At the moment some people will say that Shepherd's Pie and Cottage Pie are the same thing (mince meat, sometimes vegetables, covered with potato mash and oven baked), and other people will say that Shepherd's Pie must be minced lamb or minced mutton and Cottage Pie must be minced beef. I don't care, call it what you want. But I was interested about what people said in the past, so here are some old recipes I found in the Internet Archive.

One of the problems I'm having is that some books use "shepherd's pie" and some use "shepherd pie" and the OCR of older books is not great so searching for the correct terms doesn't always return the books, because the OCR is saying something like "Shepherd He" instead. I'll be poking around a it more on Sunday and adding a bit more as I find them.

Lots of these recipes are submitted to news papers and magazines by readers.

1850 - 1899

Rural New Yorker 1850 Edit: sorry, it's 1916

https://archive.org/details/ruralnewyorker75/page/986/mode/2up?q=%22shepherd+pie%22

"Shepherd Pie. — The left-over meat should be sliced instead of chopped for this recipe. Butter a baking dish and cover the bottom with hot mashed potatoes. Pour on the gravy and sliced meat, cover with more mashed potatoes. Pile the potatoes on lightly and leave the top uneven. Dot with butter and place in hot oven for 10 minutes."

Nor'west Farmer 1882 EDIT, sorry, this is 1915 (I was looking at the IA date, not the date printed on the page)

https://archive.org/details/norwestfarmer3419unse/page/28/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

mentions that scraps of left over meat can be made into shepherd pie

La cuisine anglaise et la pâtisserie : traité de l'alimentation en Angleterre au point de vue pratique, théorique, anecdotique et descriptif 1894

https://archive.org/details/lacuisineanglai00suzagoog/page/n108/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

I don't speak French but I'm pretty sure they're asking for beef cuts here.

Cookery by Amy G Richards. 1895

https://archive.org/details/cihm_12438/page/n127/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

The recipe says "1 lb cold meat - 1/2 gill gravy - 6 large potatoes boiled and mashed - pepper and salt - 1 tablespoon milk - 1 oz butter. Cut the meat into small pieces, sprinkle it with pepper and salt, put it into a pudding dish, pour the gravy over. Add milk, butter, pepper and salt to potatoes, cover the meat with them, smooth with a knife and mark over with a fork, or the potatoes may be put through a forcing tube. Bake three quarters of an hour. Serve hot."

1900 - 1920

The complete Indian housekeeper & cook : giving the duties of mistress and servants, the general management of the house, and practical recipes for cooking in all its branches (Caution, lots of colonialism) 1909

https://archive.org/details/b21528640/page/278/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

The book mentions Shepherd's Pie: "This is a form of potato pie made with mince, or it may be made with raw collops, or raw meat minced fine and seasoned with pepper and salt." (A collop is a slice of meat.)

The recipe for potato pie appears a page or so earlier: The recipe says "Potato Pie is seldom seen in India. Mash a sufficiency of potatoes thoroughly with milk, pepper, and salt. Make a good thin gravy, and use this to cover thin slices of mutton sufficient to half fill a pie-dish. Pile your mashed potatoes over, trim neatly, and score with a fork. Push into the oven, and serve very hot." (interesting to me that the scoring the potato with a fork appears so early)

Magnet cream separator cook book 1910

https://archive.org/details/cihm_78529/page/n17/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

The recipe says "Shepherd Pie - put cooked meat through chopper, season with salt, pepper, and onion juice, moisten with gravy, mash potatoes, add a beaten egg, melted butter (size of an egg), place this on meat, dot with pieces of butter and bake until thoroughly hot and nicely brown on top. A good dish for leftovers".

Onion juice, or thinly sliced onion, become more common in the early 2th century.

The Cook County cook book 1912

https://archive.org/details/cookcountycookbo00asso/page/372/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

"SHEPHERD PIE.— Spread over a small platter, thoroughly buttered, warm mashed potatoes, mixed with enough milk to make it a little soft, and set in the oven to brown. When stiffened enough, and as brown as pie crust, pour over it minced cold mutton, warmed in a little thickened gravy. Is a nice breakfast dish. —-Mrs. J. R. Bogen, 2722 S. Dearborn St., Chicago, 111."

