Hey, monthly mystery commenters, what's up with the hit-and-runs?
You might ask yourself “monthly mystery commenters”? Well, let me attempt to explain. I have noticed that on a semi frequent basis, someone will reply to me in a comment. The sort of comment that does invite a reply and isn't a stand-alone comment. Yet, in the case of these comments, whenever someone replies they never do reply in turn.
Of course, it is entirely possible for people to decide to not reply and still reply elsewhere on tildes. In this case, however, I noticed that there is a group of people who only ever leave single replies and never respond to any follow-ups. More often than not, I have noticed these are people who only leave a comment once per month or every few weeks. Hence, the title referring to the practice of monthly hit-and-run comments.
It is a bit of a curious pattern, isn't it? To me, this doesn't make a lot of sense. Like, I get that people sometimes don't want to continue a conversation. But to structurally leave comments to never follow up on replies is entirely alien to me. Even more so for comments that really are replies to other people, not stand-alone comments.
This whole thing has got me scratching my head just enough to make this post. Are they dropping these comments with the best of intentions to return, only to get swept up in other aspects of life? Or is it more about leaving a mark, however brief, to say, “I was here” without the commitment to a full-on conversation? Maybe it's something completely different I haven't even considered.
So, hit-and-runners, what drives you? I am genuinely curious about this and looking forward to any replies.
Edit
This already did get a lot more responses than I ever thought it would get. One observation so far is that a lot of people that replied seem to identify with the title. Yet, so far, for all people I checked they don't fit the type of commenter as I describe in the post itself. It is possible my description just sucks, maybe there is room for a future discussion about commenting based on titles alone. ;)
It's still interesting to read all the different perspectives people have about commenting!
Tiny edit: because of the subject, I almost feel obligated to respond to most people. I really shot myself in the food there :D As that is an impossible task, sorry to the folks I don't end up replying to.
I think for many of us, we've given up commenting online in general. Each comment made is an exception to the rule of votes/reactions only.
I expect many of the comments you're pointing to in the OP are substantive, either in length or content.
I try to make the points I want to make once. Many online conversations just deteriorate because people aren't there for an interactive thing, the input never seems to come n and lead to something worthwhile in the follow-up.
Tildes expects people to do better in their participation. On some topics, that really works. On other topics/issues, I still don't ever bother commenting because those already in the threads clearly aren't willing to listen.
We're essentially distrustful of all online discourse because it's broken on other sites, so we assume/act as though it'll be the same thing here.
All too regularly, I regret making comment two and/or three in a thread. It just wasn't worth it, for whatever reason.
I regularly type out a reply to something, then think "what's the point?", delete it without posting and move on.
Or "this person drops hints of (willfully?) holding enough misconceptions for this to turn into a lengthy and unpleasant tirade to a wall, with a chance of insults" and who has that much time and nerve to burn?
Well, those I avoid completely :-) I try and reply to things that I have some experience with at least, and anything even mildly controversial I just steer clear of. A classic example of one I avoid because I've been burned in the past is anything related to food, diet, and calories on Hacker News. Total minefield. Better to not go into those threads at all, they usually end up killed by the mods anyway.
Getting tone wrong in text is easy anyway, so even something I think may be jokey when I write it, I've come back later and thought "damn, that sounds harsh!!" and deleted it. On reddit I've been downvoted to very negative for stating opinions on mild things like movies or games (not even flame baiting just e.g. "I don't thing this 90s movie holds up nowadays because X, Y, Z".. score -20, no replies xD), so mostly I don't bother any more.
I get the same treatment on Reddit. With plenty of white knights waiting in the wings, the unpopular opinion critic gets stuffed pretty often.
"Na man, I just think the game is trash. Like whatever you like, but you're being a nostalgic."
**Cue the righteous fire, brimstone and daggers
I'm not sure that what you're describing is the same as what you're replying to.
This comes across to me as a decently well-considered opinion, open to engagement and disagreement.
Whereas:
If I look only at this sentence, it comes across to me as pretty dismissive. "Whatever you like" feels handwavey, and "you're being nostalgic" feels like an overriding judgement that is not open for dissent. Besides that, "I think [B] is trash" is both harsh and not backed up by any evidence other than the writer's opinion.
I don't think that responding to the second comment with "righteous fire, brimstone and daggers" is right. But that comment itself is not adding anything useful to the discussion, and I would not enjoy seeing it on Tildes.
Easy, it was meant to be dismissive.
It's hyperbole for the sake of a quick and lazy joke. The commenter talked about being downvoted or responded to negatively for being critical of common taste in media.
Interpreting somebody's tone as more inflammatory than it is is easy online - as is coming off harsher than intended. That said, it gets tiring when pedantic white knights bent on righting every hyperbolic wrong come out of the woodwork to see justice done.
It makes a person not want to contribute wise ass remarks for fun when the Justice League is lurking.
Calling the hypothetical game 'trash' without backing it up is definitely obnoxious and yeah, I typically wouldn't give comments like that the time of day either. I see your point about not responding well (or at all) to it because so many bad actors on the internet use this tool to disregard other people's contributions on the internet.
When read on its face, 'trash' is dismissive by itself and not a word that you'd use to describe something that could hold sentimental value for a person. In the context of the post though, OP was talking about being strung up for having a critical view of 90s video games - a topic that a bunch of nostalgic Gen X'ers reliving the glory days in a forum both have significant time and emotional distance from.
I don't think it's a stretch to expect readers to pick up on the implied playful sarcasm when I say "You're being a nostalgic - Sonic Blast Man for the SNES was trash". Take it as the barstool comment that it is.
On the subject of white knights, I guess that's where we differ in opinion. Maybe the better term is 'tone police' - people who bristle at the use of inflammatory language and sarcasm and feel like it's their moral duty to criticise the intent of the messenger because the language being used isn't what they would have chosen.
Pedantic, sanctimonious, egotistical - these are also off-putting traits that discourage meaningful discussion and frankly, playful chatter about inane topics like 90s video games.
Come on - it was hyperbole to demonstrate how a common type of Reddit user responds to OPs critical, sometimes cynical comments.
Those kinds of comments are ok - they're another way that people engage in discussion online.
Eh, don't worry about it, you're good enough IMO :-)
Aw damn -- don' be like that, suga!
Fair enough. Well, know that there's another short commenter out there, too.
Quick thoughts help to break up the page. If anything, you're providing an important service to the reader.
I felt this in my bones. So much so that It overcame my will to hit the cancel button!
I do the same, though in addition to what's the point I don't want to have to defend or follow up to my comment.
That's the thing, they often are not. That is what made me scratch my head. They are often comments like this one. Specific replies aimed and relatively short.
edit, forgot to reply to this.
This I can relate to. The drive by commenters in my post don't make it to two comments in a post to begin with. They really seem to just comment randomly once in a blue moon.
I think those users are
simply infrequent viewers. They may pop in, make a few comments, and then not think about Tildes for days. By the time they see a reply, the window is long gone to reply.
they have a pattern or internal ruleset to never/seldom respond to replies. As said above, could be old cruft from less charitable communities who seem to be rife to get into a fight rather than have a conversation. Could be a habit from super large websites where you will almost never get a reply (try making a comment on a youtube video older than a few hours on a channel with >100k subs, or especially in a stream with hundreds of viewers. You grow to never expect a back and forth)
This is exactly me. When I was active on Reddit, however, I would reply to comments even if I was several days late; only the person I was replying to, and possibly the person who made the original post, would get notified.
However, I am very reluctant to do that on Tildes because the whole thread gets bumped and everyone sees it on their front page again.
