160 votes

I hate the new internet. I hate the new tech world. I hate it all. I want out, and I can't be the only one.

I think most people would agree that the internet and technology in general have absolutely gone to shit over the past decade or so. There is no corner of the internet nor of the software world that hasn't been affected by enshittification. Everything exists to serve you ads. Everyone wants to extract as much money from you as possible. Every website is in a race for the bottom as they try to find the lowest effort content that makes them the most money. Every piece of software is pushed out half-baked and/or stripped down to the bare minimum with the rest paywalled or with the devs pinky promising to fix it 5 updates down the road.

Every social medium is just bots. The front page of Reddit is easily 35% easily detectable bots at least and who knows what the rest is comprised of. And it's probably the one that's doing the best at the moment, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, all of them are just bots and propaganda and engagement farming the whole way down. And the worst thing is, they're complicit. Hell, they're actively encouraging it and trying to find ways to make it worse. And I have no doubt Reddit will bend the knee soon enough too (they just banned /r/whitepeopletwitter because Musk made a tweet critical of the sub).

There's probably some element of rose-tinted glasses here, but the old internet was just so much better looking back. Like, early 2000's to maybe 2012, 2013 or so, that was the peak. No colossal data harvesting schemes feeding into algorithms designed to keep you engaged on their site 24/7 for the purpose of shilling you advertisements and selling your data, no mass propaganda, no Dead Internet Theory (which can hardly be considered a theory anymore). Yeah there was shit content, there was tons of it, but I can deal with shit content and petty forum drama and whatnot; what I can't deal with is all the multi-billion dollar corporations trying to shape the entire landscape of the Web into the perfectly minmaxxed cash-generating machine that does as little as possible for as much data and advertising as possible.

Modern software isn't much better. Windows and MacOS are filled with anti-user features, telemetry you just can't turn off, Windows will often just install shit on your computer without telling you. They turn your computer into a walled garden, where you can do what you want as long as you play by their rules, but without giving you any real control over what your computer does. Yeah you can delete system files and brick your laptop if you feel like it, but anyone who's ever tried to permanently disable Windows updates will know that in the end you're not the one calling the shots: Microsoft are. And... Like, that's insane, right? It's running on my fucking computer, it's my CPU doing the work, I want to know what the hell it's doing and not just the parts it lets me see, and if I want it to do something different then I should be able to make it so.

I hate it all. I'm tired. I want out.


These are my problems. Here's what I've done about it so far.

  • Obsessive privacy on the web. No Google services. Firefox with as much telemetry turned off as possible. Protonmail and ProtonVPN for everything (and I'm considering getting out of those too with the pro-Trump stances they've been taking recently). As minimal an online footprint as I can get, I make as few accounts as possible and I don't use shared or even slightly related usernames (my username here is an exception as it's my Reddit username, and no, it's not my real name), I delete accounts whenever I can and I GDPR request the services afterward. Virtual cards for online payments as much as possible. Will probably make a Javascript whitelist at some point too. Is all of this overkill? Yes. Why do I bother? Because fuck them.

  • As little social media presence as possible. Real life necessitates some amount of social media interaction of course, I have Facebook and Instagram but use them exclusively for messaging. I often see people excluding Reddit from social media but I don't fully agree, even if it's not exactly in the category it still targets a lot of the same psychological weak points in us, encouraging doom scrolling and shaping our opinions through echo chambers and propaganda (it's always important to remember that echo chambers and propaganda you agree with are still echo chambers and propaganda). I still use Reddit admittedly, but I've tried to minimise my usage as much as possible and I'm shopping for alternatives.

  • Free and Open Source software as much as possible. I'm all in on GNU these days. Yes, it's a massive pain in the ass. My job unfortunately requires some Windows-only software so I'm running a dual partition but I'm trying to get as much of my computer usage onto Linux as possible (I use Arch btw). Like I said above, it's my computer, if I can't control what it's computing then it stops being my computer, it's at best shared between me and all the developers of the proprietary software I have installed on it.


That's my rant. It's been a long time coming.

There are still things I'm looking to change, especially with how I use the internet. Getting rid of Reddit is the next big step for me, I think. I just can't be bothered with it anymore, but there is still something about it that I love, every time I look through a small niche topic community, or an interesting new hobby sub I've never seen before with years of cool posts for me to go through. And yeah, I do still enjoy browsing through /r/all even when it's 80% shit and objectively bad for my mental health. But at this point the overwhelming mass of utter shit is just not worth digging through anymore. I'm tired.

Tildes is really cool. It reminds me of the old internet, the ideal usage of the Web. I open the site, I see a link to an interesting article, I read it, I give it a like, I read and/or contribute to the discussion in a comments section. I want more of this.

If anyone has any links to cool sites that I should check out I'd greatly appreciate it.

117 comments

  1. [26]
    Hobofarmer
    Link
    I really don't have much to say except that I generally agree on vibes. The only thing I enjoy nowadays over the past is discord, as it's a straight improvement over teamspeak. The forum-like...

    I really don't have much to say except that I generally agree on vibes. The only thing I enjoy nowadays over the past is discord, as it's a straight improvement over teamspeak.

    The forum-like aspect of Tildes drew me in, and the content and users and comments are good enough that it was easy to quit reddit for it instead.

    Final thoughts: there is an awful lot of doom spiraling going on on this site (and everywhere else) lately and I'm getting burned out on it.

    97 votes
    1. [14]
      vord
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I get not appreciating the doom spiraling...but a lot of us are doom spiraling IRL so it kinda bleeds over. I have a friend constantly complaining about how political everything is right now, and...

      I get not appreciating the doom spiraling...but a lot of us are doom spiraling IRL so it kinda bleeds over.

      I have a friend constantly complaining about how political everything is right now, and it's like "they're dismantling every useful federal service and climate change mitigation and you expect things not to be political?"

      And while that is US-centric....it's gonna have worldwide implications when we're ground zero for human-transmitted bird flu with 0 data on infected population.

      47 votes
      1. [11]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Yeah, I'm in a constant state of "new thing that really sucks" "What's the impact on my students" "What's the impact on my job, me, my family, and everyone else" "Thats so fucking illegal" "Who's...

        Yeah, I'm in a constant state of

        "new thing that really sucks"
        "What's the impact on my students"
        "What's the impact on my job, me, my family, and everyone else"
        "Thats so fucking illegal"
        "Who's gonna do something, why won't someone do something what could I even do basically nothing"
        "I resolve to find joy, joy is resistance, joy is resi..... New horrible thing"

        It's a spiral just to keep up with what's happening. Social media is mostly helping me get good information, hear about protests and what people can and are doing which helps potential spiraling.

        But idk I've read too many dystopian novels, and too much real history to be able to just not worry about it all.

        24 votes
        1. [7]
          Hobofarmer
          Link Parent
          I'm there with you, I'm struggling too, it's why when I come to spaces like here for support and find more doom it's demoralizing. I want hope, and it's in short supply, and I understand why but...

          I'm there with you, I'm struggling too, it's why when I come to spaces like here for support and find more doom it's demoralizing. I want hope, and it's in short supply, and I understand why but that doesn't make it any easier to handle.

          I want to turn off the news and bury my head in the sand because realistically I can't do much. I teach young students, the best I can do is set a good example and teach them to think critically in the small way I can at their age.

          17 votes
          1. [6]
            DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            The balance of sanity and being informed is really rough right now. I'm trying a "work hard" "play hard" method and allowing myself to be consumed by a book or video as much as I'm letting the...

            The balance of sanity and being informed is really rough right now. I'm trying a "work hard" "play hard" method and allowing myself to be consumed by a book or video as much as I'm letting the news consume me.

            But it's not perfect. I'm trying to throw lifelines of hope when and where I can, but it's the Swamp of Sadness* out here right now. And that's a hard place to survive. But the only way out, for me, is through.

            *I cannot make this reference with my students so I'm hoping y'all get it, or, encourage you to search a clip on YouTube, it's evocative of depression.

            14 votes
            1. [2]
              Hobofarmer
              Link Parent
              I do appreciate your posts by the way - I know that these are trying times for you and despite being in the same liberal state as me, it doesn't make it any easier. Thank you for what you do, to...

              I do appreciate your posts by the way - I know that these are trying times for you and despite being in the same liberal state as me, it doesn't make it any easier.

              Thank you for what you do, to help those in your life and here. I hope a little kindness can go a long way.

              11 votes
              1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                Link Parent
                FWIW I absolutely respect feeling demoralized by all the negative too. It's hard out here right now and folks that filter conversations or topics because of it, or limit their news, etc. are...

                FWIW I absolutely respect feeling demoralized by all the negative too. It's hard out here right now and folks that filter conversations or topics because of it, or limit their news, etc. are engaging in a valid strategy. (As long as you don't ignore it entirely, I do think there's a broad line between being as obsessed as I am and keeping your head in the ground.)

                I'm always looking for hopeful things. I wouldn't mind a "good news" recurring thread for example just to counter balance things.

                10 votes
            2. [3]
              vord
              Link Parent
              Right up there with the Fire Swamp.

              Swamp of Sadness

              Right up there with the Fire Swamp.

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                DefinitelyNotAFae
                Link Parent
                Honestly once you know the secrets of the fire swamp, you can live there quite happily for some time.

                Honestly once you know the secrets of the fire swamp, you can live there quite happily for some time.

                3 votes
                1. vord
                  Link Parent
                  There is a lesson in there somewhere.

                  There is a lesson in there somewhere.

                  5 votes
        2. [3]
          RoyalHenOil
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          It's important to stay abreast of the situation, but don't let it demoralize you; use it to boost your fighting spirit and direct it in useful ways. And, of course, use that information to protect...

          It's important to stay abreast of the situation, but don't let it demoralize you; use it to boost your fighting spirit and direct it in useful ways. And, of course, use that information to protect yourself in the short-to-medium run (for example, building up savings or switching from high-risk investments to low-risk investments in the event of a recession).

          Every war has some battles won and some battles lost, and the aggressor almost always takes the lion's share of early wins; that's just the nature of making the first move. But that doesn't make shock-and-awe tactics good strategy for winning the overall war. There's a tendency for aggressors to become addicted to the glory of overwhelming their enemies, and then they start making blunders and spreading themselves too thin.

          I hope this video can give you as much comfort and resolve as it has given me. They're sprinting in a marathon and hoping that will be enough to convince us to quit; this is their moonshot.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            So, you know that fictional character that keeps walking into the battle, the darkness, the whatever and fighting because someone has to do it, and even though it hurts like hell, if they can last...

            So, you know that fictional character that keeps walking into the battle, the darkness, the whatever and fighting because someone has to do it, and even though it hurts like hell, if they can last just a minute longer, they'll do it to help that many more people?

            When I LARPed my character was that, and in my work and even my day to day life, I'm that. It does mean I trade off by being an absolute lump on the couch when I have no spoons left, but when I need to turn on my work brain or my caretaker brain, its like that switch turns on for me. I'm not a fighter, I can't tank the hits. I'm not good for punching Nazis, I'm not a doctor, but I do save lives all the same. Even if talking about it like that is weird.

            I know it also means someday, something bigger than me takes me down. Despair? Cardiac arrest? A drink driver? Idk, it'll be something. But I have to keep going til then, so I do.

            I appreciate the video, it didn't so much give me hope because though I know these things, I'm seeing people catch those "muzzle velocity" shots. And I'm afraid that the nation might ultimately be saved but at the cost of trans lives among many, many others.

            So I'm running as fast as I can to keep up.

            2 votes
            1. DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              It's worth noting, an hour after this post, a comment was made here on Tildes about how trans rights were not the fight to have, and maybe even it would be right for someone to be upset that it...

              It's worth noting, an hour after this post, a comment was made here on Tildes about how trans rights were not the fight to have, and maybe even it would be right for someone to be upset that it was a trans person who was making them feel uncomfortable "in some edge cases"

              And then contrasted trans women with "actual" women.

              So yeah, I'm feeling very much like the shots are landing and "it's not worth fighting for trans people" will continue to get louder

      2. HeroesJourneyMadness
        Link Parent
        Hello fellow doom spiralers. It’s hard. I would just like to add- fully on board with all of this and I’m sorry for my current bout of increasingly dark takes of late. I can recommend drawing....

        Hello fellow doom spiralers.

        It’s hard. I would just like to add- fully on board with all of this and I’m sorry for my current bout of increasingly dark takes of late.

        I can recommend drawing. Just doodles. It helps.

        11 votes
      3. RoyalHenOil
        Link Parent
        It's not as bad as it looks. This is no time to be complacent (on the contrary!), but these are shock-and-awe tactics designed to make their victory seem inescapable. They mean to cow us before we...

        It's not as bad as it looks. This is no time to be complacent (on the contrary!), but these are shock-and-awe tactics designed to make their victory seem inescapable. They mean to cow us before we can discover how much of it is bluster.

        For example, they're claiming that they've muscled Panama into a one-sided agreement, but this is an outright lie. They want us to think that Panama, Canada, Mexico, etc. are falling to their demands like dominoes.

        These are not the tactics of someone with a strong hand. These are the tactics of someone who's studied their cards and decided their best strategy is to terrorize the table into folding.