I find it interesting that people's names and addresses are published. This recipe specifies mutton (probably cold leftover mutton). I find it interesting that she suggests it's a nice breakfast dish, and deconstructs the formula by putting the browned mash under the meat.

And here's a picture of South Dearborn Street in 1905. https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/barnes-crosby-fl-1900/south-dearborn-street-chicago-illinois-usa-c-1905-b-w-photo/black-and-white-photograph/asset/6354687

The same book has a recipe for Cottage Pie on the same page. Here's a cut 'n' paste. "COTTAGE PIE. — Chop cold roast 'beef or veal fine. To each 2 cups of meat add 1 teaspoon onion juice, 1 teaspoon fine-cut parsley or 1 tablespoon chopped celery, 1 tablespoon chopped green peppers, if liked, 1 teaspoon salt, and 1/2 cup gravy stock or boiling water. Mix all together, pack in a buttered dish, cover with a layer of hot, very soft mashed potatoes, about 1 inch thick. Brush the top with milk or wthite of t^^. Bake in a hot oven until the potato is well browned. — Mrs. M. Evans, 2019 S. Clark St., Chicago, 111."

To me this reinforces the point that shepherd's pie and cottage pie were both ways to use up meat leftovers, and while some people were making a distinction between lamb and other meats lots of people weren't.

Recipes: Proved and Approved 1913

https://archive.org/details/recipesprovedapp00unse/page/30/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

"Mince fine, cold meat of any kind and two small onions, season with pepper and salt. Place in an ordinary pudding dish, pour over all some gravy. Boil six large potatoes, mash, and add one beaten egg, a little salt and a tablespoon of butter, beat well, then spread over top of meat and place in hot oven to brown."

This adds an egg to the mash, and uses more onion than we've seen so far.

Low cost recipes by Harbison, Edith Gwendolyn, comp 1914

https://archive.org/details/cu31924003573932/page/n49/mode/2up?q=shep

"Chop some cold cooked mutton quite fine. Measure and for each pint add salt and pepper to taste, 1/2 teaspoonful of onion juice, a dash of curry powder and 1/2 pint of brown sauce. Mix and spread in a greased dish. Cover with a thick layer of hot mashed potato, dabbling the top with a little beaten egg yolk. Brown in a quick oven."

The meat is quite specific: cold, cooked, mutton. I'm not quite sure what 1/2 teaspoon of onion juice is going to achieve here, it doesn't sound like enough to do anything.

* Cook book 365, no. 2* by Pechin, Mary Shelley 1915

https://archive.org/details/cookbook365no200pech/page/62/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

"Cover the bottom of a well greased baking dish, with mashed potatoes, if the potatoes seem too stiff, add a little milk, then fill in the dish with beef cut into small pieces, add a little onion juice and the gravy left from roast, or some hot water seasoned with salt and pepper, and a little melted butter, cover the dish with a layer of mashed potato sprinkled over with bits of butter, place in hot oven and just reheat the meat and potatoes. Serve hot with some pickles."

More onion juice, and also this covers the bottom and top of the dish with mash.

The Kitchen Encyclopaedia 1916

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.148252/page/n345/mode/2up?q=shepherd

"This is made in the same way as Mutton and Potato Pie (p. 333), but with less onions — about 1 tablespoon chopped onion. The surface is either roughened with a fork or smoothed down with the blade of a knife, brushed over with yolk of egg and the whole baked in a moderate oven till browned"

Here's the recipe for Mutton and Potato Pie

"Line a pie-dish with alternate layers of sliced parboiled potatoes, sliced blanched onions, and small thin slices of cooked mutton. Season with salt and pepper, moisten with stock, cover with a greased paper and bake for 1 hour in a moderate oven. Remove the paper 15 minutes before serving, to brown the potatoes."

Make a little meat, go a long way: Use savoury stews and meat pies (with Italian translation (US Department of Agriculture) 1917

https://archive.org/details/CAT31328029005/page/n3/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

"This is the name of a meat pie with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven".

Here's the recipe for Meat Pie.

"MEAT PIES Another good way to use a little meat. Have you ever used rice, cornmeal mush, or hominy for a crust? This is less work than a pastry crust and saves wheat.

4 cups cooked corn meal, rice or hominy
1/8 teaspoon pepper
1 onion
1 teaspoon of fat
2 cups tomato
1 pound raw meat or left-over meat cut up small
1/2 teaspoon of salt

Melt the fat, add the sliced onion, and, if raw meat is used, add it and stir until the red color disappears. Add the tomato and seasoning. If cooked meat is used, add it with the tomato and seasoning, after the onion is browned, and heat through. Grease a baking dish, put in a layer of cereal, add the meat and gravy, and cover with the cereal dotted with fat. Bake half an hour."

And then just because, here's a recipe that I'm not going to comment on just to show how far some recipes deviate from the lamb / mutton mince plus mash formula:

Northfield Press 1930

Mackeral Shepherd Pie

https://archive.org/details/1930-05-30_Northfield-Press/page/n5/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie

"Shepherd Pie with its fluffy topping of mashed potatoes is well-known everywhere, and when fish takes the place of meat in the pie its popularity grows apace. To make Mackerel Shepherd Pie drain an 8 ounce can of diced carrots and add to half a cup of canned peas. Stir gently into two cups of thick white sauce. Flake the fish from a one-pound can of mackerel and fork very carefully into the sauce so that it remains in fairly large pieces. Pour into a buttered baking dish and pile fluffy, well-seasoned mashed potatoes on top. Brush with melted butter and bake in moderate oven until very hot and the potatoes are a golden brown."

As part of a weekly series, these topics are a place for users to casually discuss the things they did — or didn't do — during their week. Did you accomplish any goals? Suffer a failure? Do nothing at all? Tell us about it!

Welcome to the AEW Rampage discussion thread for June 16, 2023! We're coming to you this week from Washington D.C., following an action-packed Dynamite episode. Check out the chaotic and star-studded last 5 minutes here if you're considering giving AEW a shot!

MATCH CARD

Trios Match: United Empire (Will Ospreay, Jeff Cobb & Kyle Fletcher) vs. Best Friends/CHAOS (Trent Beretta, Chuck Taylor & Rocky Romero)

The NJPW United Empire faction, led by Will Ospreay, is set to face off against Best Friends/CHAOS this week. Will Rocky, Trent?, and Chuckie T be able to withstand the powerful combination of Ospreay, Jeff Cobb, and Kyle Fletcher? Or will Ospreay's momentum going into Forbidden Door, coupled with the powerhouse Cobb, be enough to secure a victory?

Mixed Tag Team Match: Jeff Jarrett, Jay Lethal & Karen Jarrett vs. Mark Briscoe, Papa Briscoe & Aubrey Edwards

A unique mixed tag team match is on the cards, with the trio of Jeff Jarrett, Jay Lethal, and Karen Jarrett squaring off against Mark Briscoe, Papa Briscoe, and AEW Referee Aubrey Edwards, who is making her in-ring debut. Can the Briscoes and Edwards pull off a win against their more seasoned opponents, or will Sonjay Dutt's gang of miscreants interfere to gain the upper hand?

Singles Match: Konosuke Takeshita vs. Bandido

'El Hijo del Don Callis' and Bandido are set for an explosive singles match. Each wrestler brings a unique style to the ring, and it will be a spectacle to see these two top-tier talents clash head-on.

Singles Match: Taya Valkyrie vs. Trish Adora

In a high-stakes singles match, D.C.'s own Trish Adora will face off against Taya Valkyrie. After failing to capture the title from Jade Cargill, Valkyrie seems to have set her sights on the new TBS Champion, Kris Statlander. As she looks to make a statement, this could be an excellent opportunity for Trish to show what she's capable of.

Additional Information

• Venue: Washington D.C.
• Airing On: TNT at 10pm Eastern

If you were to set up someone with a brand new kitchen, what are the components that you would suggest to them for getting that 80% of functionality for 20% of the investment (Pareto Principle)? These are especially things that I would consider to be worth a healthy investment as a buy-once-have-it-forever situation. Some things that come to mind:

A cast-iron pan: high skillcap and can cook almost any type of food
Stainless Steel Stock Pot: cooks most things stovetop that the pan can't handle
Chef's Knife: A good quality, sharp knife makes all the difference in the kitchen
Mason Jars: Preserve food, bring them to bulk stores, drink water out of them... top-tier utility

Things that are on the fence in my mind:
desktop blender/immersion blender/food processor: I love all of these appliances, but how important are they? A food processor is maybe the highest utility & makes meal prep way easier. Also unlocks recipes like hummus and salsa.
a large cutting board: small cutting boards suck, but how high of a priority is upgrading it?

Let's have a discussion where you state your case for an individual appliance/tool (or argue one of these suggestions) and see what other people have to say!

Seeing that this is taking off a bit, I'm going to try compiling some of the response data here:

Level 0 - Starter Kit

• Stainless Steel Pan (+3)

• Aluminum Stock Pot (+3)

• Vegetable Peeler (+3)

• Plastic Cutting Board (+3)

• Spoons / Spatulas / Ladles (+3)

• Chef's Knife (+2)

• Paring Knife (+2)

• Serrated Knife (+1)

Level 1 - Booster Pack

• Weighing Scale (+4)
• Baking Trays (+2)

Level 1a - Cooking I

• Immersion Blender (+2)
• Box Grater (+2)
• Dutch Oven (+1)

Level 1b - Baking I

• 2L jug (+1)
• Measuring Cup (+2)
• Pain De Mie Tin (+2)
• Wire Rack (+1)

Level 2 - Intermediate

• Instant Read Thermometer (+1)

Level 2a - Cooking II

• Food Processor (+1)

Level 2b - Baking II

• Immersion Whisk (+2)

Level 3 - Advanced

• Cast Iron Pan
• Mason Jars
• Air Fryer

New to Tildes, so I wanted to kick things off by asking—do you have any sci-fi horror recs you reckon I might be interested in? Here's some of what I've read:

Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer

• Solid read, but definitely more about the weird vibes than anything else. Sequels didn't hook me as much.

Blindsight by Peter Watts

• I generally try not to DNF my reads. But this was one of them. I'm sorry, I just can't buy vampires in a sci-fi world that's trying to take itself seriously, without proper grounding. It's also incredibly dry.

Dead Silence by S.A. Barnes

• A pretty solid read, I like how the narrative is told via flashbacks and then suddenly terminates in a way that makes you want to know more, in the most tantalizing of ways. Unfortunately I thought the reveal of the lurking horror was incredibly meh, and it went mostly downhill from there.

Diamond Dogs by Alistair Reynolds

• Fantastic novella with a mysterious locale functioning as the backdrop of the setting, and the horror elements being both external (as in the setting) and internal (how far our characters are willing to go to crack the mystery).

Paradise-1 by David Wellington

• A really solid space horror novel, with a pretty interesting protagonist trio (including a self-aware robot with plastic bodies) and it has some genuinely uncomfortable moments of horror that I can absolutely get behind. My main issue though, is that it ends in a cliffhanger and I'm still mad about it.

Salvaged by Madeleine Roux

• Decent read, but the horror reveal came super early and in reality, it's less space horror than it is human drama involving horror elements which is basically the Protomolecule from the Expanse. Fun read though, if you're okay with that.

Salvation Day by Kali Wallace

• I thought this was somewhat bland, the concept and initial plot were interesting, but it trails off and overall, overstays its welcome with some scenes that pacing-wise, feel like they belong in the middle part of the book. Some solid moments of horror though.

Ship of Fools by Richard Paul Russo

• Probably the quintessential space horror book for me. A fantastic setting, an intriguing protagonist narrative interspersed with religious themes and a genuinely solid pacing, horror-wise.

Six Wakes by Mur Lafferty

• This would have been an interesting murder mystery in space... if it actually had good and compelling characters. It does not. Everyone feels like a cardboard cutout with One Defining Trait and that's it.

The Luminous Dead by Caitlin Starling

• This was... a disappointment. I still rank it amongst the worst books I've read, simply because the protagonist is unbelievable. I can buy a protagonist doing things under duress or from being manipulated, but I cannot buy a protagonist who constantly flip flops 5 minutes after making a decision and then
  hooks up with the person who was manipulating her, because yay fucked up sexytimes! Look, I want queer representation in my books too, but this came off too much as just doing it for the vibes. Queer rep deserves better than stupid protagonists.

Walking to Aldebaraan by Adrian Tchaikovsky

• A great novella; it's a retelling of a really well-known story but reframed in sci-fi terms, and I love that approach.

We Have Always Been Here by Lena Nguyen

• A really haphazard book I think; I like some things about it, but others just don't make sense, or contradict it. E.g. the protagonist is a psychologist, but is absolutely horrible at reading human emotion and speech, and a loner who prefers robots. Throw in some Michio Kaku-esque pseudoscience and while it's not a horrible read, it feels like a book that could have been better with a rewrite. The setting and suspense are pretty neat though.

So, as you can see, I have met the good, the bad and the ugly of sci-fi horror. I'd love to find more! For non-book horror or horror adjacent works I've enjoyed, those include Alien, The Thing, Event Horizon, Sunshine, Underwater and Dead Space. Please don't recommend tie-in novels though; I can find those myself and generally I've found that they're not really up to par.

What I'm talking about are Pokemon that are given away in official events, which usually come in a Cherish Ball (after gen 4), have a ribbon, and were met in a 'fateful encounter'. I'm particularly interested in the H-Zoroark event distribution at the moment, because I love that Pokemon and the red color of the Cherish Ball matches it nicely.

Mostly just looking around for fellow traders to chat about cool shit we have, but I'm up for a trade or two if there's anyone interested!

I've recently been getting into Diplomacy (both face to face and online) and it's surprisingly fun, although requires some dedication. I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with the game or some tips for learning more in-depth strategy? It feels like online resources aren't that great or plentiful yet I'm having a hard time surviving against experienced players.

I am looking for a wi-fi tablet for singing from pdf sheet music on a shared Google Drive. The phone is too small of a screen.

In the past, tablets at this price are often junk, already end-of-life, and run so badly they are unusable (balky when simply scrolling). So, I am still using paper for now, afraid to buy yet another disappointing piece of junk despite not needing anything high end.

Any suggestions?

While maybe only hitting zero four or five times in the last ten years, I've subscribed to the "inbox zero" / getting things done (GTD) philosophy and have used my email as a to-do list. The people that I lead know to send me emails if they or I are meant to perform work born from the conversation that we've shared. Its been great in not missing anything -- its been horrible from a prioritization standpoint. A third to half of my email are bodiless emails to myself where the subject line would look like a to-do list entry to most others.

I'm curious how you approach your day and keep yourself organized if you're getting and giving work. Do you have a master to-do list that you work off of? Are you living in email all day? How do you keep track of prioritization and ensure that nothing slips between the cracks.

For the first time in my life, I'll be living somewhere other than my hometown— going half the world away to London!

Having never moved further than like an hour away from where I grew up, I'd love to hear about experiences, tips, things to keep in mind when moving to a totally new place. Anything centred on London/the UK is of course very welcome, but I'm also really into hearing from people more generally :)

eBooks and eBook readers feel a little stagnant at the moment. No significant increases in tech, the storefronts are stagnant and locked down with DRM, and it just isn't really an exciting field.

That said, I love my Kindle Paperwhite because it lets me get English books for cheaper (I live in Japan) and it lets me carry them around.

Do you use an eBook reader? Do you read eBooks on a standard tablet or phone? Or are you married to paper?

Just interested in how people's smart homes are set up and how they enjoy things or what they may dislike/wish was changed.

Alexa? HomeKit? Google? A mix? Other?
Glitches?
Any complex or otherwise unique use cases you've set up?

Good morning. This is a thread to discuss new album releases arriving at our doorsteps today. I'll start with some big names

Sigur Ros - ÁTTA

(Ambient, Modern Classical)
Spotify

A surprise release! I believe this is the first album with all three Sigur Ros members since Valtari in 2012. Initial reponse seems positive but mixed, should be worth checking out for fans

Queens of the Stone Age - In Times New Roman...

(Alt Rock, Hard Rock)
Bandcamp

Been a short while since the last QOTSA release. Initial reponse to this one seems very positive.

King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard - PetroDragonic Apocalypse; or, Dawn of Eternal Night: An Annihilation of Planet Earth and the Beginning of Merciless Damnation

(Metal, Prog Metal)
Bandcamp / Tildes Discusson

King Gizzard on a roll and don't seem to be stopping. Looks like this one is a move to a more metal sound. Could be the album of the week.

Killer Mike - MICHAEL

(Hip Hop, Concscious Hip Hop)
Bandcamp

First album away from Run The Jewels since 'R.A.P. Music' in 2012. Mike is a hip hop heavyweight at this point. Initital impressions look mixed.

Gunna - A Gift & a Curse

(Hip Hop, Trap)
Spotify

The first post Young Thug RICO trial from Gunna. First impressions seem mixed.

Feel free to share more releases below.

Discussion Points

Have you listened to any of these releases?
What are your thoughts?
What are you looking forward to listen to?
What have you enjoyed from these artists in the past?

Why Friday?

Most (but not all) new music releases on a Friday, as labels want to give the the release a full week of sales before entering the charts.

~~ Any feedback on the format welcome!

Where do you share the art that you make with the world? Do you use a social media site? A personal website? Do you keep it all to yourself? Is your art something that can't be shared online so easily?

Hi! Growing up a boy, I was always too afraid to read Romance. I didn't want to get made fun of or give anyone clues about the way I felt about my gender and sexuality.

Besides the fact I identify as transfemme, I'm also much older and don't give a shit what anyone thinks now.

Can anyone recommend me a romance novel? I wanna add the genre to my reading. Fantasy/sci-fi splashed in would be cool but not required at all.

Please tell me your FAVORITE romance novel as opposed to the "classes" or "the best". I wanna know what you like. I think that will end up with more unique and specific vibes.

Ty xoxo

The vast majority of free and open source software available is well known for being clunky, having very unintuitive UI/UX and being very inaccessible to non-nerds.

We can see this in Linux distros, tools, programs and even fediverse sites.

I understand that a lot of it is because "it's free", but I also feel like a lot of people who make and use FOSS don't actually value user-friendliness at all. I feel like some of it is in order to gatekeep the less tech savvy out, and some of it is "it's good enough for me".

What are the best theories for why this is the case?

EDIT: A lot of replies I've been getting are focusing on the developers. I'm asking more why the users seem okay with it, rather than why the developers make it that way.

Anyone using a drip irrigation system they can recommend? This would be for watering veggies (and possibly flowers in the future) in raised beds. These are some of the things I’m looking for but I’m getting a bit overwhelmed with all the choices out there:

• network capability, whether that be an app (iPhone) or website I can look at stats and control from
• 2 different garden beds to start with (3’ x 8’), with possibly 2 more in the future
• drip is the only irrigation I’m really concerned with so no need for sprinklers or anything (I don’t think, at least)
• there is only one spigot available for the area the beds are in

I'm guessing that it might just be that Tildes is an English only site, but as an avid language learner, I'd love to have a place to see and post non-English discussions.

Is there a best practice for making a non-English discussion? Is it simply not allowed? Is it allowed but discouraged?