Yeah, I didn't realize that was a thing here, so when I replied to someone on an older thread and saw that "bump" happen I got a lil' spooked. Not like what I was saying was "bad" or anything, it's just more like talking with one person in-depth and then suddenly realizing other people around are also now paying attention to you, I get a little self conscious like "okay what I was saying wasn't that important, I was just wanting to share with one other person." Overall, I know it's not a big deal, but it likely still has some impact on my hesitation to reply.
I think it's great. Sometimes I'll see an interesting weeks or months old post on my front page that I missed at the time it was originally posted.
And I don't understand the reluctance people feel for commenting on old posts. If other people don't want to see old posts on their front page, they have two very simple ways of avoiding it: Change the sorting, or change the from-filter.
I do have to say though, as somebody who likes, discussion and hearing what other people have to say the bump to the front is a feature. I sort by activity because I want to engage where other people are engaging. So it's not a disruption to me or a thing that makes me or I assume other users like me, upset to see a zombie post or anything like that.
I get if the intent Is more individual communication and I try to be thoughtful about jumping in if that's what's occurring
I don't think the intend should be individual communication at all. To me, the whole point of having a discussion on a public site like this is that everybody can jump in and add their insight. If that's not the point, why have the discussion in a public place with open participation in the first place?
I agree that bumping to the front page is a feature. Why write something if not for other people to read it. And if I want to read others opinions about a topic, of course I want to see when somebody adds something new.
Because sometimes at a party, a couple of people have a particularly meaningful conversation between the two of them, and while they're actually in public, interjecting is something I would take a moment before doing.
Generally I find it more useful to reply to an earlier comment in the thread. But this isn't a hard or fast rule nor one I am imposing on others or anything just a thoughtful pause.
Both are valid points, though I have been active on forum type communities for long enough to personally not be bothered by the first point. I suppose that people used to the modern "chat" style of the internet might not see it like that.
The second point I didn't really consider. In my mind if you seek out small communities like Tildes you also do so while adjusting expectations or at least be aware of differences. For example, I am actually more inclined to attempt comment in smaller communities exactly because I am hopeful that there will be a reply. And I don't bother with things like YouTube videos.
Which to me also raises the question, why bother if you don't expect it to be seen in the first place?
The trust and enthusiasm that began with other sites really morphed and changed over the years. Maybe it's aging, maybe it's time, but similarly, I'm kind of ambivalent about conversing online for the sake of it. I'm tired of people's text -- I want to see their faces when they talk.
I agree that online people tend towards some really messed up behavior. Far more often than in-person people do. But I don't want to see people's faces online. I dislike face cams in streams, I dislike Youtubers that want to walk around holding the camera pointed at themselves ... seeing their face just doesn't add to my experience. Often the opposite.
Ah - so that's not totally what I meant. I want to see faces in real life, which is why I'm not as interested in talking online..having faces talk at me online sounds terrible.
Seeing thousands of people express opinions on innocuous Reddit topics - Jeeesus that'd be hell.
Obviously, it is your choice to delete comments, but even if you don't get an exemplary tag, your comment is still valuable.
If what you say is incorrect, another person correcting you, or you editing to point out a mistake can help people who had the same wrong idea as you to see where they went wrong. If what you comment isn't all new information, it can have something different than other comments that leads discussion down a different path.
Just like with research, not every paper has to be groundbreaking to be valuable. Lots of times the value is in what it inspires others to say instead of what you say.
I'm genuinely flattered but also don't want you to devalue your own input. <3
*blush
I am on the very far opposite end of @Creesch 's drive by user spectrum: the perennial tap root weed user. Like a dandelion, I sprout off and sprinkle comments all over the place, completely uninvited, whether there's any nutritional value to my thoughts or not. I can also often be seen editing my comment post-post like a barbarian rather than using the preview button like I'm supposed to.
....and even then Tildes hasn't yet booted me off and as far as I know don't have shadow Tildes where I'm not wanted .....
I'm also intimidated by the many knowledgeable and kind and thoughtful people here. I don't seem to let it stop me from commenting entirely, but, it might surprise people who are tired of seeing my inane comments, "this is only a fraction of my full strength" 😔
I do appreciate your perspective, though you don't fit the profile 🙂 Quickly checking your history you actually do follow up on comments if you feel it is needed. And yeah, a lot of your comments provide enough substance to be stand alone comments.
I think the bumping system also contributes. On reddit, if you comment, it's pretty easy for it to disappear into the ether. Versus on here, every comment pushes the thread to the top, and, with so few users, there's a good chance people remember what you end up commenting.
By thread do you mean the comment thread within the post or the post to the frontpage? I honestly haven't noticed the first being the case. For the latter, I suppose that depends on how you have your frontpage sorted? :)
Post to the front page. Very helpful in allowing posts to continue to generate good discussion.
Ah right, that highly depends on the sorting you have set as your default. For me, it is set differently, so bumping a post honestly isn't even a consideration to me.
Finally, an opportunity to explain myself!
There are some people who can type-out a well-reasoned essay almost as quickly as they can type. Not me! I spend at least 15 minutes on each paragraph I write, often double that. (Total time to write this comment: 57 minutes.) Every time I add a sentence, I reread the whole paragraph, checking for flow, gaps in reasoning, and possible misinterpretations. Like, I'm sure everyone does this to some extent, but I do this almost obsessively. And I have other obligations! I can't afford to spend an hour on a four paragraph essay.
So why do I obsess so much? Am I yet another perfectionist? Ha, if only! No, I suffer terribly from social anxiety. Sometimes I feel like an extrovert trapped in an introvert's body: I'm a city person, not a rural homebody; a good conversation brings me immense fulfillment, but I hate talking to people. I have close friends, but I procrastinate texting them. And to be clear, I don't think my comments are better off for this social anxiety-induced perfectionism -- I filter my sentences through their worst possible interpretations like some sort of sentence tumbler until they take their most anodyne form.
Hopefully this also explains why I do a rather poor job at responding to replies. When I do respond, it's usually more from a sense of duty than enjoyment.
You're not alone!
Another thing I want to add: It takes a lot for me to comment. I have to feel strongly about the topic and/or I want to add something that hasn't been said and/or I happen to be in a particularly good and positive mood. Add the anxiety on top of that. So then commenting becomes a bigger deal than for your average person.
It's like... I'm commenting DESPITE my anxiety, because I feel that it will be a net positive (maybe positive for others or positive for myself to feel heard). Even seeing a reply in my inbox makes me anxious (maybe I said something wrong? Maybe I sounded stupid? Maybe this person purposefully misconstrued? Maybe this person wants to argue? Etc.). If a particular reply or conversation goes badly, I tend to ruminate on it and it ends up affecting my day. So sometimes I figure I'll save myself the mental stress and just forgo reading them. Sometimes I purposefully avoid logging into the account or I'll avoid my inbox and maybe check a few days later when I feel like it.
I don't do that too often though. But I admit sometimes I do, and that's the reasoning.
I've sometimes played with the idea of adding a "total time to write" counter to many of my replies, since I'm very often the exact same.
Reminds me of the old quote: "If I had more time, I would have written you a shorter letter."
I forgot the name of the user. But someone on Tildes does add "comment box" to their comments with meta data like that. They explained that their typical humor is often misunderstood, as well as some other factors. So they just include information like
Comment box
humor: some sarcasmThat would be @scroll_lock. I can't recall if they specified how they're generating these. Someday when AI is ubiquitous and free I'd love to see this functionality baked into Tildes. It would be nice if this metadata was available for every post, but displayed in a less obtrusive manner. The real value would be adding additional site behaviors based on that metadata, like these (a few half-baked ideas, not meant to be a formal recommendation):
• Prevent a user from posting if the metadata indicates the message is inflammatory (pre-moderation). Or, less aggressively, present an "are you sure?" confirmation to prompt the user to take a breath before submitting.
• Color-code comments based on metadata. Could make the page really obnoxious looking if not implemented with some subtlety. But auto-flagging sarcasm in some distinct color would be helpful on occasion. Reducing the opacity of hostile comments, or auto-collapsing them, could also be nice.
• Summarize a user's tone/style on their profile page. Just a little box saying "this user frequently posts long, neutral comments" or something.
I recognize there's a danger here of such an AI-based system being exclusionary or biased in unexpected ways. It might not be a great precedent if the site auto-imbued certain content with positive or negative value. But I still think it would be an interesting experiment in new moderation techniques, in line with Tildes' ethos, and it could be a novel way of incentivizing good-faith participation. Or people could start min/maxing it for weird unintended SEO social gamification or something, I dunno.
scroll_lock writes the comments on their own. They said in this comment:
I was having the same idea about LLMs and automatically categorizing tone on internet comments for moderation. Instead of just having a filter to flag specific words or phrases, an LLM could evaluate the context to see if the word was being used in a hateful context or another context that is more appropriate. It could also automatically find new words where other symbols are substituted in to circumvent the filters by seeing that the context the new word is used in is the same as the filtered word.
For a discord server, I have actually experimented with this. Tone and context is still something LLMs struggle with. Which I think is because humans also struggle with it, as we all assume an awful lot about unwritten context between the lines.
You can get close, but at the moment it also becomes really expensive fast. This because the models that are actually fairly capable of handling tone and context are the expensive ones like GPT-4 and Claude Opus.
For a bit more background, me discussing this with others on Tildes a few months back.
It is why I do think scroll_lock's approach is pretty neat, though I do lack the self-discipline to add them myself. It is a nice hack on text lacking certain context clues.
@balooga had a good idea then with the mandatory tone description. I don't think it should be visible to users, or even moderators potentially. Just having someone take a breath and reflect on why they are commenting before they post it would probably end a lot of the big argument chains we see.
Hey, here's another thing to obsess about, something I have at the back of my mind when writing anything online now: There was also this article on another site a few years ago about how your style of writing could be simply analyzed to de-anonymize you across different sites. The proof of concept did it for all users on that site, and caught a 2nd account I had as a "likely duplicate" (I changed users because my old one had my real name and I didn't want to continue using it). The approach was fairly simple, using frequency of common groups of 2, 3 and 4 words. I wrote my own scripts to analyze my writing, to identify the my most commonly used phrases, and now I try to avoid those. It makes writing anything online even more of a chore xD
In that sense we are opposites. I have other forms of strong anxiety that are relieved by anonymous written forums.
I'm just one person but I am glad you make the effort sometimes.
I don't think it is that strange. I get the sense that Tilde's has a strong millennial presence. It was the generation where online communities were really accessible. Some of us spent a lot of our formative years getting to know people online and making friendships that way.
A place like Tildes feels second nature to me. I'm much more comfortable expressing myself in text than speaking to an acquaintance. It's a whole thing figuring out what energy to bring into a conversation, body language, thinking of the right thing to say on the fly. At least in text I can say what I mean, if someone dislikes it, that's fine, but at least I know I expressed my intent accurately.
My comment writing process is pretty much the same, though I'm going to attempt to write this one without much re-editing. So hey, you're not alone!
Interesting perspective! While I can at times obsess about finding the right phrasing, wording, etc I do have different motivators for doing so. Although the goal is probably similar, to be make as sure as possible that I have been as clear as I can be. Which is an impossible task given the wide variety of people reading/skimming text on the internet.
To hopefully take away a bit of that anxiety, while I see it resulting in sometimes the same behavior I don't think you are the target of my post. Since you do still reply to people and very clearly put thought and care in the comments you write. The hit-and-run drive by commenter from my post more often than not also has skimmed over some things. Having read enough to comment on-topic but also in such a way that it almost warrants a follow-up in my view. Often to just ask them to clarify on something which then never happens.
Btw, don't feel obliged to reply, feel free to do so though ;)
Same. (I'd elaborate, but I don't have the time)
There's an almost unspoken rule here that the majority of comments should be novella in length and frankly it's exhausting. I don't blame people for only doing it once in a while.
No no, absolutely not. Push back against that unspoken rule, it's harmful.
I would disagree with that notion, though I understand why you would think that.
Comments that don’t contribute to the conversation aren’t welcome - though they aren’t disallowed either. They just tend to be long because they are expressing ideas that merit nuance.
Though maybe some of us need to hire an editor. 😅
I tried to invite some people who I thought would be interested in Tildes and could be a good fit. They were interested until they actually looked at Tildes, and their response was:
Hmm. Maybe we do need to fix that perception.
I mean, I’d rather have super long, serious commenting over le updoot kind sir, narwhal bacon kek or whatever.
Yes, I know that’s totally reductive and old, I used Reddit for a LONG time. Still, I’m not really looking for disposable fluff anymore. Doesn’t have to be deadly serious, but, well, I am a grown-up.
I do agree, though I feel there also is a more healthy middle ground where not every serious comment needs to be the length of blog post. Which I think a lot of people do manage on Tildes, but there is also a group of people who seem to be capable of writing text that covers several paragraphs.
I'm actually surprised that Tildes doesn't want that perception, because it's definitely the "expected vibe" I've gotten from here. It's likely part of the reason I don't visit here much, I get tired of the "novella posts". I kind of wrote about this in this comment from a while ago. If I want to be honest, most of the time, I just find myself repeatedly scrolling past many looong comments, uninterested in reading any of them, until I realize what I'm doing and then go browse another social media (or if the stars are aligned just right, I put down my phone and actually do work).
And I know some people might dismiss me, thinking "well, you've just got a short attention span," I don't think that's it — I am fully capable of reading long news articles, blogs, books, and even long Tumblr and (formerly) Reddit posts, because they are engaging for me to read, I suppose. (Unfortunately, that seems to suggest that most of the long comments I read here are not engaging for me. I don't know if this is true for others, but hey, I'm not saying there needs to be a change, especially if the active users like the content I'm not interested in. It just depends on what Tildes wants to be. Not everyone is going to find the same content engaging and that's okay. I'm not demanding Tildes change for me.)
One other reason I think Tildes might have this image, is it seems it is actually enforced in the UI? For example, pete_the_paper_boat's silly “Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?” is collapsed, even though it had more upvotes than some non-collapsed comments in this particular comment thread. I can only assume that is because Tildes users marked it as "joke" or maybe "noise", which then auto-collapses it? The implication then, to a user (at least to me), is "jokes and silly small statements aren't encouraged here." This furthers the perception that Tildes is for "super long, serious commenting."
Is that the implication? Because I feel like there is an entire spectrum of comment types. Just speaking from my perspective, comments don't need to be super long or deadly serious. But, short one line jokes are also not what I come to Tildes for. In fact, the endless stream of low effort one line comments is what burned me out on Reddit, as it was sometimes next to impossible to find actual conversation.
So in the case of your example, I might also mark such a comment as noise. But when it comes with slightly more substance I probably will not.
I do agree that some people on Tildes seem to have taken it too far and seem to regard comment length as the only metric that matters.
To me, yes. Another user sent me a link explaining how the comment tags work. "Joke" scales ratings by 50%. "Noise" collapses comments and makes them the last in the list of comments. I didn't know that labeling something a joke would scale down the rating by 50%, I think that's kind of sad. I feel bad now because I remember using the joke label on a comment that I found funny, thinking it was a friendly way to acknowledge the person was telling a joke. The fact that labeling something a joke actually decreases its value as a comment, implies that jokes are not encouraged, they are literally scored lower than serious comments by the website's own design. This means that serious comments are intended to be "worth" more on this website. As a result, users who want their comments to "matter" better not tell jokes. I find this very strange honestly, if I was part of a real life discussion group that thought humor and jokes were less "worthy" of being said than serious statements, I would no longer be interested in participating. I think humor is an important part of life.
Knowing these comment tag rules now, I feel like I understand why I probably get more fatigued browsing Tildes threads than other social media—there's no breaks. Due to the sorting nature of the joke and noise tags, I am more likely to see a long list of serious comments before I get to a "break" of some joke or "noise." There's no room to breathe, in a sense.
Again, if this is how Tildes users like it, then by all means keep it this way. I am just pointing out how I see this idea that Tildes is "reddit, but with just super long, serious commenting" comes to be, since it was implied by @JCPhoenix that there might be a desire to "fix" that perception.
Sorry, you are entirely right, and I messed up citing the implication part while I wanted to focus on the conclusion you hang on to it.
Yes, jokes are discouraged, but does that immediately mean that the alternative is only "super long, serious commenting"?
This somehow implies to me that you don't see a middle ground in between comments that are only a joke and very long serious comments. In reality, I don't think there are many people here on Tildes who will use the joke tag if an otherwise on-topic comment contains a joking remark as well.
Which, if you look at reddit, I think is fairly reasonable. Online communities aren't small groups of friends, they are bigger crowds of people. Where with a group of friends joking around for a bit is fine before you turn back to somewhat more serious discussion that is difficult to achieve on online platforms. As jokes are also the easiest way to comment, what you tend to see is that start to dominate comments. Which then means that it is next to impossible to find normal conversations about things.
One last remark.
You are on Tildes, that makes you a Tildes user. I feel like you are doing a similar thing here where it you frame it as one or the other while ignoring that shit is in fact nuanced. Browsing this thread alone shows you that there is no exact consensus on what people on Tildes want.
That's funny, because that's not what I think at all. I was actually going to write something in my previous post about how I feel like there is a decent amount of "slippery slope" and "all-or-nothing" thinking in this thread in regards to people saying "I'm not here for 'updoots to the left' and 'narwhal bacon' type comments" when people talk about possibly fixing the perception that "Tildes has a perspective of being for long, serious comments."
I really have no idea what subreddits people here had been browsing, but I find a decent amount of normal conversations on Reddit. Yeah, there are jokes and noise, but they're easy to skip past, and sometimes maybe I want some low-hanging-fruit of a joke or "noise." Again, it gives room to breathe.
Sure, by "Tildes users" I should have meant "Tildes regulars," because yes, I suppose I am a "Tildes user," but I am not a "Tildes regular." I find the accusation that I am not being "nuanced" is strange, the fact that I am being viewed as "framing it as one or the other" is particularly ironic since that goes back to the "all-or-nothing" thinking I mentioned noticing in this thread earlier, and the serious and accusatory tone of this discussion is a good revelation to me of why I don't really like frequenting Tildes much in the first place. I seriously feel like I'm just on "reddit but with long, serious commenting." That's what I'm doing right now, long serious commenting. (And then the whole topic this discussion is happening under, the topic of "hit and run mystery commenters"—which I might fall under—make this even more funny to me, since I assume if I didn't reply to this comment, I would possibly reinforce the trope of a "hit and run commenter." Not that I should care about whether or not I fit into such a trope.)
All I have been saying in this particular comment thread is why I think Tildes has this image, from my perspective. The reason I emphasize "if Tildes users (by that I meant regulars) like it the way it is, then keep it" is because I just am stating my opinion and observations as someone who is not a regular, that no one has to agree with or accommodate, since my opinion isn't really worth that much here. 🤷♀️
I like that jokes are sorted down. It's pretty darn reliable over on Reddit to just flat out collapse the first, sometimes the first two or three, chains in a thread since they'll just be stupid meme jokes.
I'm not anti-humor. I just find that most of what gets upvoted as a "joke" is usually pretty obvious, and quite low effort. But that's what the masses like; lowest common denominator.
If the only contribution in the comment is a joke, then it is a joke. As in, posted only for the "joke". By my definition (and possibly Tildes' as well), that's a joke contribution, rather than something posted to advance the thread.
One thing about Tildes is that if you revisit a post, only "new" comments will be expanded, but obviously I don't know if this was your first trip to this thread or not.
In regards to "attention span," I agree with you. I read about a thousand pages a week give or take. I can absolutely sit and read something if necessary.
However I find too many lengthy comments here are done so for self indulgence, and not to make a point.
We could really start with cutting out rhetorical questions, those get overused a lot.
You can read about how this works in the Tildes docs on "Commenting on Tildes"
Summarized, the joke label will scale the ratings down by 50% while the noise label will collapse a comment and make sure it is last among the replies to the same comment.
Depends on what end of the spectrum they fall of commenting in my opinion. I fully agree that sometimes it seems like some people see comment length as the most important mark of quality on Tildes. At the same time, I most certainly don't want the endless stream of low effort one (maybe two) line (joke) comments like you'll often find on Reddit.
Basically, I think the bar should still on the level where in principle a comment is written with the intention to meaningfully talk about the subject. That doesn't mean that it can't contain a joke or humor but in most cases that shouldn't be the intend.
Perhaps we can have a chill section vs meaty discussion sections. I mean, make the distinction more deliberate and visual - eg on threads like this, sprinkle in avatars and memes and emojis and kaomojis and fun, and then when we're talking about homelessness or climate collapse or new wonderful science, then trim the fluff?
I believe the concern is the fluff inevitably subsumes everything else. That's why submitting simple images generally isn't allowed to my understanding.
Oh shit, I'm not meant to aim for long comments?
I like long comments
*Does Jedi mind trick* NO! you do not like long comments...
CC: @puddleofkittens
Not sure what can be done to break that notion but that is definitely not intended.
Yeah, the goal is a bit more serious, as in no memes and two-word responses, and thoughtfulness is the main goal, but thoughtful comments don't have to be long.
That's possibly another meta discussion to have. But I don't think it has stopped you from engaging in back and forth discussions on Tildes? At least, quickly checking your profile I see you engaging with people who replied to you. This already means you don't fit the profile of what, in my mind, hit-and-run commenters are.
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
That is exactly how I comment on Tildes. I even have a specific follow-up comment I need to write about writing that I never got to.
I think everyone has their own reason why they „hit and run” on here, but for me it’s probably best explained by an annoyance that carried over from reddit - getting burned out by an intense discussion with so many users. I always remind myself that a public comment on social media is not a one-on-one dialogue, it’s talking to a crowd with a lot of mics handed out in the audience.
I also don’t like answering to posts that sound like monologues, that feels the same as commenting on a news article or YouTube video, hoping that the author reads your reply.
Maybe it’s all just too much „social media burnout” for me.
Oh yeah, I have to remind me of the same thing often enough. I still probably care too much about discussion online for my own good. Which is probably reflected in me making this post :D
While you check a lot of the boxes for the sort of person I did describe, I don't think you and them are the same. While the frequency matches, you often seem to reply to posts not other comments. Where I do see you replying to comments, I also see follow-ups.
It's something I probably should have clarified in the post. What made it stand out to me is that these are comments in reply to a comment I made. So they are already, in my mind anyway, engaged in a part of the conversation.
Yeah, more than fair :) Just to clarify though, the people I attempted to target with my post leave it at one turn. They come into a thread, often leave on random comment and then disappear for a period. As I said in my main post, these are not stand-alone comments that summarize. They are replies to something I said, and often enough the sort of replies that at the very least want me to follow up to get a clarification on something.
Clearly, my post (I am guessing the title) has spoken to a broader group of people. Which I don't mind, the wide variety of perspectives has been interesting so far!
It is sort of what I mean. The sort of comments where I noticed it were replies further down the hierachy of a comment thread. So they were replies to a specific comment. Which in itself isn't odd or detached from context. What does make it random is that it would be the only reply of that person in a period of an entire month, and therefore the only comment they left in an entire thread. Comment threads where there are often multiple discussions touching on similar points. So it sometimes does look like they semi randomly did pick who to reply to, replied and then moved on.
That is also what I mean here. From my perspective, if you reply to someone specifically in a thread you also do generally do at some point check if that person replied and maybe follow up on it. Not always of course, just broadly speaking. So to consistently comment to never reply on follow-ups to me classifies as disappearing.
I don't either, I certainly don't expect people to be glued to their inbox. But as a general rule of thumb I would expect people to be engaged in at least sometimes be engaged to some degree. The sort of people that made me create this post seemingly never engage other than that initial comment they leave.
After several decades' use of BBS forums and their ilk, I've come to think that the best answer after I've said what I meant to say is silence. I genuinely appreciate good conversation (and, like I assume many here, find Tildes a refuge from the storm that is 99% of social media) but the nature of the interface makes it impossible to drop a conversational thread after it has run its course. Which is fine! It is great to be able to read things at a later date. But it does mean that back and forths tend to grow and linger longer than is beneficial. So I just... stop after one or two. And that's ok. :)
If it's all been said already, then why bother?
Wait, did I just bother?
I'm not sure exactly what you're describing or if it applies to me, but I like to write out long comments that "invite a reply" and don't always respond to people who do. This is my Tildes commenting workflow:
I'm not really here for ongoing back-and-forth conversation. Typically I've said everything I have to say in my first message; after that, anything further would just be fluff. I'm mindful of the fact that commenting on a deep thread nevertheless bumps the whole post for everyone and I want to respect people's time and attention.
Not really, because you still follow up when you feel it is needed.
To be honest, the replies so far have been really interesting showing various perspectives. But, none of the people so far fall under hit and run commenters.
I'm not the target audience lol but I think you've actually answered your own question: People tend to follow up on comments when they feel it is needed. This could mean a variety of things, but I feel like the simplest reason is that "hit and run" commenters don't view Tildes as one of their regular social spaces. Therefore, they are not as invested in having digital interactions with other people here. In addition to other reasons people have mentioned, I would consider posting anxiety as a possible explanation. Maybe the commenter has read your response, but they don't want to keep a conversation going because they are uncomfortable with the spotlight of directly being addressed on a public forum.
Sure, but why bother commenting at all? Some of the users I spotted seem to at least have Tildes in a weekly/monthly rotation and do seem to be involved enough to dive into discussions, read comments and leave on themselves.
Sometimes they really are simple observations, fair enough, no further reply needed. But sometimes they are really the sort of replies you'd expect to see as part of a conversation. Several levels deep in a thread, etc.
And yeah, sometimes it really does seem to be because people aren't invested in Tildes in the slightest. Some of these I started to notice, as it is clear the people posting them have only skimmed the conversation and are not even really replying to what was said. But then I have to go back to "why bother at all?".
People want to say their piece and leave it at that. Perhaps they want to flag nuance that is being overlooked but also recognize that a back and forth on a website isn't going to change minds. In some cases it's just avoiding the sunk cost fallacy.
Often times I type up a response and delete it. Writing the response scratched the itch of reflection and the end result isn't particularly substantive. Some people might get to that point and decide they'll post it and move on. I don't think either is a poor decisions; different strokes.
I don't think I'm in this group of people you've identified but I probably only reply to ~40% of replies on my comments. The majority of replies are akin to a fist bump to acknowledge "yeah what you posted resonated" I appreciate that and will give a vote to indicate I saw it. But there is nothing for me to add and I don't need to have the last word.
I'm getting the sense your entire position here is "why not moar conversate!!!" when it comes to threads/replies.
Online isn't really super conducive to "conversations", despite the attempts of social media at large, and individual sites insisting on naming things "threads" and "conversations" and "chat" and so on. People feel far more emboldened online to be confrontational, disruptive, and difficult. Rude even a lot of times (though, at Tildes so far, there's much less of that).
I tend to think until I have complete thoughts. I don't often post until I feel I have a complete thought to share. I only share it here if I feel it's something not being said, or something that should be said. Lots of other places I'll just roll my eyes when the same "conversation" comes up again for them to flounder around in like a crowd carving with chainsaws.
And I've learned that people don't want a complete thought if they think they're having a "conversation." For this reason, one of my rules is to not get into chains. Into back-and-forth. So I probably fit your hit-and-run definition, but I don't care because whenever I violate my in and out style, people accuse me of stuff.
The last time I violated it, the person told me "this isn't a debate." Um ... thanks? For being an ass I guess? But I didn't say that because that would be confrontational, and I was already irritated enough by the debate comment.
Fuck me for thinking, or at least posting, in complete thoughts I guess. I'm supposed to post fragments or something, that leaves other posters the opportunity to wander by, stop and stoop down, and proudly pick up a shiny find I left there for them. So other posters are my kids now I guess, and I'm to make sure they have a good time, rather than participating to the limit of my ability and interest.
Neither is elevated or enhanced by being drawn into a chain of online "conversation."
And while it might not be a super big problem here, elsewhere it's a surefire route to rudeness. People hate feeling like they've "lost" in a conversation. What's lost? Well that part I'm not entirely sure about, because the whole notion makes little sense to me. But for a lot of them, it seems to often involve "not knowing everything" or "they disagree with me." In either case, that's where the rudeness surfaces to either shift the ground (into an uninteresting argument) or as a way to drive you off (so they can own the ground in isolation).
Chains, online "conversations" are where the rudeness surfaces. Pass.
So, here is the thing. I'd like to reply to several of the things you comment on here. At the same time, I also feel like there is a conflict of interest. Because the person mentioning that it is not a debate, but a conversation, was actually me.
Which I feel is only fair of me to point out. Some of what I was about to type out here is also applicable to what made me make that remark in that thread. I honestly am not even sure it is applicable to the overall conversation here. Though I do think, personally, that it could be a worthwhile conversation to have. So I'll just leave it for now with the remark that my remark then was not intended to be confrontational, rude, or disruptive but rather as honest feedback from my perception.
This isn't the whole answer, but I think at least part of it is purely technical. I mostly interact with Tildes via an iOS app that is still a work in progress, and it usually doesn't notify me when someone has replied to one of my comments. Every now and then I look at the "my account" view and am surprised to see that someone reacted to something I said a couple of weeks ago. Unless they have asked me a direct question I usually figure that by that time there's no point in continuing the conversation.
I use three cheers app on android and it notifies me. I believe three cheers also exists on IOS.
Three Cheers is great, but I use another app that displays text in a larger font that’s easier for me to read.
I actually did get a notification of your reply, so maybe that issue has been resolved.
u/talklittle, any chance you'll add some more accessibility features to the app like adjusting font size?
Yes, font size options are on my todo list for Three Cheers.
I don't think you mean me, but I do have a habit of "remembering that Tildes exists", then reading/voting/commenting regularly for a few days or weeks, then drifting off for a month or 3, quite possibly leaving discussions unfinished and ultimately forgotten.
I expect what you are seeing is variations of similar habits of intermittent activity.
This is mostly what I thought at first as well. What makes these comments stand out to me is that it really is one comment in a blue moon. So as far as intermittent activity goes it is really brief.
Especially because replying to discussions, at least at this stage, usually bumps posts up the feed dramatically. Which isn't ideal when you haven't got a lot to say.
The Three Cheers for Tildes app puts it front and centre for me when I'm looking to scratch that public forum itch. Might be worth a look?
I'm not very active on tildes. I do visit often enough but I don't comment as much. Mainly because I don't think I can contribute much. I'm not as knowledgeable or verbose as many here.
While I do try to reply, there have been many times where someone has replied to me, and I want to reply, but I got busy. Or I've had too much going on mentally or something else and I'd forget about Tildes entirely for a while.
Then by the time I remember, it would have been way too long.
But also, I have commented in different online spaces without replying sometimes. Sometimes you just want to yell your opinion into the void and then move on with life.
What did you expect to get from this? From my point of view and experience as an anxious person, it seems more of a personal than an intellectual pursuit. You started talking about how people ghosted you in particular before generalizing, then I see you checking users profiles to see if they fit the bill.
I'm really trying to understand. We all have an inherent need for closure that can be frustrating to be denied. You could change the question to "Does it happen to you too?" and maybe realize it's just a fact of life.
I didn't expect much at all, to be honest. My post really is about a relatively small group of users displaying very specific behavior. So when it blew up with so many people sharing their experience, it honestly surprised me. It has been fascinating seeing all the different perspectives.
At the same time, when reading those perspectives I also noticed that going by their own description don't fit the group I am most curious about. So yeah, I also checked their profile as just of a sanity check confirming that this is the case. Can you elaborate on why checking someone's profile is something that you seem to have an issue with?
Because I personally don't really see an issue with that. People on platforms have profiles, tildes also has a little bio section you can fill in for others to look at. I often find myself having a quick glance at a profile for a variety of reasons.
Anyway, to get back to the general topic, I am not even frustrated by people not responding. This is the internet, of course you won't always get responses.
And again, I can't stress this enough, even if I haven't gotten an answer to my exact question, this entire thread has been worthwhile on its own. It genuinely is fascinating to see all the different perspectives people bring to the table.
Most of the comments that I write, I don't post. I look at what I have written and don't see that I'm really adding any value to the conversation, or can't formulate my thoughts properly, and so I delete what I have I written. In these cases, the only trace of me appreciating another person's comment is the anonymous vote that I may give it.
This comment actually is one of those that I would normally delete, as I don't think I'm quite able to make a coherent and original point here, especially given the amount of space that it's taking, but I decided to keep it, in the spirit of the topic.
There is also one situation which is pretty much from the other extreme: when I ask advice, I think I tend to write too many "thanks, this is helpful" type comments, which just don't add any value to the conversation. But when I have asked for information or advice and receive it, it also feels too anonymous to only give a vote to the comment. And using an "exemplary" label wouldn't be proper form, either.
In fact, I feel it would be helpful to have something like a "thanks" label. Something that would work a little like "exemplary", but would only be shown to the person that you are thanking. As with "exemplary", you could add a small message, including your name, if you so wish. It would give me the possibility of telling the commenter that I've really appreciated their comment, but I don't have anything meaningful or constructive to add to the conversation. So, basically, information that is important to me and the other person, but total noise for everyone else. Something that in a face-to-face conversation would be conveyed with a nod or a smile or a similar gesture. I guess I could use a private message for something like that, but that again feels quite out of place, as it is the opening of another communication channel, when the whole point is that I want to close the old one.
Also, like others, I do tend to disappear and come back, sometimes not visiting for half a year or so. Recently, I've been following Tildes more consistently as I discovered that I can get new posts through an RSS feed. But that of course doesn't promote comment activity from me, since I rarely visit the front page and therefore don't re-visit threads where interesting conversation may be happening. And I also only notice that someone has replied to a comment of mine when I visit the website, which only happens when I see something interesting in my feed. This is certainly a problem very much of my own doing, and the solution would be to just visit the website more often, but at the same time, I just don't really have the mental bandwidth to explicitly visit websites to check if something interesting is happening. That's what my RSS reader, email account and my mobile phone's notifications are for.
With users like me, getting more activity out of us would probably require some sort of a notification system (RSS, email, something), which would tell me about replies to my posts and comments, and perhaps more importantly, would somehow promote to me threads that contain interesting discussion. Could there for instance be an RSS feed that promotes particularly active threads (without notifying about every single new comment)?
I've seen this thanks-issue come up several times in my brief time here. It seems like we really need to be able to mark our own posts as noise as we post them, so we have a safe method for "uninteresting" but important interactions like that, without needing others to process and tag for us. I know whenever I offer suggestions, someone saying thanks or that they'll follow up on my suggestions feels like a treasure. It's tragic that many consider such posts as things they should avoid.
A way to drop a "thanks" (maybe as a 'helpful' label) would be awesome!
To frame this phenomenon as 'hit and run' (unintentionally) implies malice where I don't think there is any. In my case it probably just means I don't have anything to add and I've understood that off topic "spam" thankyous aren't really appreciated, so I'm only replying with those when I really feel like it.
I assume my replies have been read and unless I'm asking a follow-up question, I don't really expect a reply back.
To echo some comments in this thread, I've found myself increasingly stopping midcomment, because I don't have time to finish my thought or don't want to potentially spend an evening in a back-and-forth when I disagree about something trivial (has yet to happen on Tildes but I'm still cautious).
It's kinda just easier to be respectful when you're quiet.
Edit. Continuing my thought with a feature suggestion: 'Chat' option next to the regular reply. This would hide the comment (and the sub comments) from the activity feeds, kinda like how the noise label now works (I think?). Turning the comment chain into a "chat" would probably feel inviting for both parties, why not others too, to start chatting. (As a sidenote, noise label also feels a bit malicious, unintentionally too I'm sure.)
I don't believe this to be a real solution to every reply left unacknowledged but that's just a fact of life, sometimes those happen.
It was more me attempting to come up with a tongue in cheek of phrasing it. I also think it is highly applicable to the sort of commenters I had in mind when writing this post. Which you don't fall under as quickly checking your profile shows you do follow up on comments in plenty of conversations.
The sort of user I do have in mind, truly just leaves a single random comment every once in a while and never follows up to them.
Yeah, it's descriptive and fits, agreed. Probably no one will actually find offense in it, that was more of an observation (and maybe a little constructive criticism), as it does have these negative connotations that might not be the most fruitful starting ground especially for those that by your own description aren't really the talkative type.
But seeing how much attention this thread has gotten, that doesn't seem to be a problem.
Occasionally I have something worth saying, but spending more than five minutes on it doesn't feel like a good use of my time. Likewise, getting into any kind of back and forth doesn't feel like it's worth the time and energy required - especially after considering that Tildes threads have a tendency to turn into essay writing contests. I ain't got time for that.
Additionally, even though I do usually check in on the site a couple of times per day, sometimes weeks can go by without seeing anything here that feels worth commenting on. Either I'm not interested in most of what's posted or I have nothing to add.
I feel you on the essay writing contests. Sometime I actually enjoy it when someone leaves a snarky comment asking for my sources because it forces me to do deeper research to defend myself that can actually make me change my stance. Other times it can be exhausting to spend time trying to respond to someone who nitpicks a sentence that isn't even the main point you were trying to say.
I don't comment much because I find others have already expressed my thoughts more eloquently than I would have. And so when I do reply, it's often in a manner that challenges. I'll stop replying if I feel that I've already conveyed my thoughts as well as I ever will, if the other person doesn't seem receptive, or if someone else has already made the point in between my replies. As part of getting older, I'm slowly learning that I don't have to be a part of every conversation until I've been completely understood. It's okay to say something once and then step away.
I think I would operate like this anyway, but comments bumping posts to the top add an element of guilt as well.
This I can fully understand. It can be tiresome to engage people on the internet. Personally, I am probably too stubborn to let that stop me from trying but disengaging from discussions after you have felt you said what you wanted to say is totally understandable.
Interesting here to me is this bit
Showing that you are at least initially replying and following up as long as you consider it productive/valuable. The sort of comments I tried to describe in my post really are of the hit-and-run type of variety. If you check the profiles of these users, you only see solo comments.
Ah I see what you mean now and that's kind of weird then. Tildes is kind of aggressive at encouraging a reply imo, where the reply shows up as a badge in the top right unless you actively click "Mark as read", so I'm surprised people could just consistently leave one comment and dip.
It's because we either have nothing worth saying, are too incredibly lazy to say something, or are jaded by years of online conversations deteriorating into tit-for-tat insults and chaos that we simply don't care enough to engage anymore.
Personally, I don't feel like I have a good reply. Unless the person who replied to me has a question, then I don't know what to say back. I don't want to add some generic response like "that's interesting!". Although I'm probably guilty of that. Sometimes I check a message and think "I'll figure out a response later", but then never do.
I do this sometimes. Sometimes it comes down to the fact that I am tired or busy by the time I check Tildes, and can't commit to writing a reply. Sometimes this means it is a day or two, and then I wonder what is the point, particularly when the discussion has moved on. I often intend to reply and will leave notifications uncleared, but after a couple of days I just cut my losses and move on. I have found myself commenting less when real life gets busy to preempt this a bit.
I think I am guilty of this to some degree, and it's a definitely not intentional behavior, nor do I mean to be disrespectful. I love the more reserved, thought out, and less invasive style of tildes. Sorry if I've offended anyone with this.
When I read a thread and feel compelled to reply, I do so if I have time. Because time is my most scarse resource lately it's often the case that I won't reload tildes for a day or so after leaving a comment. That next day session might be as brief as five minutes, and in that time I may not notice that I've received replies. I don't check the sidebar too much. Maybe because I'm conditioned by pushier websites that demand your attention with lots of bright and flashy things if you have a message.
Definitely interesting to read this thread, and I'll try to be more mindful. I'd like to see this community flourish and never considered that my commenting habits might be harmful to that goal.
Cheers!
I don't think that OP is saying it is harmful per se, please don't let your participation be forced or your non participation guilt ridden - I think it's more of a curiosity and a shy reaching out to wave gently at all of our "CD-ROM" users (eg "read only") to say, hi, I see you, and it's nice to have you here.
True. It's a neat take on something I had never thought about. Still l, I definitely appreciate the kind interpretation!
While I love the format this site shares with others, I've been guilty of fly by night posting because it feels like it don't know anybody here.
It's far smaller than Reddit, but the low profile of the username in the UI has me focusing less on people, more on the idea.
Odd opinion, but I'd love to see Ikonboard style custom avatars come back for users. Some simple, 100x100 image that sits alongside yiur post. Gimme gimme gimme!
As an old person from days of forum boards, I do miss profile images and yes, even signatures. They take up a lot of room and add visual noise and are a quagmire to moderate/enforce yes, but they also really provide personality and warmth to a cold digital place.... With the advent of customization and collapsible elements, maybe the web is once again ready for some colourful, joyful, human centric noise?
I'm not a monthly, not yet a poster, but I do have the tendency to drop a comment then pretend I was never there when the replies start coming in. That comes down to two main factors. First, I take forever to put my thoughts into readable words. Second, as soon as I'm done, the self-doubt comes rolling in. Rather than wrestle with my own (potential? confirmed?) stupidity, I just peace out and wait for the next flash of inspiration that justifies the time and anxiety.
It doesn't happen super often for me, but there are times where I get a reply- whether it's good faith or not- that seems to completely be on a tangent, or missing my point entirely (willfully or not), or just, in some form or another, not something I feel it is worth my time replying to, or not worth the amount of energy it's going to take to try to steer that person into understanding what I'm saying (a lost cause, basically...)
Then, on the other side of things, there are plenty of replies to me that don't seem to be necessitating/"wanting" a reply back from me, that I have often replied to in the past, and I try more lately not to always reply to replies unnecessarily (sometimes I have an overactive sense of "I need them to know I read their post by replying to it" - like not replying is somehow not acknowledging someone's reply)- it's tough when the brain works overtime thinking about how what I'm doing or not doing is being perceived always
Then, there are times I write out a long reply, realize someone else in the thread has articulated things much better, and so I delete before posting and move on.
Basically, there are many reasons I may not reply (or continue a thread of back and forth) and my anxiety makes me worry about every single one of them :)
I do think that this is 90% of why I post, and so darn much of it, on this site as well as others.....
On other platforms such as Discord and Whatsapp, there is an option to "emoji" tag respond to a post without adding any words. I use them heavily as the visual version of those "sounds at the boundary of language and paralanguage, or nonlanguage", such as "Hmm" in agreement and the frequent use of "right/yeah/I see".
Do you, and other readers of this comment, think a 16*16 iconographic "yes I've read" receipt feature would be welcome on Tildes? Should it be traceable to users who clicked it? I do think it will add noise so perhaps it would only work as an optional feature. But it would be a kind of noise that I want, since I'm making them with full blown text all the time already....
I do think it would be nice, but also understand how it could feel superfluous to others.
I often "vote" for a post in lieu of replying as a very small signal of acknowledgement, but votes are anonymous, so it's tough to feel like it's effective for that.
I'm likely not a "mystery commenter" but I will provide my two cents since that seems to be requested.
I grew up reading books and I quite like reading books. Most of the interactions I have with places such as Tildes is to read the various commentary posted by others which gives more value to a submission than the parent article itself. Stepping into that sort of conversation means that I feel that I have something useful to provide towards it and I typically feel that my contribution would not be all that useful.
Others tend to post whatever thoughts I have and tend to do so with more eloquence than I feel I could provide. Still, quality aside, there was likely a conversation that sparked from that comment that went in whatever organic direction it wanted to go. It seems a bit disruptive to reply to an earlier comment in that chain with a different point of view since it implies that I want to derail the ongoing conversation. Regardless, it seems like a lack of replies just reinforces how my commentary wasn't all that interesting or helpful to anyone reading along.
Posting anything in a typed manner can expose grammatical issues. I can tend to repeat myself or repeat comments stated ad nauseam by many other people. Such literary weaknesses can be pointed out by others and used by them to attempt to destroy the intentions of my comment. I do understand to a degree - reading something with literary issues can be a bit annoying. The issue is more myself than others, at least I think. I read what I type, judge it harshly, and choose not to post anything in the end.
Getting back to the original topic, that of the "mystery commenter", I theorize that the internet provides an easy out for them to duck out of any conversations. In real life, you are physically in a conversation and have to find some way to exit the conversation when desired (usually by creating a made up thing that requires your immediate departure). On the Internet, you can just vanish. It is easier with platforms such as this because you will tend to not know who I am (since my username is barely noticeable at the top of this topic anyway). It was harder on forums since my user information tended to have a forum signature, profile image, and other easy to notice identifying marks. I could "become known" to the community and feel more at ease when I notice other familiar people. Here... it is just random blue usernames above a see of seemingly anonymous comments.
Regardless, if I find some apparent way to contribute then I may send in a comment. If this were a forum then my long winded narrative would become legendary. However, since this is more of a Reddit like place, I tend to try to keep my comments brief and terse. Hopefully this longer comment serves to spark a bit of thoughtful contemplation.
I actually feel more comfortable commenting here than on other platforms, considering it's a reasoned debate that isn't being actively data-mined (by its own host, at least). That being said, if I'm speaking anecdotally or through qualitative reasoning, don't ask me to cite my sources like I'm presenting a dissertation! This is just an online convo, and I want to spout my opinion! Thank you. I still respond to these on occasion, but I generally don't want to.
Guilty!
My feeling/point/opinion is often already present in another comment and in a much more clear and precise way that I could ever communicate.
Also, I'm more willing to elaborate on the level that Tildes requires when I'm sitting in my desk with a keyboard. But I access Tildes on my phone the majority of the time. And while on the phone I feel uncomfortable to write anything other than simple answers, partially because I don't have the ease to research things as easily as I do on the computer.
i want to engage meaningfully but i'm also burnt out so it's hit or miss and it would be weird to respond a week later like i do with friends and texting 😅
yoooo but everyone here saying they're afraid they're not good enough or smart enough, makes me want to comment more and lower the bar 🫡 i feel like most tildeans? tildefolk? tildessii? are here partially bc we understand that we are humans with different shit to offer and it's ok for the person who speaks 3 languages or has dyslexia or gets really sweaty when they try to discuss things to have a voice in conversations and often super important to have those voices. as a member of the YOLO generation, yol on my good people. let's get comfy. let the comments wash over u
Yoooooo. I feel you. Let's lower the bar together, comrade. 🫡 lol
it will be an honor to witness ur craft 🙏
I have been a fairly infrequent commenter here. I think part of it is the lower churn rate compared to Reddit combined with some fairly hefty ADHD. I do hit and run commenting because I do hit and run browsing - I pull up the site, read for a few minutes, then... go do something else. Read a book, play with the dog, etc. Come back in a day or two. As opposed to the 3 hours a day of Reddit that made conversations more practical.
As a newcomer to the platform, I haven't had the chance to notice the phenomenon you're describing with those monthly mystery commenters. It's interesting to hear about, though, and I'm curious to learn more about what drives them to leave those hit-and-run comments without engaging further. Looking forward to hearing from others on this topic!
Late to the party here, but... there's a few reasons I end up not following up to comments.
The main one is that I sometimes just forget I commented something, or I read the comment and don't reply immediately, but by the time I remember, it's been too long and I feel like it would be awkward. (I'm either very forgetful or this is another sign I might have ADHD.) Having been told off for necro-ing threads on forums in the past, I always worry I'm going to accidentally do it again.
Though I browse on my phone, I tend to just bookmark stuff intending to get back to it later (and then by the time I do, it's been too long to comment; see last paragraph) because I don't like typing long text on my phone. I only turn my computer on about once a week, so that gives me less opportunity to comment on anything to begin with.
I'm also not an anglophone (French is my first language) and the process of trying to translate my ideas in a way that makes sense is just exhausting sometimes, and some days I just don't want to bother with it. My work environment in daily life is mostly anglophone and I deal with enough misunderstandings/mis-translations there that I don't want to do the same online too.
Lastly, I came here from Reddit where this sort of thing isn't looked down on like it apparently is here (which I didn't realise until I saw this post), so I guess it's force of habit to a point. On Reddit there's also not much of a point in commenting on posts older than a couple of days unless you're in a very small sub where that's the norm, so often I'll see something interesting here but stop myself from commenting because the post is too old, or as I said previously, by the time I can actually get back to a comment to reply properly, I feel it'll be awkward because the post/comment is too old by now.
I didn't realise this was considered such a big problem/faux pas here. I'll try to do better.
In the aftermath of rexxit, I applied to tildes (bc the discussion aspects are something I enjoy), kbin (as a possible rexxit alt), and re-joined imgur (gotta get my memes from somewhere!). kbin approved me right away and it took several weeks for tildes, so I'd already joined communities and stuff over there, where a lot of my posting remains. I still check in here once or twice a month, and occasionally comment if the thread is still fresh, but I almost never get to any replies while they're still fresh and I generally don't necro topics.
Posted it in ~tildes as I noticed it within the context of this community. It likely is something that happens on other communities as well. But those are often too massive for me to notice in the first place (so barely communities to speak of) or care about us much in the first place.
I have talked with Hacker News users about Tildes as a comparative community and many of them think the notifications are “toxic” (will drive people into knock-down, drag-out conversations) but I have also talked to people who think Tildes is not assertive enough in notifications.
One thing I note on Mastodon is that there is some awkwardness in ending conversations such that a lot of people seem to use favorites to indicate that “I read your comment and found it worthwhile” or maybe just “I’m (politely) done with this thread”
I love HN for what it is, I’ve seen those takes, and I even buy the fundamental premise…
…but holy hell is it richly ironic to compare the two sites in terms of toxicity that way. Dan is a good moderator, but HN comments on any remotely contentious issue wind up dimethylmercury toxic despite that.
E: and if this were HN, I’m also sure I’d have some bizarro mercury-denialist telling me my comment is fundamentally flawed because mercury compounds are perfectly safe and they drink it for breakfast every single day.
That's hilarious. I enjoy HN comments. Though I haven't looked at my HN feed for years at this point, so I don't know if the commenter culture has changed since then, but I always found the discussions interesting. I don't know if I just haven't stumbled upon these "toxic" topics or if I am actually an unaware toxic demon and comment toxicity feeds my soul. 😈
That’s why we have a flag button on HN. When certain topics turn up people that I otherwise like a lot seem to turn into werewolves. There are certain topics where I will flag any article pro- or anti- because it ends in tears.
What is the Hacker News setup? The notifications on Tildes seems pretty mild considering you have to specifically visit the site to see any notifications. Any notifications can end in drawn out back and forth conversations, but I don't see what a good alternative would be. My intuition is that no notifications would end in less discussions or disorganized discussions where each new comment in a chain is from a different user.
Hackernews has no notifications, but you can see replies to your comments if you navigate to your comments in your profile. The closest indicator you have of there being some engagement with what you wrote is when the karma (or however it is called on hacker news) counter goes up. Which I actually think is more detrimental, as that just drives people to leave comments that will do well in votes and nothing else.
I think some people just reload their comments page frequently.
Interesting that you mention Hacker News. There I almost expect people to not follow up as there is no context clue someone has replied to you. So in that regard, expectations are partially driven by the design of the platform conversations take place on.
I don't have experience with Mastodon, though I personally don't have a problem with a conversation ending by someone simply not replying anymore. As I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I don't expect people to always reply to everything at all times. I really just noticed a small group of people who just never seem to reply at all and just leave solo comments.
I think the most emotionally fragile users from Twitter migrated to Mastodon. I have been using commenting systems online since the 1980s when I logged into BBSes with a 300 baud modem and only recently have I encountered people who were so quick to get angry because somebody wrote a comment “just 15 minutes after I posted it” that they felt spoiled their masterpiece. There is a common gender slur now about “reply guys” from people who don’t get what a miracle it is that you can “reach out and touch someone” online.
Managing your own and other people’s emotions have always been a part of online conversations but I feel it a lot more acutely now. I am definitely thinking about sentiment analysis models to help but collecting 5000 angry toots would probably ruin my mood for a few weeks. Before I reply I try to get a sense of “does this person build their identity around victimhood?” (often people scream it in their profile) or “do they regularly take a spaz when people comment?” and teaching my YOShInOn RSS reader to participate in ActivityPub and build dossiers on Mastodonsters for that purpose is on my agenda.
A few years back I was told I was contributing "noise". didn't like that and stopped posting for a few years