a mile-wide moat around their attention.
Ah yes, I guess I see some ads in search results, but my eyes just always skip like the first three results in any search these days…
If r/hailcorporate is to be believed, lots of seemingly organic discussions online are ads/astroturfing. Definitely harder to identify than traditional ads
I was so shocked when I accidentally stumbled upon an Internet forum where people were discussing advertising on Reddit.
They were saying things like “make sure your ads are covered up as a comment in a discussion”
And
“Leave a link to your product in your comment without bringing too much attention to it, and make sure it’s apart of the discussion at hand because Reddit users hate being advertised to”
It really made me question how many people do this
Totally. Its especially powerful when you think about how niche subs tend to fall into a hivemind state where everyone is parroting the same products (and rewarded with upvotes). My "awakening" was over at r/coffee where a mod there took down a review i authored. When I asked them why, they said they had too many fake reviews for new products and decided to blanket ban new releases until they had more "time in market". Honestly, I'm sure there was a truth in that statement but I found the mods actions offside. I think they should be more transparent with types of policies that curate discussion
As somebody who spent way too much time on coffee I’m really curious what the product is if you don’t mind sharing.
Niche subs really can get bullied into parroting the same brands over and over.
sure np. It was a kanso hiku hand grinder. I still use it! I think it's a good product not without flaws
For most of the hobby subs it ends up falling into a very predictable pattern of somebody asking where did OP find the stuff that's on the picture and then someone else providing a link.
That's how you know.
I’ve noticed that political discussions online often display this sort of tag team behavior, with various commenters each piping up with a single talking point in support of a given position. I’ve never found any proof, but once I noticed it some years ago I began to suspect that there was some sort of coordination behind the scenes.
Spotify ads are the most baffling to me because I am a free user... and even on mobile where I can't use adblock, it a) seems to skip the ads itself sometimes and b) half the time it seems to be showing video ads, which don't even describe the product or name the company or anything, so I just hear a little short bit of commercial music and then it's over. Do they expect people to just sit there and watch Spotify??
I only knew because I'm a big Lego fan and they just released some new Indy sets.
I think the movie wouldn't need any advertising budget at all if it was just a good movie. Word of mouth would take care of everything. "What, they made another Indy movie? And your cousin says it's good like the 3rd one? Let's go see it this weekend".
So I'm assuming it isn't good if it is not dominating the box office and the movie news sites.
I have Hulu and Peacock, and I have seen plenty of the same commercial for it during the ad break. I've never seen an Indiana Jones movie, so nostalgia doesn't dot it for me. I heard the last one sucked, so I assume this one will too. Whatever they did decades ago is something they no longer do...
I saw the movie on Friday. It's notably better than Crystal Skull, but obviously can not live up to the legacy of the original 3 movies. Overall, I did not have a bad time in the theater, but it's a movie that I don't plan to ever watch a second time and wouldn't tell any of my friends to go see.
There were a few moments that I really liked. I think if you love the franchise and squint hard enough you can focus on the good parts, ignore the bad parts, and come away happy.
It’s not opening to 60 it’s opening to what The Flash opened to.
This article also reveals that it had a budget of 329 million rather than the 295 figure that had been floating around for a while. This would make it the biggest box office bomb of all time, so congrats to The Flash for no longer carrying that title.
With terrible audience scores, it’s not making back its budget world wide.
Disney really is having a terrible year.
This was the last franchise they hadn't completely ruined. They have now destroyed all of their flagship cinematic universes. This is going to be far, far worse than a single terrible year for Disney. I'm hoping they go bankrupt, and if the fed lifts a finger to bail out these crappy hollywood firms I will riot.
I don’t know. Crystal Skull was an abomination. To me, it seemed like the only reason they even tried to make this one was so Crystal Skull wasn’t the last entry in the series.
Lucas made Crystal Skull, not Disney. This seems to have been their attempt at saving the franchise.
Ah. They’ve been affiliated for a long time (theme parks, etc.) so I didn’t realize it predated the transfer. Fair enough.
I thought it would at least be better than Crystal Skull but everything I've heard indicates otherwise (and the trailer did not inspire hope in me).
It’s got a lot of problems but it’s better than the crystal skull.
You know what's going to happen as Disney remains in downfall, right? They're going to blame it on them going woke and we'll never hear the end of it for a decade.
I thought it was that hollywood fired and then executed every competent writer. I can't see it getting better for Disney because they still have a lot of drek in the pipeline that we know will flop. There will be no profits from film this year. Disney+ is several billion in the hole and digging deeper. The theme park doesn't pay for itself.
