Tildes Book Club - March 2025 - Hyperion by Dan Simmons
This is the twelfth of an ongoing series of book discussions here on Tildes. We are discussing Hyperion by Dan Simmons. Our next book will be Elder Race by Adrian Tchaikovsky at the end of April.
I don't have a particular format in mind for this discussion, but I will post some prompts and questions as comments to get things started. You're not obligated to respond to them or vote on them though. So feel free to make your own top-level comment for whatever you wish to discuss, questions you have of others, or even just to post a review of the book you have written yourself. Also, this month will be slightly different. I have been exceptionally busy and didn't finish the book this time. I am hoping that you all who did read it will come up with interesting questions in addition to your comments/ reviews.
For latecomers, don't worry if you didn't read the book in time for this Discussion topic. You can always join in once you finish it. Tildes Activity sort, and "Collapse old comments" feature should keep the topic going for as long as people are still replying.
And for anyone uninterested in this topic please use the Ignore Topic feature on this so it doesn't keep popping up in your Activity sort, since it's likely to keep doing that while I set this discussion up, and once people start joining in.
My thoughts are going to be very late this month as I've only just started the book on Thursday. I finally finished off my previous series though, so I see no more roadblocks along the way.
I'm actually very excited to read Hyperion, and to discuss it with all of you in the near-future. Save some discussion topics for me!
Same with the lateness! I bought it during the sale someone alerted us to, but life absconded with my reading time (for text) the last couple of weeks. I'm at 4%.
Thirded, I hit a wall in my reading where I could only get through absolute popcorn. Mental health, who needs it.
I'm about 30% in now though.
I might be joining you for that late discussion lol. Fortunately the Tschaikovsky book Elder Race is short.
I'll definitely be late this month. I'm more than 50% done though! Hoping to finish up tomorrow or Tuesday and I look forward to rezzing this thread.
What did you think about the structure of the book? Why would Simmons organize it that way?
I believe it’s supposed to similar in structure to The Canterbury Tales.
Honestly, I think Simmons had the idea for the frame story, thought it sounded brilliant in theory, but had to realize that it was way less practical to pull off. I personally felt like he started to drop the structure almost halfway through Hyperion. I know he "officially" abandoned it for the 2nd, though.
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Which story did you relate to most or find the most interesting?
The Scholar’s Tale is one of the few examples of written word that has brought me to tears. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with me recently having a child, but it was utterly heartbreaking.
Agreed, the Scholar’s tale was moving and fascinating and gut-wrenching. I also enjoyed the discussion of Abraham’s Dilemma quite a lot.
I really liked Father Dure’s story as well. I’m glad it was the first — it was very engaging and felt well an truly alien and bizarre.
I absolutely loved the Poet's story. It was hilarious and tragic at just the right place in the story to lighten the mood... Once you look past the ridiculous slavery and body horror imagery. I also felt this story really added to the world building, highlighting both ends of society - the stupid rich and the abject poor. It also highlights how culture moves throughout the galactic society and the machinations of politics, both of which I found quite interesting.
This is one of the best, if not the best, books I have ever read. It's thought provoking, hilarious, tear jerking, horrifying, and fascinating. It's a fairly slow book, but I feel that the world building makes up for it tenfold.
If you are at all a fan of sci-fi, this is a must read IMO. FYI, my other favorite books/series are Foundation, Dune, and Pandora's Star, in case you want to compare.
I will say that the ending of this book is a cliffhanger. This and the sequel (Fall of Hyperion) were intended to be a single book, but the publisher wanted it as two books. The second book is worth a read, but it is definitely a different vibe and isn't as good imo. If Hyperion is a 10, Fall is a 7. It lacks the emotional highs and trades it for big decisions that affect the plot (and the galaxy).
What question would you like to ask other readers of Hyperion?
In general, I’m opposed to film/TV adaptations because they tend to be a letdown. That said, this book is begging for a limited Netflix series IMO, with a different director for each pilgrim, and a different style of film direction for each story (think Love, Death & Robots but not necessarily fully animated). So, with that context in mind, two potential questions (answer either or both):
how would my fellow book club members choose to approach the film style or direction of each pilgrim’s story?
(less important but still fun) who would you cast in any given role in this limited series? Or whose voice would you use for any non-live action episodes?
Great question. My thoughts turned first to The Fifth Element, so I guess Luc Besson would have to be involved. In thinking about it, there seemed to be some common strains with The Fifth Element: Korben as the soldier, Vito as the priest, Leeloo as the soldiers daughter, even Ruby Rhod as the poet.
Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion are so closely linked that they would need to be made by the same director, but I think some unconventional choices would be called for.
Martin Silenus: Eli Roth. I'm not a fan of horror, but it is an inescapable part of Martin's journey, particularly the body horror satyr and murder parts.
Lennar Hoyt: Jean-Pierre Jeunet. Might seem a little wacky for the story, but this whole part is crazy and the Jeunet penchant for over-the-top cinema would work well here. Also, the man already directed Alien Resurrection, which sounds a lot like Bikura to me.
Sol Weintraub: Werner Herzog. I really can't imagine Sol's story as a movie without also hearing Herzog's German-accented narration describing the events of his life. Maybe because there is something sad long the lines of Little Dieter Needs to Fly in Sol's story.
Fedmahn Kassad: Kathryn Bigelow. Many, many directors could make this one. Spielberg (Saving Private Ryan), Herzog (again, Rescue Dawn), Besson (again, La Femme Nikita) and others come to mind, but Bigelow's touch on Zero Dark Thirty, Hurt Locker, and K-19: The Widowmaker seal the deal on Kassad's story.
Brawne Lamia: David Lynch (RIP 😔). Brawne's story needs a whole lot of film noir, but I think Lynch would have done it the greatest service. He could have combined elements from Twin Peaks and Mulholland Drive with the knack for Scifi that shows up in Dune.
The consul: Park Chan-wook. The tragic failed revenge arc in the consul's story would be great in Park's hands, as Oldboy comes to mind.
Het Masteen: Terrence Malick. I think Malick would be perfect to convey the time-bending nature of Masteen's narrative, with prophesies and visions blending in with "present" and "past" events, as well as portraying the events of the Mobius Cube and the "celebrants". Possibly Christopher Nolan, though too, but I think something that resembles the Tree of Life (i.e. Yggdrasill) is more apt.
There it is. I hit all seven of them.
Thanks for humoring me with an incredible response! Lynch for Lamia’s story and Chan-wook for the consul are particularly inspired IMO. My one (sub-par) addition is that I could also see Kassad’s story as one of the few that would be very fun for an over-the-top animated feature, perhaps in the style of a western anime like Edgerunners, though per your point, his is the most straightforward of the bunch and would not be too tough to do justice in several different flavors.
The real bonus from your reply is that now I have several directors (nearly everyone else you mentioned outside of Bigelow and Roth) whose work I clearly need to check out more!
Wondering if anyone got the irony of the detective's story, I couldn't figure it out.
But the detective? What was up there? It just seemed so straightforward?
You could argue that her client’s already dead, so she’s failed from the beginning to give him any sort of closure. It’s a little reductive and strips all nuance from it, but that’s all that comes to mind. Her narrative thread plays an especially large part in the sequel (they all do, but especially hers) so maybe there’s something there and I’m not putting the pieces together quite yet. It’s been a little bit since I’ve read the second book.
What did you find noteworthy or surprising about the book? What was different from what you had expected?
So much poetry! I found myself very engaged with this book, and surprised myself with how much I enjoyed the poetry itself and the discussions of poetry.
The ending was also a bold choice! I read and thoroughly enjoyed the sequel — I couldn’t stop myself! But part of me almost wishes there hadn’t been a sequel, just to really put some force behind that ending.
In my mind, the second book almost reads like poetry fanfiction. It feels like such a dumb phrase to use to describe it, but it also feels right?
Ha! Yes, that is even more true in the sequel, I would say
I loved it!!! I was a bit nervous because I've had mixed experiences with Simmons before (with Ilium/Olympos). But this was great! It takes until book 4 until I'm ever super frustrated with his writing which is impressive given how Simmons-y Simmons can be at times. Currently I'm at about 45% into Rise of Endymion and I'll finish it in April (after next season of /r/fantasy bingo starts).
I thought it was going to be ENTIRELY the 7 separate stories so I was a bit surprised there was an overarching narrative, and I didn't really care that much about the present day, the past was much more interesting.
The underlying theme of redemption through suffering/self-flagellation. It's distinctly Christian. I found it off-putting. It caused me to stop my reread about halfway through.
On the other hand, I really enjoyed reading Sol’s philosophical arguments about sacrifice. The whole thing felt very Jewish (which I was pleasantly surprised by), and the conclusion was interesting and made sense to me. I’m not at all a religious Jew, but I appreciated the moral quandary posed and how Sol thought about it.
I may have to read more then.
I can’t say you’ll definitely enjoy it, but I felt like the Christian ethics were relatively confined to the Christian characters — and that the mosaic of ethical perspectives showcased by the different characters felt pretty impressive to me
Was there anything you thought was especially well done by the author?
Poorly done?
I've read the first two "Tales" so far. I think the portrayal of space Jesuits was very realistic. It's a very niche sub-genre of story, possibly consisting just of Hyperion and The Sparrow (and sequels) but it felt correct to me.
Dune touches on Space Jews in 5 and 6, which is an adjacent category I suppose.
It's funny that you mention The Sparrow because I'm reading it now, actually!
Space Judaism is definitely an adjacent subgenre, not sure how many entries it has though.
Buckle up, the Sparrow was a rough one.
Simmons kept me incredibly engaged in the actual plot of the book despite it only taking up <5% of the actual novel. The way the pilgrims tell their own stories while traveling to meet the Shrike makes for a great literary decision.
I'd say the weakest story for me was the Consul's story, but I think it just didn't hit me right. It objectively tied a lot of stuff together.
Off topic, but would you like to be added to the ping list for book club posts, or are you just here for this one? Or something else?
Frequency of pings is usually twice per month.
No thank you, I'm just passing by :) you just happened to pick one of my favorite books for this month!
I just finished the first chapter, and I’m very intrigued.
The book format (assuming it follows with each chapter being mostly the story from each pilgrim) seems to be pretty interesting and should keep me hooked.
I’m finding the worldbuilding to be pretty intriguing, so hoping we find out more as the story goes on (and that each’s story keeps being interesting - though I’m sure they’ll be different enough).
This book is an experience beyond just entertainment. I read Hyperion and its sequels a while ago, and I often think about them.
I think the 'Canterbury Tales' format works well for a number of reasons. Hyperion's plot is complex, featuring multifaceted characters with interweaving storylines; not to mention time-travel. Despite this, the story is never confusing. There is plenty of mystery and suspense, but since we follow one character at a time, it's easy to follow the narrative as intended.
Hyperion does not have a clear 'main character'. The pilgrims are not all good (or even likeable) people, but they are interesting, and I was invested in each of their fascinating stories. I never felt stuck in a side-plot; each pilgrim's story feels, while reading, like it is the most important one (which of course it is, from the point of view of the character telling it). This a real credit to the author's storytelling skill.
Sequel recommendation:
Hyperion has an open ending, and I think it's possible to stop there. However, I'd highly recommend reading at least The Fall of Hyperion for a clear, satisfying conclusion to this story. It has a more traditional structure, but is an excellent sci-fi novel.The later novels (Endymion and The Fall of Endymion) are not essential, I feel, but I'm glad I read them. While I found their main characters not as compelling as Hyperion's, they do explore some very interesting sci-fi concepts.