        2 votes
    2. [3]
      lynxy
      Link Parent
      There is a certain amount of doom spiralling, I won't deny that, but a large portion of the complaints are perfectly justified push-back against the way in which technological advancements (that...

      There is a certain amount of doom spiralling, I won't deny that, but a large portion of the complaints are perfectly justified push-back against the way in which technological advancements (that effect all of us- we can't avoid them without disappearing off into the woods and living in a van) have been twisted and corrupted by big tech companies. Are you saying that people shouldn't be openly dissatisfied by this? It's frustrating, and I wish there was more we could do besides trying to avoid the walled gardens and content slop as best we can.

      28 votes
      1. [2]
        Hobofarmer
        Link Parent
        I suppose that it comes off that way, my apologies if it seems I'm downplaying the terrible events that are happening. I elaborated elsewhere in this thread, following a comment from definitely...

        Are you saying that people shouldn't be openly dissatisfied by this?

        I suppose that it comes off that way, my apologies if it seems I'm downplaying the terrible events that are happening.

        I elaborated elsewhere in this thread, following a comment from definitely not a fae, I hope that explains a bit better.

        I should probably filter everything out, but there's a big dose of FOMO there, that I'll miss something really important. How do I do that effectively while keeping my sanity intact, I wonder?

        6 votes
        1. crialpaca
          Link Parent
          This is a balance I'm also trying to strike. So far, I've kind of made myself some guidelines of "is the discussion in this thread valuable to me (yet)?" If there's a topic that looks like it's...

          This is a balance I'm also trying to strike. So far, I've kind of made myself some guidelines of "is the discussion in this thread valuable to me (yet)?" If there's a topic that looks like it's important, but the conversation hasn't developed yet, I'll come back to it later maybe. If the conversation has developed and I scroll through it and my FOMO is satisfied that the conversation won't help me or something, I'll Ignore the thread. If I find myself having negative feelings, I back out of the thread as soon as I've learned whatever I think is necessary. Kind of self-modulating my intake of the doom. The state of the news / the world right now really makes me wonder what it would have been like a century ago, before information traveled in seconds.

          3 votes
    3. [7]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      I highly recommend blocking donald trump and elon musk in your topic tag filters. If you want even more blocked, add politics and usa.politics. There will still be some downer stuff on your feed,...

      I highly recommend blocking donald trump and elon musk in your topic tag filters.

      If you want even more blocked, add politics and usa.politics.

      There will still be some downer stuff on your feed, but these filters get rid of the bulk of it. Makes Tildes feel a little smaller (in a good way) and cozier.

      If you're worried about missing out on something, there's a link right at the top of your feed that lets you see the site without any filters. You can click that to temporarily "check in" on anything that has been blocked, and then go right back to having it filtered out whenever you're ready.

      I genuinely cannot recommend this enough, to you and to anyone else it might help.

      Note: I don't think it's currently possible to view the unfiltered feed if you're using the Three Cheers app (but someone please correct me if I'm wrong!)

      14 votes
      1. [6]
        Deimos
        Link Parent
        Tag filters are still a good idea to try to cover everything, but unsubscribing from ~society will probably be the most effective. One of the main reasons for creating it was so that it would be...

        Tag filters are still a good idea to try to cover everything, but unsubscribing from ~society will probably be the most effective. One of the main reasons for creating it was so that it would be simpler for people to be able to avoid the constant flood of US politics.

        (@Hobofarmer)

        14 votes
        1. [3]
          vord
          Link Parent
          In that vein I propose ~society.dumpsterfire for all US-related politics until 2028 or so.

          In that vein I propose ~society.dumpsterfire for all US-related politics until 2028 or so.

          8 votes
          1. [2]
            Amarok
            Link Parent
            Only until 2028? You're such an optimist. ;)

            Only until 2028? You're such an optimist. ;)

            4 votes
            1. vord
              Link Parent
              We'll revisit in 2027, but at the rate we'll be going we'll be sitting around campfires gnawing on Toby's leg before then.

              We'll revisit in 2027, but at the rate we'll be going we'll be sitting around campfires gnawing on Toby's leg before then.

              3 votes
        2. [2]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          To be honest, I kind of feel that ~society has the unintended side effect of making the rest of Tildes really slow down. I checked the groups page and the daily activity eclipses every single...

          To be honest, I kind of feel that ~society has the unintended side effect of making the rest of Tildes really slow down. I checked the groups page and the daily activity eclipses every single group except the second most active group, ~games.

          6 votes
          1. Amarok
            Link Parent
            For what it is worth, that's typical in my experience. The old phpbb forum I ran for our EQ server's community had a politics forum, and that was about 30% of the forum's total traffic. This was...

            For what it is worth, that's typical in my experience. The old phpbb forum I ran for our EQ server's community had a politics forum, and that was about 30% of the forum's total traffic. This was pre-9/11 when politics was a dull, boring affair that Clintons were trying to make sexy. It's a hotter topic now so I'm sure that 30% figure would be higher today. Politics tends to be 'current events' oriented which means there is always new stuff to talk about , and Trump has the ludicrous speed dial cranked up to plaid.

            10 votes
    4. raze2012
      Link Parent
      I apologize. Sadly this feels like the only place I can get actual conversation out of these topics, so it can be a good place to vent about the state of the world. My friend groups don't want to...

      Final thoughts: there is an awful lot of doom spiraling going on on this site (and everywhere else) lately and I'm getting burned out on it.

      I apologize. Sadly this feels like the only place I can get actual conversation out of these topics, so it can be a good place to vent about the state of the world. My friend groups don't want to make things too political, and I deleted reddit long ago. Hacker News' important stories just get flagged and hidden which stifles discussion.

      This place has a good blend of community, relatively quality conversation, and most of the political stuff can be contained in ~society so that it doesn't bleed too much to the entire site.

      But given the current tech industry it's a bit inevitable to have that stuff bleed here into ~tech.

      12 votes
  2. [37]
    mat
    Link
    I mean.. if you don't like it.. just turn your computer off. Read a book or something. Whittle a spoon. Nobody is making you spend time on the internet. Occasional use such as booking tickets or...

    I mean.. if you don't like it.. just turn your computer off. Read a book or something. Whittle a spoon.

    Nobody is making you spend time on the internet. Occasional use such as booking tickets or similar admin jobs aside (and frankly those things are far less painful than the old way anyway). You don't have to have a job with a computer. My job doesn't really involve one, a few bits of admin stuff notwithstanding. I don't even have a desk.

    I have friends who simply aren't really online. They do a lot of gardening. Computers don't really exist in their houses. If you want to talk to them you have to use a phone (well, Whatsapp, they're not cavepeople). They go to the libary to look stuff up, and to actual places with people in to socialise. It's do-able if that's what you want.

    48 votes
    1. [19]
      Vito
      Link Parent
      I've been a teacher for 10 years. I'm the rare tildes user who is terrible with technology. This is literally the only social media I have installed on my phone and use. But with the pandemic and...

      I've been a teacher for 10 years. I'm the rare tildes user who is terrible with technology. This is literally the only social media I have installed on my phone and use. But with the pandemic and since then, my job has forced me to teach online. I don't think using computers is as optional as you think.

      54 votes
      1. [18]
        mat
        Link Parent
        You don't have to remain a teacher. You probably want to be and it's a very important job - but you could do something else if you really really want to not sit at a computer. It depends on how...

        You don't have to remain a teacher. You probably want to be and it's a very important job - but you could do something else if you really really want to not sit at a computer. It depends on how your priorities balance out, that's all. It is ultimately a choice you make every morning to go to your job - nobody has a gun to your head. You probably have various threats near your head like a mortgage, debts, kids and so on, but it's not quite the same thing.

        I'm on career three right now and I doubt it'll be the last. I spent over a decade as a sysadmin and web developer. Then one day I didn't. I get bored. Circumstances change.

        11 votes
        1. [11]
          ConalFisher
          Link Parent
          And you must recognise that it is absolutely a privilege to be in a position where you can simply change your job because you "got bored" of the old one. A lot of people don't have that option,...

          And you must recognise that it is absolutely a privilege to be in a position where you can simply change your job because you "got bored" of the old one. A lot of people don't have that option, not without risking their entire livelihood and any people who might depend on them having income. There are a lot of people out there who hate their jobs for whatever reasons, but can't change because the potential consequences of failing would be disastrous.

          72 votes
          1. mat
            Link Parent
            Yes, to an extent. But I wasn't some trust fund kid just wafting around without any worries or responsibilities. When I finally walked out of my last office job (for reasons more complex and...

            Yes, to an extent. But I wasn't some trust fund kid just wafting around without any worries or responsibilities. When I finally walked out of my last office job (for reasons more complex and unpleasant than just boredom), I had £700 in the bank and £400 rent due in a week.

            These days I'd do it with a bit more planning because I have more people and things depending on me. It might take a year, maybe more. Wouldn't be easy because I am still by no means rich or secure, but if I wanted it enough, I'd get it done. I am lucky to be able to do that, but I'm not that lucky.

            9 votes
          2. krellor
            Link Parent
            Well, if the issue is that you have to use a computer for work, I don't see how that plays as much into the concerns. If you need to browse the web for work, use work computers or VM's, work...

            Well, if the issue is that you have to use a computer for work, I don't see how that plays as much into the concerns. If you need to browse the web for work, use work computers or VM's, work software, make work accounts for the apps. Let your work get spied on if they don't take measures to avoid it. That should be a best practice anyway, keeping work and personal activities completely separate.

            At home you said you're all in on gnu, so you know you can self host just about anything you want and are tech savvy enough to layer on protections. Using Adguard DNS, Firefox with heightened privacy settings, ublock origin, privacy badger, and umatrix and I don't even get ads, even when they are embedded in an app. And for other things, like email, you can self host or use services like mxroute. I've self hosted email, team speak, etc, for years.

            You can't control the Internet, and I agree it does suck. But you can control where and how you spend your time, and what services or tech you use. You absolutely can disconnect from things like Reddit in your personal life. If your job requires it then use job resources and accounts.

            7 votes
          3. [8]
            PendingKetchup
            Link Parent
            Do the people who are so constrained that they cannot take essentially any action need to feature in the discourse as prominently as they do? And when they do feature, should they be placed like...

            Do the people who are so constrained that they cannot take essentially any action need to feature in the discourse as prominently as they do? And when they do feature, should they be placed like this as a sort of rebuttal or necessary caveat to proposals that people do things? Or do they belong in the other conversational turn, as evidence that things must be done?

            One can also say: You don't need to be a teacher. You can Just Walk Out and do something else instead. This is a risk for anyone to do, and for some people that risk would be so great that they could not rationally, or even irrationally-but-sanely, choose that course of action. This is additional evidence that all those who can, should, in order to damage whatever system is causing the problem that motivates people to leave.

            The civil rights fight involved a lot of boycotting busses by those least well-positioned to do so. It actually worked really well.

            If, say, network effects are trapping the sex workers on Twitter, the correct response seems less like acknowledging that some people can't quit Twitter as if "people who can't quit Twitter" are themselves a minoritized group, and more like advocating that people quit Twitter even harder.

            10 votes
            1. [7]
              arch
              Link Parent
              Your comment adds literally nothing to the conversation, here. You draw false equivalences. It's extremely difficult for me to pull my rationale far enough to believe the you equate quitting...

              Your comment adds literally nothing to the conversation, here. You draw false equivalences. It's extremely difficult for me to pull my rationale far enough to believe the you equate quitting Twitter to someone quitting a career. A teacher has gone to school for four years to earn a degree to be able to do that job. They have spent at a minimum tens of thousands of dollars on that career path, they likely have a pension tied to their state of work and stand to loose significant retirement income if they leave early, they likely have years, perhaps decades of training and experience in the career.

              You might as well go and read Vladimir Nabokov's Invitation to a Beheading as a realistic advice on how to escape Kafkaesque persecution.

              23 votes
              1. Vito
                Link Parent
                There's another option for me too. I could commit a serious crime and turn myself in. Then I would be in jail, without worrying about rent or paying for food, and I wouldn't even be bothered with...

                There's another option for me too. I could commit a serious crime and turn myself in. Then I would be in jail, without worrying about rent or paying for food, and I wouldn't even be bothered with using technology.

                There are always options of course.

                I don't think complaining about an aspect of your job means you should quit.

                13 votes
              2. [3]
                updawg
                Link Parent
                Relating things does not require equating them. Additionally, I don't believe you actually read the comment. They said that for some, quitting would be an insane decision that could not possibly...

                Relating things does not require equating them.

                Additionally, I don't believe you actually read the comment. They said that for some, quitting would be an insane decision that could not possibly be worth it. They then said that is a reason that the other people, who can afford to quit while still being totally sane and rational, should do so.

                But instead of reading it, you chose to tell them they aren't adding anything and then unwittingly agree with them.

                In fact, not only are you in agreement, but their position is an even stronger version of yours. This is why I'm sick of the vapid moralizing on this site. Discourse has been reaching reddit levels over the past several months.

                8 votes
                1. [2]
                  arch
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  [edit] I am going to, hopefully not too disrespectfully, bow out from any further discussion in this post. I just want to let any readers know that before they delve into my thoughts below,...

                  [edit] I am going to, hopefully not too disrespectfully, bow out from any further discussion in this post. I just want to let any readers know that before they delve into my thoughts below, because they likely won't get any response from me if they want one. I don't want to add to any further surprisingly heated discussion on this topic. I do wish everyone I've been talking to here the best, and I hope no one has a bad day because of this conversation.

                  We are certainly allowed to read the same comment and come to different conclusions on it. I don't exactly think calling me vapid and moralizing is helpful, or trying to understand my standpoint in any way. I do, personally, think I have a differing opinion from the one given by /u/PendingKetchup. From my reading they are stating that we should walk away instead of trying to change from the inside. And since some people can't, then anyone who can should. I don't think that's helpful, or realistic, or likely to accomplish anything. The public school system is not the for profit private bus industry. Why would protesting like during the civil rights movement make sense for whatever it is we're even talking about doing here? Hence my reference to Invitation to a Beheading a short story at the end of which a prisoner either just gets up from beneath the headsman and walks away, or his spirit does at least. Because that is what the advice for anyone who is unhappy with the changes their career path is taking sounds the most like to me. Especially when it comes to technology, which is everywhere and will continue to be everywhere for the rest of our lives, until our spirit finally gets up and walks away from it.

                  Do try to bear in mind that this is all in response to a comment telling people to find a job without technology, then a reply from a teacher stating that online teaching is a requirement since COVID and it's drastically harder than people think to avoid technology, and an immediate response reiterating, "you don't have to remain a teacher". Then further down a call for protest quitting of public school teachers who are able to do so, leaving those who can't further entrenched. I don't follow the logic. What is being protested? How will be people left behind even know there is a protest?

                  If an employee states a concern with the technology in their role, we should be engaging with them in the conversation and not outright dismissing them. If it boils down to "I don't know how to use a phone" then they can get additional training, or take a free course at the local library. It only really makes sense for them to leave if the complaint is I can't/don't ever want to learn how to use X technology. But when it comes to remote learning we are likely to legitimately be seeing that a class of over 20 six years olds cannot be taught phonetic spelling effectively over zoom. I don't know what the case was for the teacher who posted, though. You know why I don't know? Because the knee jerk response of this vapid moralizing website was "you don't have to remain a teacher". No follow up questions, no discussion of what they're actually thinking, feeling or saying.

                  8 votes
                  1. kingofsnake
                    Link Parent
                    Great response. The way they addressed this is pretty deserving of how you responded, though from the outside, the implication that it's on each of us to roll with the punches life throws (however...

                    Great response. The way they addressed this is pretty deserving of how you responded, though from the outside, the implication that it's on each of us to roll with the punches life throws (however insensitive and reductive their statement was) is also valid.

                    Love seeing a little heat here on Tildes - I hope that you both are feeling ok after it.

                    4 votes
              3. kingofsnake
                Link Parent
                I wouldn't shut somebody down just because of how they present an argument. Discuss their point on its merits, which I agree, need to be explored further.

                I wouldn't shut somebody down just because of how they present an argument. Discuss their point on its merits, which I agree, need to be explored further.

                3 votes
              4. PendingKetchup
                Link Parent
                I don't actually think a teacher ought to quit just because their job now contains computers. It is often better to stay and fight than to bail. I wanted to start a conversation about the...

                I don't actually think a teacher ought to quit just because their job now contains computers. It is often better to stay and fight than to bail. I wanted to start a conversation about the rhetorical move and why bailing (or even fighting to the point where it creates a Problem) should more often be considered a legitimate option that people should be assumed to have by default.

        2. [2]
          gimmemahlulz
          Link Parent
          Unless you're in a military service, then they quite literally do. Or you're the average American who's living paycheck to paycheck than even loosing a single one due to moving jobs could mean...

          nobody has a gun to your head

          Unless you're in a military service, then they quite literally do.

          Or you're the average American who's living paycheck to paycheck than even loosing a single one due to moving jobs could mean homelessness or just straight-up not eating for a week or two.

          Not everyone is privileged with wide job prospects and the ability to move.

          28 votes
          1. updawg
            Link Parent
            Even in the military, the worst case scenario is imprisonment for a few months with other people who have passed background checks. You'd get a dishonorable discharge and it would be hard to work...

            Even in the military, the worst case scenario is imprisonment for a few months with other people who have passed background checks. You'd get a dishonorable discharge and it would be hard to work again, but you're not getting killed over desertion.

            5 votes
        3. [3]
          chocobean
          Link Parent
          My friend. My elderly neighbour needs me to email her documents in order to get insurance. She needs the Internet to apply for all kinds of financial aid aimed at seniors. She needs the Internet...

          My friend. My elderly neighbour needs me to email her documents in order to get insurance. She needs the Internet to apply for all kinds of financial aid aimed at seniors. She needs the Internet to book medical applications and I'm fairly certain one day her family doctor, the local financial co-op will also require it and then there's nothing else in her life it don't touch.

          Gun near your head is not something most people can be chill about and have options around.

          26 votes
          1. [2]
            mat
            Link Parent
            Perhaps I should edit my post to say "nobody has a gun to your head making you use the internet for non-essential things" Obviously we all need some internet access for occasional admin jobs. But...

            Perhaps I should edit my post to say "nobody has a gun to your head making you use the internet for non-essential things"

            Obviously we all need some internet access for occasional admin jobs. But they're just that. Occasional admin jobs. Even my most technology-avoiding friends still have email addresses and bank accounts and so on. I might suggest that still a world away from "hanging out" online.

            15 votes
            1. chocobean
              Link Parent
              Definitely agree with you on that :) as we ironically have this conversation on the internet. This is a good, non enshittified corner though, a small platform to rest on before we go back to...

              Definitely agree with you on that :) as we ironically have this conversation on the internet. This is a good, non enshittified corner though, a small platform to rest on before we go back to treading water.

              8 votes
        4. Vito
          Link Parent
          I understand that. I just wanted to point out an example of a job that I didn't get into using computers and has transformed into one that does.

          I understand that. I just wanted to point out an example of a job that I didn't get into using computers and has transformed into one that does.

          21 votes
    2. [3]
      Perryapsis
      Link Parent
      One exception is finding employment. You literally can't get a job by showing up and handing over a resume or phoning the boss anymore. Like, companies don't even have a system to process an...

      Nobody is making you spend time on the internet.

      One exception is finding employment. You literally can't get a job by showing up and handing over a resume or phoning the boss anymore. Like, companies don't even have a system to process an application that way. But that's tangential to you broader point.

      29 votes
      1. geniusraunchyassman
        Link Parent
        You can still get away with this at small businesses. We’ve hired several walk ins / people who called. Heck, one guy met the owner at the park and asked for a job after a short conversation. He...

        You can still get away with this at small businesses. We’ve hired several walk ins / people who called.

        Heck, one guy met the owner at the park and asked for a job after a short conversation. He worked here for a few years.

        Networking is more important than anything. My spouse got their job because their mom cleaned the hiring manager’s teeth.

        9 votes
      2. BashCrandiboot
        Link Parent
        Just another algorithm people now have to figure out how to game.

        Just another algorithm people now have to figure out how to game.

        8 votes
    3. [5]
      ConalFisher
      Link Parent
      Perhaps I am trying to have my cake and eat it too. The fact is that I don't hate the internet: I hate what it has become. I wish it hadn't turned out this way. But it has, and that makes me...

      Perhaps I am trying to have my cake and eat it too. The fact is that I don't hate the internet: I hate what it has become. I wish it hadn't turned out this way. But it has, and that makes me angry. There isn't anything I can really do about it except look for alternatives, both online and offline. This post is about me trying to curate my computer use in a way that aligns with what I believe is how technology "should" be, without all the algorithms and everything trying to sell me something. I know there are other things I can do, but I like this computer thing that I do as well.

      I have lots of hobbies outside of my computer, but I have lots of hobbies on the computer too. Those hobbies used to be a lot less of a hassle. I like to read a lot of books. If a mob stormed into my local library and started burning the place down I wouldn't simply go "well, guess I'll stop reading and go find a new hobby then". I would, at the very least, call the police in an attempt to get them to stop burning the library down. Perhaps I'd look somewhere else in the meantime to try and find books. And I would most definitely be angry at the people who decided to burn the library down.

      28 votes
      1. [3]
        Akir
        Link Parent
        You should take the time to acknowledge the fact that the internet is not just the handful of megacorporations that everyone is in bed with. You like Tildes right? The small-ish collective of...
        • Exemplary

        You should take the time to acknowledge the fact that the internet is not just the handful of megacorporations that everyone is in bed with.

        You like Tildes right? The small-ish collective of people on a well moderated forum getting along? Well guess what - that’s not at all uncommon. Tildes might be something of an island, but it’s not the only island in the sea. And our sea is not even the only body of water on the planet. If you can get over the language barrier you even have other planets to look through.

        People keep joking on how Elon Musk keeps wanting to build X as the Everything App, as if it’s a bad thing, but the truth is that everyone actually wants that. They don’t want to have a place to talk to people, they want their voice to be heard by everyone. Pretty much every single time I have asked someone why they are on Twitter in spite of how much they hate it, it’s because they want to be part of what they imagine to be the global discourse. The irony, of course, is that there never has been nor ever will be a global discourse; there are far too many people for everyone to have a voice and everyone to understand what everyone is trying to say.

        I’ve ranted about this subject a few times in the past. There is no “The Internet”. Pretending that that is the way the internet actually works just empowers the shitty platforms that make up that model to become even more shitty. Divest from the shit, and keep spending time telling your friends how much better your life has become so they can eventually join you.

        And yes, saying that you can’t leave because you only contact a friend through that platform is a cop-out. A friend is someone you do things for, and if you can’t be arsed to write them the occasional email or call them then you are just overly familiar acquaintances.

        41 votes
        1. [2]
          papasquat
          Link Parent
          There is definitely a "The Internet". It's just that "The Internet" is used as a metonym for a single overarching internet culture that doesn't actually exist. "The Internet" is literally an...

          There is no “The Internet”.

          There is definitely a "The Internet". It's just that "The Internet" is used as a metonym for a single overarching internet culture that doesn't actually exist.

          "The Internet" is literally an internetwork of seperate networks all communicating via the internet protocol. It's not actually the people that use the internet, which is the majority of humanity at this point, in the same way that "the white house" is a building, not the office of the president of the United States, even though we use it that way.

          5 votes
          1. Akir
            Link Parent
            That’s precisely why I put that phrase in quotation marks. You’re reading my argument back to me, essentially.

            That’s precisely why I put that phrase in quotation marks. You’re reading my argument back to me, essentially.

            13 votes
      2. PendingKetchup
        Link Parent
        One thing that a lot of the old stuff had in common is that it was built by individuals or small groups. The online games that are lootbox casino-fests are also made by teams of thousands. No one...

        One thing that a lot of the old stuff had in common is that it was built by individuals or small groups. The online games that are lootbox casino-fests are also made by teams of thousands. No one artist would make something with such little respect for its audience.

        So there is something you can do about it besides look for alternatives: you can construct alternatives. There's that guy trying to build ActivityPub competitors to Instagram, TikTok, and now I hear Tumblr, all at the same time. Will every quixotic project like this succeed? Of course not. But are you capable of, say, publishing a number of high-quality book reviews? Joining a webring about one of your hobbies? Drawing a scribble in MS Paint? Absolutely.

        The worst thing about the current Internet is it silences users. If you're posting things fishing for likes and re-whatevers, and scrolling through an infinite number of other posts with more of each than you seem to get, you stop talking.

        27 votes
    4. [9]
      DeaconBlue
      Link Parent
      I have the hardest possible disagreement to this statement. Trying to purchase event tickets online is such an annoying and painful process now that I have opted out of live shows in general....

      Occasional use such as booking tickets or similar admin jobs aside (and frankly those things are far less painful than the old way anyway

      I have the hardest possible disagreement to this statement.

      Trying to purchase event tickets online is such an annoying and painful process now that I have opted out of live shows in general. Ticketmaster and its ilk have ruined live shows. The only events that I buy tickets for anymore are ones that I can get from the box office in town (which is a small and dwindling number).

      20 votes
      1. [7]
        mat
        Link Parent
        Fair, for you. But from my point of view, most of the things I buy tickets or make bookings for for have nothing to do with Ticketmaster. Trains, cinema, hotels, campsites, theatres, gigs at local...

        Fair, for you. But from my point of view, most of the things I buy tickets or make bookings for for have nothing to do with Ticketmaster. Trains, cinema, hotels, campsites, theatres, gigs at local venues, small festivals and events.

        Anything to do with government admin is orders of magnitude easier online. If I had to tax my car in the Olde Dayes I had to go to a place with some bits of paper, queue up, fill in more bits of paper, etc. etc. Now it's literally two minutes of using one of the most well-designed websites on the planet.

        19 votes
        1. papasquat
          Link Parent
          It honestly depends. I would say for 99% of stuff, doing it online is easier if you're using the normal, expected workflow and not doing anything out of the ordinary. As soon as you have some...

          It honestly depends. I would say for 99% of stuff, doing it online is easier if you're using the normal, expected workflow and not doing anything out of the ordinary.

          As soon as you have some problem, or are doing something that wasn't expected or accounted for by the developers of the site, everything falls apart and getting a hold of someone that 1. Cares, 2. Can help you, and 3. Is allowed to help you is an absolute fucking nightmare. Which I think is the point.

          8 votes
        2. [5]
          cutmetal
          Link Parent
          It's amazing how different our experiences are. I'm a resident of one of the richest and most left-leaning states in the US, and the 4-5 government websites I can think of having used range from...

          one of the most well-designed websites on the planet

          It's amazing how different our experiences are. I'm a resident of one of the richest and most left-leaning states in the US, and the 4-5 government websites I can think of having used range from "mid" to "surely among the worst websites operating on the planet today."

          8 votes
          1. [4]
            mat
            Link Parent
            https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ provide all their resources - code, design patterns, styles, etc - under an open license, point your local administration at them forthwith! I honestly wasn't...

            https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ provide all their resources - code, design patterns, styles, etc - under an open license, point your local administration at them forthwith!

            I honestly wasn't exaggerating when I said one of the most well-designed websites on earth. http://gov.uk is an absolute masterclass in accessible, usable design and it's been that way for a long time. It's not 100% there yet, you still occasionally stumble over some Geocities-era looking horror, but for anything any amount of people have to do regularly, it's a pleasure to use.

            13 votes
            1. kingofsnake
              Link Parent
              Yup - the North American experience with public web services and e-infrastructure is dwarfed by how integrated and amazing it is in Asia and Europe. If we're not there already, North America will...

              Yup - the North American experience with public web services and e-infrastructure is dwarfed by how integrated and amazing it is in Asia and Europe.

              If we're not there already, North America will soon learn how regressive and backward we look when compared to the rest of the world when it comes to tech.

              6 votes
            2. [2]
              updawg
              Link Parent
              gov.uk on a phone honestly looks like one of those pages that domain registrars leave up when a website shuts down.

              gov.uk on a phone honestly looks like one of those pages that domain registrars leave up when a website shuts down.

              1. mat
                Link Parent
                That is true. But don't mistake "not pretty" for "not usable". Airports are often the example I use. An airport has to be navigable by someone not that smart who is in a rush, hasn't slept well,...

                That is true. But don't mistake "not pretty" for "not usable". Airports are often the example I use. An airport has to be navigable by someone not that smart who is in a rush, hasn't slept well, is still a bit pissed and doesn't speak much of the local language. That's why the signs are huge and everywhere, and why if you're moderately capable and can read English, airports are almost insultingly easy - because they're not designed for you. Same same.

                Gov.uk has to be usable by someone not that smart who is in a rush, anxious about doing Official Stuff and doesn't speak much of the local language. It's big, clear controls; high contrast text, well spaced in narrow columns - and the style guide specifies a maximum reading age of nine years old. When you get into actually doing something, like paying tax or finding information about... well, anything really - the workflow is simple and smooth and well explained. It's superb. Anyone making any kind of web service which is to be used by humans should at least read their design patterns before doing anything. It's cheaper and faster than reading a book on usability!

                10 votes
      2. cdb
        Link Parent
        I have the complete opposite opinion on this. Recently, I was driving with my wife in the passenger seat. She mentioned that an artist that I like will be performing in town, and I said I'd want...

        I have the complete opposite opinion on this.

        Recently, I was driving with my wife in the passenger seat. She mentioned that an artist that I like will be performing in town, and I said I'd want to go see them. Within a minute we had tickets sent to our email addresses. No phone calls. No waiting at the box office. No interruption to my day at all. I feel like it's easier than it's ever been to buy event tickets. To be able to accomplish tasks like this in what used to be downtime makes me feel like we're living in the future.

        Well, this is for a relatively small time artist. For mega stars with concerts that have 100,000 people competing for 50,000 seats, that's more of an economics and large society problem than a tech problem.

        8 votes
  3. [5]
    winther
    Link
    While I agree in principle, I also think it is important to realize that we never lost our options to engage with the web differently. The old web never went away, it just a bit more effort to...

    While I agree in principle, I also think it is important to realize that we never lost our options to engage with the web differently. The old web never went away, it just a bit more effort to find as it is not optimized by SEO or for the content algorithms on social media. Most of the enshittification applies to the so called "free" services, which by their very definition aren't made with you as an user in mind, but advertisers. Of course it is going to turn user hostile.

    The harder part to escape is the hardware. It is especially annoying that it is practically impossible to get a dumb TV, as every TV is filled with adware and spyware. Which can be remedied with blocking its outgoing DNS traffic or simply not connect it to the internet, but it is silly that it has to be that way.

    38 votes
    1. ButteredToast
      Link Parent
      Though it’s gotten a bit more difficult there are still paths to sanity in the TV space. The main thing I’d recommend here is to look for TVs running Android specifically, for two reasons: Many...

      Though it’s gotten a bit more difficult there are still paths to sanity in the TV space.

      The main thing I’d recommend here is to look for TVs running Android specifically, for two reasons:

      1. Many newer (2020+) Android smart TVs come with “basic TV mode”, which disables most of the smarts and makes the TV function like a dumb TV
      2. Because they’re just running bog standard Android, you can hook the TV up to a computer via USB and disable or remove any packages you don’t want (like content recognition/spyware) as well as install what you do want using tools like adb (Android Debug Bridge).

      Additionally, midrange and up models from more “premium” brands tend to be better behaved. Sony Bravia TVs for example will not gripe at you about being kept offline, come with a build of Android TV that adds almost nothing extra, and can have their firmware updated offline with a flash drive. Yes they’re not cheap but not having to fight my TV is worth it to me personally, and they’re great TVs anyway.

      Unfortunately that rules out a lot of makers. Samsung TVs run Tizen, LG TVs run webOS, and a lot of budget TVs run either Roku’s OS or Amazon’s off-brand Android.

      14 votes
    2. Pavouk106
      Link Parent
      Smart TV can be remedied by using Raspberry Pi with LibreELEC running Kodi. It's not that streamlined but I would bet my money on it being still perfectly functional even after your smart TV gets...

      Smart TV can be remedied by using Raspberry Pi with LibreELEC running Kodi. It's not that streamlined but I would bet my money on it being still perfectly functional even after your smart TV gets cut off by manufacturer (you have it for too long and they are no longer keeping your old TV up-to-date, so go buy new one).

      I have so called smart TV from 2011. All the "smart" is 10+ years dead on it. But it still works prefectly fine as a dumb TV, so I just hooked up Kodi and after 14 years I still use it as my primery TV at home. And if it ever dies, I will buy new TV and hook up Kodi right when I get home, the new TV would never know that internet exists, it will serve only as audio and video output.

      10 votes
    3. updawg
      Link Parent
      Unfortunately, the old web did go away. The phpbb forum I used to love is gone. There's a Discord server now, but I've never felt any motivation to participate. Social media sites no longer have...

      Unfortunately, the old web did go away. The phpbb forum I used to love is gone. There's a Discord server now, but I've never felt any motivation to participate. Social media sites no longer have the features or social connections that used to make them good. What made the old web good is largely gone.

      6 votes
    4. zod000
      Link Parent
      Not to derail the purpose of the main topic, but I have recently purchased a new non-smart TV and it was very affordable (Sceptre sells them on Amazon very reasonably). Sceptre is not knowing for...

      Not to derail the purpose of the main topic, but I have recently purchased a new non-smart TV and it was very affordable (Sceptre sells them on Amazon very reasonably). Sceptre is not knowing for making high end televisions, but they are good enough and I have no complaints for the price. You can also buy business displays from Samsung that are not smart that probably have better panels and speakers. They run for quite a bit more, but it may be worth it to you personally.

      4 votes
  4. [8]
    Eji1700
    Link
    Eh. There's a lot of bad out there, but there's also a ton of good. Some of it requires running the right software to stop/block/ignore the bad. I use firefox + ublock on almost everything...
    • Exemplary

    I think most people would agree that the internet and technology in general have absolutely gone to shit over the past decade or so. There is no corner of the internet nor of the software world that hasn't been affected by enshittification. Everything exists to serve you ads. Everyone wants to extract as much money from you as possible. Every website is in a race for the bottom as they try to find the lowest effort content that makes them the most money. Every piece of software is pushed out half-baked and/or stripped down to the bare minimum with the rest paywalled or with the devs pinky promising to fix it 5 updates down the road.

    Eh. There's a lot of bad out there, but there's also a ton of good. Some of it requires running the right software to stop/block/ignore the bad. I use firefox + ublock on almost everything (learning to use ublock to actually block site elements is trivial and a massive QOL improvement for a ton of sites).

    Every social medium is just bots. The front page of Reddit is easily 35% easily detectable bots at least and who knows what the rest is comprised of. And it's probably the one that's doing the best at the moment, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, all of them are just bots and propaganda and engagement farming the whole way down. And the worst thing is, they're complicit. Hell, they're actively encouraging it and trying to find ways to make it worse. And I have no doubt Reddit will bend the knee soon enough too (they just banned /r/whitepeopletwitter because Musk made a tweet critical of the sub).

    Another eh to a point. I don't think they're just bots. I think low effort content has the widest appeal. The reason i started going to reddit was because even if there was something kinda low effort, you usually could find interesting conversations about the topic at hand.

    Now almost every comment is a joke or some vapid speculation, and if it's not one of those, the replies are. I still sometimes will click on a comment thread hoping to learn more about the subject, but it's either rampant speculation or "lol puns/sex joke/popular meme".

    Point being though this isn't bots. It's people.

    There's probably some element of rose-tinted glasses here, but the old internet was just so much better looking back. Like, early 2000's to maybe 2012, 2013 or so, that was the peak. No colossal data harvesting schemes feeding into algorithms designed to keep you engaged on their site 24/7 for the purpose of shilling you advertisements and selling your data, no mass propaganda, no Dead Internet Theory (which can hardly be considered a theory anymore). Yeah there was shit content, there was tons of it, but I can deal with shit content and petty forum drama and whatnot; what I can't deal with is all the multi-billion dollar corporations trying to shape the entire landscape of the Web into the perfectly minmaxxed cash-generating machine that does as little as possible for as much data and advertising as possible.

    Again to some extent the corps are just filling the need. Fewer people were really using the internet in their day to day in 2000's. Now everyone is, and this is what everyone wants. It doesn't help that the early internet set the standard of "well i'm not paying for that" so what other option do you have to fund all of this than ads and data harvesting? If you want to pay for your websites, then great, but otherwise...

    And in that note is somewhat why we see the death of forums. The newer forum models suck imo, but the older ones aren't well supported and are hell to maintain. I still think forums are one of the absolute best ways to handle meaningful documentation and discussion of information, but alas it's not really meant to be (although there are a few things I think that could help more modern sites like tildes)

    Modern software isn't much better. Windows and MacOS are filled with anti-user features, telemetry you just can't turn off, Windows will often just install shit on your computer without telling you. They turn your computer into a walled garden, where you can do what you want as long as you play by their rules, but without giving you any real control over what your computer does. Yeah you can delete system files and brick your laptop if you feel like it, but anyone who's ever tried to permanently disable Windows updates will know that in the end you're not the one calling the shots: Microsoft are. And... Like, that's insane, right? It's running on my fucking computer, it's my CPU doing the work, I want to know what the hell it's doing and not just the parts it lets me see, and if I want it to do something different then I should be able to make it so.

    THIS is rose tinted glasses though. Do those things exist? Absolutely. You know what else was anti user features? A fuckload of bugs, crashes viruses, and other issues, mostly solved by finally taking control of patching and some user level functionality. Yes the telemetry stuff is bullshit and frankly how fucking dare they put ads in a PAID product, even if I can mostly rip them out, but dear god people do not remember how unstable and screwed up older OS's were.

    I hate it all. I'm tired. I want out.

    These are my problems. Here's what I've done about it so far.

    Obsessive privacy on the web. No Google services. Firefox with as much telemetry turned off as possible. Protonmail and ProtonVPN for everything (and I'm considering getting out of those too with the pro-Trump stances they've been taking recently). As minimal an online footprint as I can get, I make as few accounts as possible and I don't use shared or even slightly related usernames (my username here is an exception as it's my Reddit username, and no, it's not my real name), I delete accounts whenever I can and I GDPR request the services afterward. Virtual cards for online payments as much as possible. Will probably make a Javascript whitelist at some point too. Is all of this overkill? Yes. Why do I bother? Because fuck them.

    Yep a good start. Again just from a usability perspective applications like ublock can vastly improve those sites that you usually avoid but sometimes wind up on. I'm in a similar pickle with proton, but right now don't see a better option that doesn't turn into a job.

    As little social media presence as possible. Real life necessitates some amount of social media interaction of course, I have Facebook and Instagram but use them exclusively for messaging. I often see people excluding Reddit from social media but I don't fully agree, even if it's not exactly in the category it still targets a lot of the same psychological weak points in us, encouraging doom scrolling and shaping our opinions through echo chambers and propaganda (it's always important to remember that echo chambers and propaganda you agree with are still echo chambers and propaganda). I still use Reddit admittedly, but I've tried to minimise my usage as much as possible and I'm shopping for alternatives.

    I still say nuke facebook/insta. Best decision I made. Message me elsewhere. I have a phone, i have discord, i have email, i'll setup whatever else you want, but fuck both of those. I do get it's not always that easy, as a friend used insta mostly to communicate so i gave up on that for a bit for various reasons, but after the election he decided to finally ditch it and mine is gone again.

    Free and Open Source software as much as possible. I'm all in on GNU these days. Yes, it's a massive pain in the ass. My job unfortunately requires some Windows-only software so I'm running a dual partition but I'm trying to get as much of my computer usage onto Linux as possible (I use Arch btw). Like I said above, it's my computer, if I can't control what it's computing then it stops being my computer, it's at best shared between me and all the developers of the proprietary software I have installed on it.

    I think this is mostly self defeating. People need to get paid to develop. It's that simple. Good will and the wisdom of the masses rarely works, and certainly doesn't work forever. The entire state of gaming on linux is massively helped because a paid workforce (valve) did a shit ton of work to get the steam deck off the ground, and they have a monetary incentive to keep it that way. I'm not saying you need to run from Free/Open Source, but at the same time there's plenty of legit services that deserve to be paid for, especially if you don't want to support the ad infested model.

    That's my rant. It's been a long time coming.

    There are still things I'm looking to change, especially with how I use the internet. Getting rid of Reddit is the next big step for me, I think. I just can't be bothered with it anymore, but there is still something about it that I love, every time I look through a small niche topic community, or an interesting new hobby sub I've never seen before with years of cool posts for me to go through. And yeah, I do still enjoy browsing through /r/all even when it's 80% shit and objectively bad for my mental health. But at this point the overwhelming mass of utter shit is just not worth digging through anymore. I'm tired.

    Staying away from all is the main thing you can do with reddit. It still is the defacto meeting ground for niche communities (although discord also fills that to some level), and thus I find myself there. 99% of the time i'm there though it's because i'm trying to learn about some recent breaking news event (plane crash, trump stuff), and then quickly remember how useless the comments are compared to how they used to be, and just regret looking. Personally I started using inoreader and subscribed to things I care about, so now I get updates when needed, and if there's nothing in my feed, then there's nothing for me to check,.

    Tildes is really cool. It reminds me of the old internet, the ideal usage of the Web. I open the site, I see a link to an interesting article, I read it, I give it a like, I read and/or contribute to the discussion in a comments section. I want more of this.

    If anyone has any links to cool sites that I should check out I'd greatly appreciate it.

    Look into rss/feeds. I think it solves a LOT of issues with the modern internet. Being able to just go to one spot to see the news/info you want, and then interact more if you want to, is so useful. And since most sites have nuked the interactive part by just not being able to handle the volume of content, I rarely find myself going that much farther.

    19 votes
    1. deathinactthree
      Link Parent
      This is something that bears repeating. OP's complaints about modern OSes are valid but dear god do you remember what a pain in the ass it was in the early 2000s to keep WinXP running? It those...

      THIS is rose tinted glasses though. Do those things exist? Absolutely. You know what else was anti user features? A fuckload of bugs, crashes viruses, and other issues, mostly solved by finally taking control of patching and some user level functionality. Yes the telemetry stuff is bullshit and frankly how fucking dare they put ads in a PAID product, even if I can mostly rip them out, but dear god people do not remember how unstable and screwed up older OS's were.

      This is something that bears repeating. OP's complaints about modern OSes are valid but dear god do you remember what a pain in the ass it was in the early 2000s to keep WinXP running? It those days it was habitual for me to do a full wipe and reinstall at least once a year (often twice) because it was easier than trying to clean up the registry or DLL hell or getting caught by MSBlast or having a system-ending crash. And reinstalling, updating, patching, finding and setting up every driver, etc. was usually a full-day exercise.

      I dislike the ads and telemetry and bullshit as much as everyone else but let's not kid ourselves that running a PC in 2003 was a painless affair.

      8 votes
    2. Crestwave
      Link Parent
      Not all of them are bots, but I think the 35% figure OP gave is quite a conservative estimate. Reddit always had tons of low-effort jokes and memes, but nowadays it is chock full of bots reposting...

      Another eh to a point. I don't think they're just bots. I think low effort content has the widest appeal. The reason i started going to reddit was because even if there was something kinda low effort, you usually could find interesting conversations about the topic at hand.

      Not all of them are bots, but I think the 35% figure OP gave is quite a conservative estimate. Reddit always had tons of low-effort jokes and memes, but nowadays it is chock full of bots reposting threads with comment sections that are 99% other bots reposting the comments (actual ones, not copypastas) from the original thread and 1% unaware users who think they are interacting with real people. Reposters aside, there are also quite a few bots posting obvious ChatGPT responses.

      Of course, this varies by subreddit, but it is absolutely chilling to see so many threads which look completely normal until one user is perceptive enough to post a link to the original thread with the exact same comments. Slowly, these people will dwindle out and leave while the rest will be stuck interacting with bots.

      7 votes
    3. [3]
      raze2012
      Link Parent
      Could be dead internet theory. I definitely believe a bit of both, as well as paid actors. The key of a bot is to act like a human, and lower effort content with short responses is harder to call...

      Now almost every comment is a joke or some vapid speculation, and if it's not one of those, the replies are. I still sometimes will click on a comment thread hoping to learn more about the subject, but it's either rampant speculation or "lol puns/sex joke/popular meme".

      Could be dead internet theory. I definitely believe a bit of both, as well as paid actors. The key of a bot is to act like a human, and lower effort content with short responses is harder to call out than a detailed breakdown that starts to hallucinate. Win-Win for Reddit.

      THIS is rose tinted glasses though. Do those things exist? Absolutely. You know what else was anti user features? A fuckload of bugs, crashes viruses, and other issues, mostly solved by finally taking control of patching and some user level functionality

      Intent is the key. You don't intend to make bugs and you try to fix them when you get reports. You very much want to throw in ads and have no plans to remove them without huge backlash.

      The early internet felt like its goal was to make the place a bit brighter, it was focuses on improving itself and even fostering community. (except for viruses, but that's never changed). Modern internet very much focues on money over people and everything is just "content". commenters are content to monetize, software is content to monetize, the latest tech buzzword solution looking for a problem is content to monetize (until the bubble bursts).

      There's no personality anymore; it's all business.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        Eji1700
        Link Parent
        I think this is much more conspiracy than reality for a few reasons, but the main one is that I know the kind of people who will willingly scroll 9gag and make low effort comments on all sorts of...

        Could be dead internet theory. I definitely believe a bit of both, as well as paid actors. The key of a bot is to act like a human, and lower effort content with short responses is harder to call out than a detailed breakdown that starts to hallucinate. Win-Win for Reddit.

        I think this is much more conspiracy than reality for a few reasons, but the main one is that I know the kind of people who will willingly scroll 9gag and make low effort comments on all sorts of posts. They exist in droves. There's no need to make mass bot networks or god forbid something as complicated as paid actors for 99% of the vapid content out there.

        That's not to say there aren't shit tons of bots, and the occasional paid actor, but the ratio is much much smaller than most people claim.

        4 votes
        1. raze2012
          Link Parent
          I feel it's only accelerating, especially with the advent of AI. Which is alarming. I don't think we're true blue 90% bots. But I don't see it as a conspiracy anymore without major legislation. As...

          That's not to say there aren't shit tons of bots,

          I feel it's only accelerating, especially with the advent of AI. Which is alarming. I don't think we're true blue 90% bots. But I don't see it as a conspiracy anymore without major legislation.

          As of today: you don't need "a lot of bots" to begin with to really disrupt a forum and thars the scariest part. If you ever had an ummoderared community you can see dozens of blatant bots following the same script to go to some scam site. I'd say when you hit 10% spam you start to feel disrupted, and 20% id's when you are too disrupted to bother engaging. But these are for"obvious bots'".

          Especially with reddits mechanics, you can do this with a few actors: https://old.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/sdcsx3/testing_reddits_new_block_feature_and_its_effects/

          That was just one person abusing a mechanic acedemically for 5 days. And the blocking mechanics haven't changed for nearly 4 years. I just kinda knew that Reddit was done as a platform for discussion when admins did nothing to address this.

          4 votes
    4. [2]
      EgoEimi
      Link Parent
      Agreed. OSS have really bad UX and struggle to gain traction. I'm a designer and find OSS projects to be 100% dev-driven: product and design voices are considered superfluous. Dev maintainers are...

      Free and Open Source software as much as possible.

      I think this is mostly self defeating. People need to get paid to develop. It's that simple. Good will and the wisdom of the masses rarely works, and certainly doesn't work forever.

      Agreed. OSS have really bad UX and struggle to gain traction. I'm a designer and find OSS projects to be 100% dev-driven: product and design voices are considered superfluous. Dev maintainers are dismissive and lack sensitivity for expertises outside of dev. I only contribute to a close friend's OSS project. I don't bother to contribute to OSS otherwise because it's a waste of time and energy.

      Another eh to a point. I don't think they're just bots. I think low effort content has the widest appeal. The reason i started going to reddit was because even if there was something kinda low effort, you usually could find interesting conversations about the topic at hand.

      ... Fewer people were really using the internet in their day to day in 2000's. Now everyone is, and this is what everyone wants.

      Indeed. The Internet sucks because humans suck. Apps like TikTok and Snapchat are full of mindless crap because it's what sells; it's what people want. Less than 1% want enlightening content; 99% of people just want crap shoveled into their mouths.

      4 votes
      1. aradian
        Link Parent
        I think this isn't just a one-way cause and effect. People also prefer what they're used to, and centrally controlled media have a lot of power to decide what kind of content people get used to...

        Indeed. The Internet sucks because humans suck. Apps like TikTok and Snapchat are full of mindless crap because it's what sells; it's what people want. Less than 1% want enlightening content; 99% of people just want crap shoveled into their mouths.

        I think this isn't just a one-way cause and effect. People also prefer what they're used to, and centrally controlled media have a lot of power to decide what kind of content people get used to seeing.

        3 votes
  5. [3]
    deathinactthree
    Link
    This resonates with me, as an Old(TM)--I miss the experience of the earlier Internet with niche interest websites and more closely-knit communities, and I dislike a lot of the enshittification...

    This resonates with me, as an Old(TM)--I miss the experience of the earlier Internet with niche interest websites and more closely-knit communities, and I dislike a lot of the enshittification that's currently happening with hardware and software. But I also agree with a lot of the commenters here that it's not as doom-and-gloom as it may feel to be.

    The tone of your post is generally around feeling a lack of control...but you have a lot of control, even now, and always have. You're already moving in that direction with the steps that you've taken, minimizing social media, using Linux, adblockers, etc.

    And the "old" Internet still exists, more or less, it's just less Google-friendly. I think a lot of people (not you specifically) who reminisce about the fun old days of poking around the web and stumbling upon good websites and niche forums and communities forget that the way you found them was by some form of hunting and exploration, and you still have to do that. Those websites took effort to find then just like they do now; maybe more or less effort, but still effort. It probably feels like more effort now just because it's overshadowed by the the weight and the ease of the popular sites that most people now use.

    But in my own experience doing the same thing you are--moving to Linux, killing most social media, creating "security through obscurity" by having as small an online footprint as possible, spending more time in smaller communities like Tildes--it's not been significantly more difficult to experience the "old" Internet and the "old" ways of using a computer now than it was then. Using Linux as my only OS, I finally feel like I have my own computer back and it's fun to use again, though I admit that it was largely possible through the fact that gaming and office apps are usable now in a way they really weren't a few years ago. I deleted Facebook over a decade ago, deleted Twitter about 3 years ago, and never used Insta or WhatsApp or TikTok or SnapChat, etc. at all, and I don't feel like I'm missing a single thing despite sitting in front of my computer and being online for...more hours of the day than I should admit.

    Some people would react to that by claiming to feel like they're "missing out on the global discourse" or whatever, but @Akir has it exactly right upthread that there simply isn't any such thing as a global discourse, just the illusion of one whenever there's enough critical mass on one site, and that critical mass always ends up just being useless, angry noise after awhile.

    Or they would say "it's how I keep in touch with friends and family", which, fine, but..........what does everyone think we all did to maintain our networks of relationships before 2007? Phones still exist, email still exists. Facebook is merely convenient, but it's not even more convenient than just sending a text. I've never needed it to know how my best friend living in Los Angeles is doing, or to organize a get-together with my friends in town. I'm not inconvenienced by not using it.

    At this point my ranting is probably just preaching to the choir, so I'm going to pivot to your ask for suggestions of websites to check out, that will hopefully illustrate that the Internet you want to have fun on is still out there, if you look for it:

    • Cloudhiker--the current version of StumbleUpon which is probably the easiest way to rediscover the experience of the 2000s Internet
    • Neocities--modern Geocities, exactly what it sounds like
    • Upstract--modern Popurls, if you recall it: a huge aggregator of news links from customizable sources
    • Puzzmo--constantly updated daily puzzles of all kinds
    • Tiny Awards--only updated once a year IIRC but contains a curated list of nominated websites that specifically replicate the "old Internet" feel
    22 votes
    1. Asinine
      Link Parent
      I'm glad someone posted what I'd have posted in response. I resonate so much with the OP. Thanks for summing up most of what I wanted to say, plus some great links!

      I'm glad someone posted what I'd have posted in response. I resonate so much with the OP.
      Thanks for summing up most of what I wanted to say, plus some great links!

      1 vote
    2. Schwoop
      Link Parent
      Thanks for the links in the end - I really enjoy Upstract and the Tiny awards :)

      Thanks for the links in the end - I really enjoy Upstract and the Tiny awards :)

      1 vote
  6. 0x29A
    Link
    I feel this deeply in a lot of ways. I try to spend a lot of my time anymore seeking out things I truly enjoy online (even if that's video content). I just try to curate my experience as much as...

    I feel this deeply in a lot of ways. I try to spend a lot of my time anymore seeking out things I truly enjoy online (even if that's video content). I just try to curate my experience as much as possible, forcibly if necessary (ad-blockers, very stringent choices about who I follow and what gets in my feeds).

    I've joined smaller online communities that I really love. I check out the creative work of others, webrings of "small web" websites (websites of artists, authors, designers, makers, bloggers, techies) and just try to find the places where people are doing cool stuff, often specifically in the service of rethinking computing and so on.

    I quit reddit. I'm considering leaving Meta properties (or at least deactivating and using messenger only). I've created a special email address, a signal account, and have notified people when I do leave the options we have for staying in touch.

    I've moved to bluesky (though it will probably get shitty too, just a matter of time). I'm on a mastodon instance (since I'm tech-inclined and find community there. NOT as a replacement for other services nor do i recommend it for that).

    I've dropped all Windows devices from my life. Nearly everything is linux. I have a single Mac but it's very specifically purpose-driven (creative work, music and visual).

    Yeah, a big portion of the big corporate internet sucks and forever will, but I'm glad there's plenty of web out there that is still in the hands of cool people with their own sites and places like Tildes and whatnot.

    It's all about doing your best to very specifically curate your experience as strictly as possible and make it work for you, and that can include using the internet less in general if necessary.

    Over the decades we certainly have accelerated deeper and deeper into absolute enormous landfills of internet garbage, and many things today are making that worse. While we can't revert that and we can't prevent it, we can each be a force that moves against it in whatever ways we can.

    15 votes
  7. [3]
    Raspcoffee
    Link
    Just wanted to say, I feel you. :| It wasn't perfect, but I do miss the older net. MyNoise, hands down. I use it at work for background sound daily and I love it so much.

    Just wanted to say, I feel you. :| It wasn't perfect, but I do miss the older net.

    If anyone has any links to cool sites that I should check out I'd greatly appreciate it.

    MyNoise, hands down. I use it at work for background sound daily and I love it so much.

    14 votes
    1. [2]
      Pistos
      Link Parent
      That MyNoise is very cool. Thanks for sharing. I'm test driving it today.

      That MyNoise is very cool. Thanks for sharing. I'm test driving it today.

      3 votes
      1. Protected
        Link Parent
        If you enjoy it and start using it regularly consider donating to the author. Any amount will unlock all the (poorly) hidden "premium" generators forever (currently there are 359 generators in...

        If you enjoy it and start using it regularly consider donating to the author. Any amount will unlock all the (poorly) hidden "premium" generators forever (currently there are 359 generators in total after a quick count) and some other features. I've been donating for years in the hopes that they can keep running; it makes sense to me that continuously serving audio to a lot of people has some costs.

        4 votes
  8. [14]
    sunset
    Link
    You are just getting older. It's very common for older people to complain about how things are and to pine for the "good old days".

    You are just getting older. It's very common for older people to complain about how things are and to pine for the "good old days".

    14 votes
    1. [3]
      ConalFisher
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I think it's also common for every single person who pines for those "good old days" to respond to this exact point with "but this time it's different", and... Well, I'm no different I suppose. I...

      I think it's also common for every single person who pines for those "good old days" to respond to this exact point with "but this time it's different", and... Well, I'm no different I suppose. I don't think it's fair to handwave away all criticism of something as simple nostalgia; there are most definitely things in the past that were better than they are now, and vice versa. Certainly I enjoyed the internet more in the past because I myself was different and I interacted with it in a different way. And that most definitely creates a bias. And with all that in consideration, I still stand by my claim that the internet of today is worse than it was in the past. I do think we have regressed in that regard, for the reasons outlined in my post. Maybe I'm simply an old man yelling at a cloud and the internet is actually just fine the way it is, but we'll have to agree to disagree if that's your stance.

      23 votes
      1. [2]
        sunset
        Link Parent
        It's not that all the criticism is invalid, it's that You experience selection bias regarding the past - you miss all the things that were better, but you ignore (or straight up don't remember)...

        It's not that all the criticism is invalid, it's that

        1. You experience selection bias regarding the past - you miss all the things that were better, but you ignore (or straight up don't remember) all the things that were worse.

        2. You concentrate only on the negatives today. You are so grumpy, you interpret all the changes in the worst light possible, in some instances bordering on paranoia.

        To give you a specific example: You mentioned reddit, and well, I was on reddit in its early days. and a lot of stuff was way worse. It was populated almost entirely by tech-bros and there were no subreddits, just one feed. There were fewer bots, true, but there was just as much political propaganda. But instead of being obnoxiously progressive, it was obnoxiously libertarian, with Ron Paul being pushed in your face 24/7. Nowadays the big subs suck, but I can find smaller subreddits that are pretty cool and have great subcommunities with various interests. Back then if you weren't a libertarian tech-bro, there was nothing for you there. Also, the website was incredibly unstable - slow and constantly going down. Also moderation was way worse. It was pretty much "everything goes", including open racism, sexualization of children and so on.

        Regarding privacy/security, early internet had very little encryption and was incredibly insecure. Most traffic was unencrypted. You could get infected just by opening the wrong website because browsers were so insecure. There were no ad blockers. There were barely any pop-up blockers so you could get a thousand pop-unders spammed after opening something. Nowadays browsers are quite secure. Most traffic is going through HTTPS, making snooping on your data significantly harder. End to end encryption is implemented on almost everything, including stuff that comes from big corpo (like Whatsapp by Facebook).

        17 votes
        1. V17
          Link Parent
          Eh, it depends on what you're seeking. Firstly there was a time inbetween when reddit wasn't just for libertarian techbros and subreddits already existed, and secondly there is one big difference...

          To give you a specific example: You mentioned reddit, and well, I was on reddit in its early days. and a lot of stuff was way worse. It was populated almost entirely by tech-bros and there were no subreddits, just one feed. There were fewer bots, true, but there was just as much political propaganda. But instead of being obnoxiously progressive, it was obnoxiously libertarian, with Ron Paul being pushed in your face 24/7. Nowadays the big subs suck, but I can find smaller subreddits that are pretty cool and have great subcommunities with various interests. Back then if you weren't a libertarian tech-bro, there was nothing for you there. Also, the website was incredibly unstable - slow and constantly going down. Also moderation was way worse. It was pretty much "everything goes", including open racism, sexualization of children and so on.

          Eh, it depends on what you're seeking. Firstly there was a time inbetween when reddit wasn't just for libertarian techbros and subreddits already existed, and secondly there is one big difference between the era you describe and todays era: while it used to be culturally much more homogenous and much edgier, it was also, on average, considerably smarter. And thanks to the homogenity there was way less infighting (until the "internet feminism" era, around 2012, which understandably created a big rift) and a bit more sense of community.

          Personally I can deal with a lot of shit if what I get is a community of smart people who occassionally share interesting ideas instead of the painfully average that you get on most of Reddit now.

          Also I disagree with the moderation being worse at that time (though it is a bit of a false dichotomy, both types of moderation can be bad). Maybe it's selfish, but I don't care about edgy shit not being removed as much, I can just ignore it or leave. But locking discussions, heavy handed autofilters, bans for participating in "problematic" subreddits when you just went there once through /r/all to argue with their users because you didn't notice what sub that is, that's somebody else making the decision of what you can or cannot access for you, and it also creates a significant chilling effect because everybody is aware all the time that it can happen for unpredictable reasons. And the moderation goes way beyond what's reasonable, I've had comments or posts removed by mods and was blocked by users for things I say on Tildes multiple times.

          5 votes
    2. onceuponaban
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I don't think it's fair to dismiss this as old people fearing change. I have the same concerns as OP (and have already launched into more than one rant about the subject on this same website) and...

      I don't think it's fair to dismiss this as old people fearing change. I have the same concerns as OP (and have already launched into more than one rant about the subject on this same website) and I'm 25 years old. I'm supposedly one of the "digital natives" that grew up in a world already dominated by computers and even I can see the rot in our entire technological landscape. The advent of personal computing promised to make everyone's lives easier, and in some ways it definitely has, but it's also being leveraged as yet another tool to exploit us. Nothing new as far as technological progress in general is concerned, but for something as impactful as computing, bad actors abusing this technology is more dangerous than usual. This is an ongoing threat that must be addressed or it's going to get even worse.

      21 votes
    3. [9]
      Pavouk106
      Link Parent
      In good old days you get a game that worked. Very rarely you had to apply a patch (to actuall get rid of some gamebreaking bug). In good old days you bought your movie on physical media, not lease...

      In good old days you get a game that worked. Very rarely you had to apply a patch (to actuall get rid of some gamebreaking bug).

      In good old days you bought your movie on physical media, not lease it on the internet.

      In goodold days web pages existed to inform users about something, not get the most info about them or serve them more ads than content.

      In good old days you bought perpetual license for the software and it is valid and works 20 years later (Total Commander).

      But in the good old days you didn't have broadband internet. You didn't have all the knowledge at your fingertip. You didn't know about something happening on the other side of the globe right when it happened.

      I guess it's about how we want to approach this debate. I'm from he good old days and I miss a lot frm those times. I also like many things about new times. And I'm still wrestling on how to combine those two very different "worlds".

      7 votes
      1. [8]
        cdb
        Link Parent
        I agree with all your points, and I miss some of those things too, but I also think there were significant downsides in all those areas that have gotten better over time. In the good old days you...

        I agree with all your points, and I miss some of those things too, but I also think there were significant downsides in all those areas that have gotten better over time.

        In the good old days you may have had less buggy games on release date, but they were also simpler and often did have bugs that were never patched. Patches seems to make developers lazier about bugs, but allow them to ship more complex and adaptable content.

        In the good old days you were forced to buy your movie on physical media, or go to a rental shop twice to pick up then return a physical item. These days I can sit down in front of my TV and watch almost anything without having to leave the house, waste time, waste gas, clutter my house with shelves of discs, etc. What I really want is to watch a movie, not own a piece of plastic with the movie on it.

        In the good old days many webpages were more charming, but we had malware, scams, and ads everywhere. First thing that comes to mind is NetZero during the late 90's, which literally had permanent ads on the screen just to access the internet. Back then your adblocker was a piece of paper you taped to your monitor to block the ads. Used to have to actively scan for and deal with malware all the time, and now I don't even think about it.

        In the good old days you bought a perpetual license for software... that would never be maintained ever, unless the developer was fairly successful and generous. Lots of purchased software just died off, and your money along with as it became obsolete.

        So, while some things got worse and some things got better, on the whole I feel like most of the changes at least make sense, even if I'm not that happy with some of them.

        5 votes
        1. [7]
          Pavouk106
          Link Parent
          About simpler games Baldur's Gate 1&2 had more than 10 CDs combined woth their expansions and each of the games was longer than many modern ones (that come borderline playable at launch with tens...

          About simpler games

          Baldur's Gate 1&2 had more than 10 CDs combined woth their expansions and each of the games was longer than many modern ones (that come borderline playable at launch with tens of GB size). Yes, they (may have) had their bugs but they could be finished just fine.

          Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic 1&2 basically the same as BG. Tens of hours in each of them. I don't know about bugs in those.

          Fallout 1 and especially Fallout 2 were quite complex games with various quests and paths that gave you tens of hours of good playtime. And if you were curious, you could replay them (again especially F2) to get various endings. I spent probably way too much time (I'd say somewhere between 200 and 500 hours) replaying Fallout 2 over and over again back in the days.

          Before these the games actually were simpler, I agree on that.

          Physical media

          I like owning the thing I pay for. I have to store it somewhere and it takes place and I have to get it, but when I pay for it and have it in my hand, it is mine forever from that time. I own 25 years old physical media I bought beck in the days. I have even older ones that are still readable/playable and I can use them. Many of those don't exist in any other form anymore.

          Streaming movies and music is more comfortable, for sure. But only up to the point where you have to cough up another few bucks for yet another streaming service that has the thing you want. That is if some of them even has the thing you want... Well, be sure I have some things in my drawer that you won't find anywhere on the internet (not in original quality or non-pirated at least).

          Malware, scams and ads

          We don't have those? I see them everyday. They are blatantly presenting these LEGO sets on Facebook for 1/10th of the price and people (or bots, or both, actually) are happily discussing how they are gonna buy some and giving it thumbs up. I report them everytime and Facebook tells me something like "Thank you, we'll get back to you about the resolution of this" just to never be heard about again. This is pure scam, thievery in the daylight and the olatform don't give a single fuck, they just take money from the advertiser and everyone is a winner, except users.

          And speaking about ads, there are sites I don't visit anymore because of excess ads. One of them is Youtube with their unskippable 30 second pre-rolls and mid-rolls that appear antime I skip in the video. Wanna watch some how to instructional stuff? Get ready to be fed u(p) with ads! I get it, it costs money to run such business, but I would happily take 720p video with less ads (basically "pay for the size"). Premium? No, thanks. I'm used to pay for the service by being served ads. But only to a point.

          The perpetual licence was just this one example - Total Commander is kinda still the same old program, but it gets updated throughout those 25 years, it still runs on modern OS and still gets new funstionality here and there.

          Perhaps something like Photoshop would be better example. No perpetual licence, but if you paid the hefty sum, it is just yours. Yes, new version means new licence, but if you don't need new stuff, you don't have to pay. And you are not dependent on some service, you have your CD and your key and you don't care about servers, internet or whatever.

          While I'm arguing, my thought are not that much about just arguing. They are more like "Why we don't have many of this stuff today?" We can have physical media - and we still do, we can have good games (no launchers, no half-assed releases, no needs for big day one patches...) - and we still do (at least some), we can have licences instead of subscriptions - and sadly, we don't havemuch of those, do we? We can have good websites withoud malware, too much ads or scams - and we do, Tildes is one of those, but they are hard to come by, yet I'm happy that at least this one thing remains actually the same.

          And I totally agree with you on that some things got worse and some better. It's not that the old days were just good. Getting 70MB patch for fixing gamebreaking bug on 56k modem... Phew, I'm happy we moved on. Paying 20-30€ for new and trendy music CD - who would do that today? I bought best of Celine Dion, Whitney Houston and Elton John (physical releases) for under 40 combined. Some things got really better, but I reall miss some from the past - there are things that used to be (done) better.

          4 votes
          1. [2]
            hobbes64
            Link Parent
            I want to tell you a few alternatives to YouTube. One is FreeTube. It is a client for YouTube. It has no tracking or ads. I’m not sure if it will be around forever but it’s available now for most...

            I want to tell you a few alternatives to YouTube.

            One is FreeTube. It is a client for YouTube. It has no tracking or ads. I’m not sure if it will be around forever but it’s available now for most platforms except iPhone.

            Another is Nebula. It is small compared to YouTube but has some of the prominent content creators and no ads. It is modestly priced.

            3 votes
            1. Pavouk106
              Link Parent
              I have Nebula subscription (as it goes toncreatos and not some behemoth of a company) and also LTT on Floatplane (again, goes to creator, not behemoth). Alternative to Youtube is Grayjay for me....

              I have Nebula subscription (as it goes toncreatos and not some behemoth of a company) and also LTT on Floatplane (again, goes to creator, not behemoth).

              Alternative to Youtube is Grayjay for me. Since they got desktop client out, I use that. I know, no ads money to creators. Well, maybe some of them could shift to Nebula? I would certainly give them my watch time if they did!

              And I also use Odysee for a few of creators (mainly electronics focused like EEVblog, Bigclivedotcom, ElectroBOOM, GreatScott and a few others).

              Youtube is not the only one out there and by their ad policy, they forced me to shut the door for them. But there clearly are some alternatives.

              2 votes
          2. [2]
            V17
            Link Parent
            I don't know man, there was Ultima Underworld almost a decade before that, any many others. I think one could argue that the average quality of games increased but the most successful 1% of games...

            Before these the games actually were simpler, I agree on that.

            I don't know man, there was Ultima Underworld almost a decade before that, any many others. I think one could argue that the average quality of games increased but the most successful 1% of games was better then than now. But yeah, I think the years 98 - 01 or so were insane with the quality of releases and way above average in the whole gaming timeline. Thief and Deus Ex still hold up perfectly well and none of the sequels or games inspired by them really did better imo, I played both for the first time relatively recently. And as you say, Baldur's Gate puts probably 99% of all RPGs to shame to this day, it's insane how good it is (also played it recently).

            But there are times when I repeatedly think "holy fuck, I'm so glad we're living in the future". For example I remember how terrible of an ordeal it was to copy data from my PC to my phone of vice versa. Here's a phone, it has a wireless connection (bluetooth) and a cable connection. Why the hell does the proprietary cable cost (the equivalent of) 20€? Why the hell do none of my 3 bluetooth USB (probably version 1.1) dongles seem to work with the Nokia management app? When I finally get the cable, why the hell can't I share my PC's internet connection through it to use it without paying for insanely overpriced data?

            Nowadays all of those things work immediately with a couple taps on the screen and the biggest hassle is that there are USB cables that are only for charging and not for data connections and some are not properly marked as such. There are many things that I'm pissed off about with modern phones, down to some very basic stuff like: Android downloads app updates in the background automatically and when they're downloaded, it just fucking shuts down whatever app it updates and doesn't give shit if you're using it at that very moment. And this is completely normalized and nobody cares. But there's also so much stuff where in the past I thought "why the hell doesn't this obvious thing work or even exist?" that just works flawlessly now.

            1 vote
            1. Pavouk106
              Link Parent
              Stramge, I've got quite the opposite problen with Android. Sometimes I go to my apps in store and I see several of them can be updated yet they are not updating at them moment and wait for me to...

              Stramge, I've got quite the opposite problen with Android. Sometimes I go to my apps in store and I see several of them can be updated yet they are not updating at them moment and wait for me to do it manually... Yeah, even after all that time we still didn't get perfectly working phones. But it is better than back then when "standard" seemed to be a swear word, or to put it in other words - standards were yet to come.

              I'm also glad we have moved on. Yet there are things I think we did better.

              Thanks for Ultima Underworlds example. I was sure I'm mistalen when I wrote that so boldly, but I couldn't come up with a big game from time before I got playing.

              You hit thenail on the head with 1% of games being better even than today ones. That was kinda my point. We had so much games we may not even remember no (because they were not good) but we also had those timeless gems that still stay strong and unparalleled. Yeah, you may not play them anymore due to clunky controls, bad software support and whatnot, but they will stay above today's standards in gameplay or innovation.

              We get similar games even today. You mentioned BG3 and I think it already made a name. But we don't have to pick up a big game - Factorio for example. Or Zachtronics puzzle games, Darkest Dungeon... There are many outstanding games being made today. Hell, even Cyberpunk is grrat, but it wasn't at the start line... And then there are games that require internet connection to play singleplayer story mode...

              Thanks for your insights!

          3. [2]
            cdb
            Link Parent
            Just to be crystal clear, like I said initially, I agree with your points, but I wanted to add on that a lot of things in the old days also had significant downsides (some that got better over...

            Just to be crystal clear, like I said initially, I agree with your points, but I wanted to add on that a lot of things in the old days also had significant downsides (some that got better over time and some that didn't). To pick just one point, of course there's still ads and malware and scammers these days, but there was at least as much, if not more, 20 years ago.

            One thing I will disagree on is that I don't think there's much of an argument that games are not more complex beasts these days. According to google, Baldur's Gate 1 had somewhere around a $1-6 million development cost. Baldur's Gate 3 had a more than $100M development cost. Even adjusting for inflation, it's just a much larger endeavor that game companies are taking on these days. Not talking about complexity of gameplay at all. These are bigger projects with more moving parts. The more parts there are to work on, the more potential for bugs.

            1 vote
            1. Pavouk106
              Link Parent
              BG3 is great example of a great game from modern era! I haven't played it, but I heqrd enough to make a picture and I have played Divinity: Original Sin which is also made by Larian. Larian seems...

              BG3 is great example of a great game from modern era! I haven't played it, but I heqrd enough to make a picture and I have played Divinity: Original Sin which is also made by Larian. Larian seems to be exception, they make great games without enshitificating them.

              2 votes
  9. clayh
    Link
    Many things on the internet are designed to make us think that we should be spending more time on the internet. Here's the thing: most of the time, you just don't need it. Sure, stream Netflix or...

    Many things on the internet are designed to make us think that we should be spending more time on the internet. Here's the thing: most of the time, you just don't need it. Sure, stream Netflix or whatever you consume for entertainment, play some games, etc. but just dump Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and any other social media. You don't need it, even though you might think you do. This site is a weird special place because there tend to be good conversations with some depth. But guess what? You don't need it.

    I decided about 2 yrs ago to dump most of the internet and spend more time creating things and participating in things in the real world. It's been great! There was some decision paralysis, but I've settled into being a member of the local curling club (which is awesome and very social), the local beekeeping club, and just spending more time outside, eating lunch with friends, etc. Pick a bunch of things to try and just get out of the house and away from the internet. You can even leave your phone at home (gasp!). You may need to cycle through a few things before you find some activities that stick, but you'll be glad that you did.

    12 votes
  10. dustylungs
    Link
    The commercial WWW and apps exist because they're easy, convenient and often thrust upon you. The non-commercial internet (which includes more than the WWW and apps) still exists but it requires a...

    The commercial WWW and apps exist because they're easy, convenient and often thrust upon you. The non-commercial internet (which includes more than the WWW and apps) still exists but it requires a lot more effort and know-how on the part of participants and creators. Look up public access unix systems, for one example. Those still exist, although in a very different form than in the 1980's and 90's. A lot of great non-commercial websites still exist as well (and kudos to anyone considering creating and maintaining more!), but you have to sift them out from the commercial WWW noise. Low Tech Magazine is an example. Obviously Tildes is another example.

    An interesting thing about the modern non-commercial internet is that it is still highly social, just not in the same way as an infinite scrolling point-and-click forum like Reddit. You can still interact with others via IRC in some places, but it's also very common to simply reach out to others via email. And because the non-commercial Internet takes so much effort, it's a different breed of people that you'll meet; often very smart, very interesting people.

    I agree with your disdain for the modern commercial WWW, but don't despair too much! The more people, like you, that get burned out on the commercial WWW, the more people that wander into the hinterlands and find that there's a lot out there. Have fun, and consider contributing to the non-commercial internet in addition to enjoying it! But put down your computer and phone, and have some fun offline too; because nobody is interesting on the Internet if they don't have offline experience to bring.

    10 votes
  11. GOTO10
    Link
    For me personally I have no trouble avoiding the facebooks, twitters, and amazons. But the damage they do does affect everyone, unfortunately.

    For me personally I have no trouble avoiding the facebooks, twitters, and amazons. But the damage they do does affect everyone, unfortunately.

    8 votes
  12. [3]
    Tlon_Uqbar
    Link
    Here's my take: the World Wide Web was designed by a relatively privileged group of academics, and therefore by design lacks the guardrails against abuse that are needed with the more or less...

    Here's my take: the World Wide Web was designed by a relatively privileged group of academics, and therefore by design lacks the guardrails against abuse that are needed with the more or less global scale that it operates on today. The Marketplace of Ideas works best when everyone involved agrees on the ground rules, either tacit or stated. Nowadays, "the Internet" can be used as a dis-/misinformation weapon of mass destruction by any bad actor with almost zero barrier to entry. That could be a corporation maximizing profit; it could be scammers scamming (where you draw the line between the two is up to you); could be state-sponsored psy-ops or election interfering; could just be assholes in it for the lulz; etc. The best ideas/information are not winning out, at all, by a long shot. Speaks volumes on human nature, but here we are.

    That's not to say that there aren't good things out there online. The connectivity has absolutely helped marginalized communities and people who just don't feel like they fit in for whatever reason. It's not going anywhere. We might as well use it the best we can.

    I'm making a conscious effort to spend less time online. As others have said here, I'm working to use my online time as a means rather than an end. Internet as tool rather than Internet as "place." Spend more time doing literally anything that's not in front of a screen.

    A lot of my problems are just with so-called "late-stage Capitalism," honestly. And I'm also making moves to disentangle my livelihood from corporate America as much as possible. I don't think I can grind it out for however many more years. It'll take likely years and a lot of work to reorient my life, but I believe that (semi-)independence is the path for me to make peace.

    (Guess I used this space to rant a little. Thanks for reading my random thoughts.)

    8 votes
    1. [2]
      boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      The technological revolution of the printing press a few hundred years ago also created massive disruption and problems including anti semitic pamphlets, witch hunting guides, the Protestant...

      The technological revolution of the printing press a few hundred years ago also created massive disruption and problems including anti semitic pamphlets, witch hunting guides, the Protestant Reformation and much more.

      1 vote
      1. Tlon_Uqbar
        Link Parent
        Yep, widespread internet adoption is one inflection point on a long trend of mass media propaganda. I'm thinking, pamphleteering—as you said, the yellow journalism of ~100 years ago, radio and...

        Yep, widespread internet adoption is one inflection point on a long trend of mass media propaganda. I'm thinking, pamphleteering—as you said, the yellow journalism of ~100 years ago, radio and television propaganda, etc. The Internet isn't the root cause, but rather a powerful accelerant.

        On aggregate, our easily manipulated ape brains really aren't good at handing mass media.

        1 vote
  13. Pavouk106
    (edited )
    Link
    I've already replied to some comments here, but I wanted to write the whole reply. You can get out. And not the totally hard way. Old web is still a thing, you just have to find it. Tildes is...

    I've already replied to some comments here, but I wanted to write the whole reply.

    You can get out. And not the totally hard way.

    Old web is still a thing, you just have to find it. Tildes is great example of how it can be even in modern era. It is open source project that is made with with focus on the users. It can be done without ads and without hate-building and making people fight each other over things they don't even know anything about. I think we are reasonable people here and that is IMHO due to invitation process. Each of us is responsible enough to not invite some jerk that will just cast chaos everywhere - or at least I believe all of us are that responsible.

    Not every piece of software is half-baked and needs to get several patches to work. I'm going for games now - when OpenTTD came out in v1.0 it was already fully made and perfected out game. The same goes with Satisfactory which was prefectly playable even before v1.0 as well. I can't say for more games as I tend to buy in sale, thus not on day one, but I believe many smaller and even some big games work just fine out of the box. Then there is Skyrim on PS3 and Cyberpunk on PS4 (and also other platforms) - these were... not well made when they launched (and Skyrim is straight up bad on PS3 up to this day). But nowadays I can play Cyberpunk on GTX 1650 and 10 years old CPU, they managed to make it. But it was half-baked at launch, that is true.

    Socials... stop using them. I have Facebook account only because I need it for my job, but I don't use it for anything else and I don't use it in the off hours. I don't use Twitter/X just as well, I left Reddit to never return as an active user (and I go there only if it comes up in search when I need to know or solve some problem). If you use Facebook for its marketplace, then use just this, if you use it to order pizza from your favorite restaurant, use it just for that. This is completely in your hands, only you can make the change. Socials will not change in your favor, they just want money, they don't care about you.

    I wrote a bit about old internet or old games here on Tildes (you would have to dive a bit deeper as I also replied to some people there), so I will just sum it up here - there were games that were great and are unparalleled up to this day, but there wasn't that much of them, there were also bad games, we just don't (want to) remember them. But there were masterpieces! But such games come out even today. I consider Horizon Zero Dawn a modern masterpiece for example (and I know there are people here on Tildes that consider it rather normal, not special and that's fine). Old web was more user focused in my opinion, it was made to inform people, not make money on its users - there were ads but not that many and there likely wasn't data gathering.

    Modern software is shit. I have to use Windows on my work laptop and it just is shit. Windows run updates and mess up my shortcuts on the main panel everytime - be it just moving the programs around or actually unpinning them in the process... I should be the master of my PC, not some automatic update. If I save an e-mail attachment in Outlook, sometimes it asks me where I want to save it, sometimes it just goes to Downloads automatically - both of this scenarios happened with two attachments of the same kind (short videos) in ONE e-mail REPEATEDLY - how the fuck?! How is it possible that it asks me for one of them and it doesn't for the other?! And my employer paid for that shit. I don't use Mac, so I can't relate.

    I use Linux on my desktop. I use GIMP for image manipulation (if/when I have to), I use FreeCAD for 3D modelling (for 3D printer), I use Firefox as my browser... You already went this way, that's good for you. There is plenty open source (or just not-owned-by-behemoths) software. Home Assistant is great thing! Music Assistant as well if you have a way to play music through it. Jellyfin as your media server, OpenVPN if you can/have public IP, MakeMKV if you have physical media you want to rip to your NAS... You can live quite happy life in this regard.

    Then there are smartphones and that's where it gets tricky. You can go for some "alternative" one, but they seem to be Android-built underneath. No Google aps, but still Android. There may be some that are completely self-built, no Android whatsoever (Graphene?), but I don't know much about them.

    I still own and have used a Pinephone in the past, which is basically Rapsberry Pi + LCD + battery + other stuff made into development kit that resembles smarthone. It can run various Linux distros to some extent, but each has its flaws and while usable, non of them was really that much user-friendly at the time I dropped the phone and killed part of touchscreen thus stopped using it. I was using the phone for one year and the worst thing was weak cellular signal. Then the OS/software side, which was really for hardcore users. Don't get me wrong, developers made hell of a job (for free, likely enthusiasts) to make it this far with this phone and I can't praise them enough for their work! But it just was too far from Average Joe usable. I was fine with it, though, I can work with flawed things if I know how to workaround the flaws.

    I won't speak about iOS much. I had iPhone 5 and two iPhone SEs (the first one). They all broke, which is kind of a shame given that they are all in pristine shape - something inside went. Ok, I replaced battery in one of them myself but it workde fine for half a year before developing the problem - shutdown at 30%, boot-loop, charging from 0 to 100% in two seconds... basically some battery problem. I got the same problem with second iPhone (this time SE) which I didn't open! The third was fankensteined from two others, so there may have been other problem than factory one. iOS even back in those days was starting to go to shit - sometimes when keyboard should have popped up, the space for it cleared and no keyboard ever came up... Sometimes LCD/UI fucked up when viewing gallery and rotating the phone... It started pretty strong when I jumped on the ship with probably iOS 7.xx, but when I stopped using them with I belive iOS 10.xx mayn things were not the same polish they used to be. It's great when it works, but if it doesn't you are the one to get fucked.

    So I can't really say much about recommending phone.

    Myself, I use Nokia G22 with pure Android (and thus Google ecosystem). I bought it because they marketed it as a phone you can fix yourself - iFixit has a few manuals on how to replace battery, connector board and LCD, all this official from Nokia (well, HMD I guess). The phone comes in classic-cardboard-color box with intention to not waste resources on colored shiny box. On the box itself there is a link to iFixit if you ever need replacement parts or manuals - I love this. The phone is shit, the low-end, but I can call, text, IM, use browser, hotspot etc. with it and that is what I do with my phone. I don't need high resolution display or powerful graphics. I would like to have better camera though. Well, you can't simply have everything, can you? So while sticking to Google, I at least bought a phone that has some idea behind it and I wanted to support the idea. That is why I bought another one for my daughter :-D Kids tend to break phones so it doesn't hurt to have one that you can fix yourself.

    If I was to buy a laptop, it would with absolute certainty be Framework. What I wrote about G22 applies here ten fold - the good things, I mean. Sleek laptop that is fully upgradeable and has customizable ports. The bigger version allows for even more modifications.

    To sum it all up - there are still great things out there, you just have to pursue them and not get caught in all the shit around us that wants us for itself. There is no need to go live in a cave, you can live modern life while not getting fucked by some big corporation (in case of phones you kinda have to), you just have to make the decision - you already did, and pursue you goal - you are working on that. I believe in you! I believe in everyone who goes for it!

    7 votes
  14. meme
    Link
    I also browse the internet in a way that makes normal people think I'm doing too much. I use web interfaces whenever possible and refuse to use phone interfaces or phone apps. That's why I use...

    I also browse the internet in a way that makes normal people think I'm doing too much. I use web interfaces whenever possible and refuse to use phone interfaces or phone apps. That's why I use Reddit and Facebook so much still, as opposed to something like Instagram, which only has full features on the phone. I run strict adblocker that is so zealous about blocking scripts it often breaks pages.

    I've come to enjoy the modern, chaotic, divisive internet for what it is. I absolutely share your sentiment about megacorporations ruining social media, but a mix of ad blockers and site settings keep their agenda stifled. (for example, using Old Reddit cuts down on so much of Reddit's current bullshit).

    Maybe being disillusioned is just a part of growing up. Growing I clearly haven't done, because I actually wake up every day with an attitude of "Oh boy! Can't wait to look at the magic rectangle that shows me the ugliest parts of humanity suffering from their own flaws!"

    6 votes
  15. zod000
    Link
    I agree and share most of your general feelings on this, and I haven't liked the general direction of the internet for the past 10-15 years in the slightest. Though that isn't to say there haven't...

    I agree and share most of your general feelings on this, and I haven't liked the general direction of the internet for the past 10-15 years in the slightest. Though that isn't to say there haven't been some quality of life improvements in some areas, but it feels like for every improvement, there are three or more detriments. I too have found myself retreating from the general common internet as much as I can.

    I don't have much to add other than you may find it valuable other than to consider using an RSS reader to get your source of new content from the internet for things like current events and interesting niche topics. Using RSS as your content aggregator instead of Reddit or equiv keeps you from much of the annoyances user antagonism and doesn't give those companies any of your value to extract.

    5 votes
  16. asparagus_p
    Link
    Hey, I just want to say I feel your pain. You're getting lots of good advice in this thread and a little bit of a telling off for going on a rant, but sometimes you just need to rant. I get it. I...

    Hey, I just want to say I feel your pain. You're getting lots of good advice in this thread and a little bit of a telling off for going on a rant, but sometimes you just need to rant. I get it. I know there are things we can do to make it better and we need to be proactive and stop complaining, blah blah blah. But what's going on right now in the world can feel very overwhelming, and feelings of hopelessness creep in very easily.

    I found myself nodding my head to most of what you were saying, because it felt like you're going through exactly the same as me. The enshittification, grifting, mad rush for profits, blatant disregard for facts, etc. is very depressing. I particularly hate that the tech world is forcing shit down our throats, not because we necessarily want it, but because we're being conditioned to want it (our vulnerabilities are easily exploited) and because it's very hard to have a choice. I can't paste into a Word doc now without MS telling me to paste with fucking Copilot. Get that shit out of here!

    Anyway, wish I could meet you for a pint and we can have a good rant together!

    4 votes
  17. akkartik
    Link
    I think where you go wrong is in looking for cool sites. I've been watching tech sour over 10 years now (Google Reader was the start?) and reacting to it by gradually reducing my dependence on web...

    I think where you go wrong is in looking for cool sites. I've been watching tech sour over 10 years now (Google Reader was the start?) and reacting to it by gradually reducing my dependence on web browsers.

    https://akkartik.name/freewheeling

    10 years ago there was an idea that consumption would become increasingly addictive. Fortunately, all the consumption has been slowly turning to shit so producing is easily still competitive. Build stuff. It keeps me sane.

    4 votes
  18. [2]
    SirNut
    Link
    Some things are worse, some things are better. You just have to be sure that you are not stuck in tunnel vision One thing that’s better is the 3D printing hobby. I’m working towards building a...

    Some things are worse, some things are better. You just have to be sure that you are not stuck in tunnel vision

    One thing that’s better is the 3D printing hobby. I’m working towards building a Voron 2.4 and the Box Turtle filament changer. These are both open source projects that should allow me to produce anything I can dream (basically) and are readily available to me

    That being said this place is the only area where I communicate with strangers online regularly because I appreciate the discourse and level headedness. If the tech world gets annoying I have my dogs, wife and 3D printers (on top of many other hobbies lol) so really things aren’t as bad as people make them out to be

    The world has always been burning, as Billy Joel put it

    3 votes
    1. geniusraunchyassman
      Link Parent
      Yeah, at least we are not lying awake at night wondering when the next band of roving bands of raiders is going to come in the night and raid, rape, and plunder our village only to die shortly...

      Yeah, at least we are not lying awake at night wondering when the next band of roving bands of raiders is going to come in the night and raid, rape, and plunder our village only to die shortly thereafter of shitting ourselves to death.

      1 vote
  19. Amarok
    Link
    Taking your technology stack back is possible. Lucky for all of us someone else already took the time to document exactly how to do it in grandma terms with full technical details intact. the...

    Taking your technology stack back is possible. Lucky for all of us someone else already took the time to document exactly how to do it in grandma terms with full technical details intact.

    This is what happens when FUTO pays Louis Rossman with arabica beans.

    3 votes
  20. first-must-burn
    Link
    I have a Linux laptop at work for development, but I need access to real MS office. After trying out a few Wine/crossover options with no luck, this worked pretty well:...

    My job unfortunately requires some Windows-only software so I'm running a dual partition but I'm trying to get as much of my computer usage onto Linux as possible (I use Arch BTW).

    I have a Linux laptop at work for development, but I need access to real MS office. After trying out a few Wine/crossover options with no luck, this worked pretty well:

    https://github.com/Fmstrat/winapps

    The desktop app integration (try to make a windows app feel like native apps) only sort-of works, but the full RDP session works great.


    On the burnout/despair front, I recommend some serious efforts at self-care. For me that means getting a massage, yoga, making sure I get some downtime to recharge, having times where I limit my exposure to the bad stuff.

    2 votes
  21. Dom
    Link
    One massive giveaway with the bots is that they scan for previously popular posts and repost them. The thing is, I often see stuff from COVID times that is just entirely out of context now.

    One massive giveaway with the bots is that they scan for previously popular posts and repost them. The thing is, I often see stuff from COVID times that is just entirely out of context now.

    2 votes
  22. [3]
    pete_the_paper_boat
    Link
    I'm sorry but honestly from what I heard they got way outta line over there lol.

    they just banned /r/whitepeopletwitter

    I'm sorry but honestly from what I heard they got way outta line over there lol.

    5 votes
    1. ConalFisher
      Link Parent
      Yeah if I were to make this post again I'd have not included that part, I was somewhat misinformed as to the level of line-crossing they'd gone. I still wish that Reddit hadn't made a special...

      Yeah if I were to make this post again I'd have not included that part, I was somewhat misinformed as to the level of line-crossing they'd gone. I still wish that Reddit hadn't made a special exception for the sub in the situation though and had rather dealt with it the normal way that they deal with these things; the fact that they went out of their way with a manual ban reason and an abnormal set of further steps feels to me like they're trying to appease Musk specifically. Now I'm very much of the opinion that we should not negotiate with terrorists but I suppose I can't fault them taking extra precautions when the most powerful man in America is specifically calling them out for something.

      2 votes
    2. boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      It's been a rage sub for as long as I've seen it. Trump and Musk are doing things that make many people angry and or afraid. But most subs curate against open death threats.

      It's been a rage sub for as long as I've seen it. Trump and Musk are doing things that make many people angry and or afraid. But most subs curate against open death threats.

  23. jgb
    Link
    Hi, I haven't been on this website in a very long time, but you might like the imageboard that I made, petrarchan.com.

    Hi, I haven't been on this website in a very long time, but you might like the imageboard that I made, petrarchan.com.

    1 vote