They actually do. Operating income for domestic parks for one quarter was $1.5 billion.
At least that's some good news for them. They recovered from covid.
That's on them though. There isn't any logical scenario in my opinion that requires that much money to make a movie--ANY movie. Crazy amounts like $100 million+ for animated movies is even stupider, imo. The only exception I could see if it maybe the movie is more of a tech demo/showcase is the case of Avatar where they expect to use the tools created to additional movies (kind of like how Doom games are basically an ad for companies to liscense the game engine).
The Regal Club had spoiled me pre-COVID. It was slightly above the cost of 1 movie per month with unlimited tickets. They were releasing 3-4 movies a week so I'd go watch a movie just to watch a movie. I had no qualms watching genres that I would have never paid for. Most weren't bad and the total stinkers didn't make me feel guilty for "wasting money." They still got a ticket sale to boost their numbers and the theater still made money on me at least on a "snack pack" (ultra small popcorn, ultra small drink and some gummies for like $5-6).
Now I've stopped going to the movies and even cancelled my Regal Club membership because the studios are drip-feeding movie releases to like 1 maybe 2 new movies a week. Studios like Disney won't compete against themselves so they won't release a Star Wars film anywhere near live action remake #2322 of one of their animated films. Other studios are sitting on completed films for some reason and not releasing them. It's so barren that our 8 screen theater often has multi-screen releases just to fill in the screens. If they put in something like a rerelease of "Braveheart" or the orginal "Ghost Busters" for $5-7/ticket for a week I'd be more than happy to go and spend money but we needed 2 screens for "Morbius" --BOTH TIMES :/
Add in streaming and Redbox and now they're competing for my time more than my money.
While the movie looks bad to me, and I'm sure the box office won't be strong, it's worth mentioning this released this weekend and July 4th is on Tuesday so it will probably have a stronger than usual performance that day at least in the US. American action hero movie would be the go to for most audiences I'd think.
I had a feeling it was doomed when I saw the Applebee's commercials for giving a way tickets with any meal $35 or more.
There have been more “final” Indiana Jones movies than there have normal Indiana Jones at this point. I just don’t think most people are that interested in the pitch.
I think this is overlooked and completely spot on.
I never even saw Crystal Skull because "The Last Crusade" was supposed to be the end and it filled in all the boxes for a franchise finale imo. I'm certainly not in any rush to see the last, last LAST movie in the franchise.
Especially since I fully expect them to reboot/recast/softboot the franchise in, oh, probably 5 years.
There's an incentive for Disney to not resurrect Indy for a sixth movie: Paramount has to get a cut.
I’d like to watch it, but I pay enough for several streaming services and I can’t justify going to the theaters anymore. Especially for yet another sequel. I haven’t missed the annoyances and high costs of the theaters. I can wait until it’s streamable or rentable.
So I keep hearing that everyone hates this movie, but I saw it today and loved it. What exactly has everyone so upset?
Saw it last night and it was a lovely time, I'm not sure what the issue people have with this is. Dial of Destiny isn't all that interested in wrapping things up or examining the character in his old age or anything, really, other than a goofy adventure. Especially in this era of sequels and reboots casting undue reverence onto any B-tier franchise starter from the 80s or 90s, I appreciate that this was just trying to be another ridiculous episode in a serial, rather than a grand wrapping up of something that never really needed it.
It's more of the same, I suppose, and if you're truly tired of the series and its formula then you won't get all that much to bring you back in. But this is exactly the kind of dumb action movie the originals were, and it does about as well as they did. I'll take it, it made a wonderful night at the theater.
It really comes down to the level of quality that is presented at the theatres. It's an expensive endeavour and the last movie I saw worth it was Everything Everwhere All At Once. Seeing an eighty year old man try to do an action movie that apparently is inconsistently paced isn't cutting it for me anymore.
My wife and I went opening night, we're late 40s, early 50s. There was one other couple there, maybe a little older. That was it. 4 people for an opening night.
I'd love to say I came away from it feeling positive, but it just felt like too many scenes were copy/pasted from the previous films. "Oh, that's just like the bit where Marion got kidnapped! And that's the bit where Indy strapped himself to the periscope on the submarine!"
It's not BAD, it's just not new, there are no new memories here. I'd rather re-watch the OG movies.
I also don't get the hate for Crystal Skull... if you set an Indy movie in the 1950s it should have nukes, Russians, and aliens.
The Crystal Skulls are real (fake) artifacts too. Just like the Antikythera Mechanism is an actual artifact.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_skull
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism