Deciding whether (or not) to have a child
My partner and I have long been on the fence about whether or not to have a child. Now we're approaching middle age, it feels like it's a 'now or never' decision point, and ... well, I'm still torn.
On the one hand, I see the state the world is in. I'm keenly aware of the latest climate projections and what they mean (I also know enough to know how much we can still improve things if we decide to). I'm afraid of escalating instability and societal strife. What if I can't get my medications? I don't know how I'd go on even without a child in the picture. I still struggle to accept the world as it is, which is quite a bit bleaker than it was portrayed to me growing up. I spent years of my life wishing I was not born. How could I bring a child into that circumstance?
On the other hand, I'm really, really good with kids (and teenagers!) and find relationships with them really rewarding. I love spending time with my nieces, nephews, and friends' kids, and it leaves me wishing I could also shape a human with the values and priorities that are most important to me - stewardship, patience, music. I don't want the religious wingnuts to be the only ones shaping the next generation! My partner and I have a lot of privileges and would be able to offer a lot to a child, from quality education, to a fantastic extended family, to multiple powerful citizenships / passports. Hell, our parents would even move in to help us out with childcare for at least the first few years. You can't ask for much more than that.
Obviously this is a big question, and it's one my partner and I are talking about extensively. I'm also going to return to counseling soon to piece through things.
I'm certain that others on Tildes have also navigated this question. Do any of my thoughts resonate with you? What did you decide and why? Are you happy with your choice?
And has anyone adopted? Adoption is the dark horse here. Once upon a time that was my preferred route, but now that I've spent a lot more time reading about the risks and realities I've cooled on it a bit. I am certain I can deal with many challenges of raising a child, but not stuff like oppositional defiance or connection disorders, which occur at ~2x the rate in adopted children, many of whom have trauma. They deserve love too, but unfortunately I have limits due to my own mental health troubles. And all of that is to say nothing of the often sketchy or uncomfortable legal and societal circumstances of adoption.
I deeply appreciate any and all thoughts and experiences you take the time to share.
Strong interpersonal relationships, family, and children are some of the best things we do as humans. They provide the most rewarding aspects of our lives. It sounds to me like you would be wonderful parent and raise kids with values to help other people in an uncertain future.
My vote is have kids because they will be the best aspect of your life by a country mile. But I'm biased, I have 4.
Well hey, I appreciate that.
Noodling on this, I have a couple of tangential questions.
Have you ever wished you weren't born? That your parents hadn't had you?
and
How do you talk to your children about the uncertain world and future?
I've never wished I wasn't born, so I don't know how to relate there.
I'm grateful I get to experience life.
I have 3 kids under 8 and the oldest is just now getting exposed to the concept of climate change but just like most people, we don't know exactly what's going to happen. He knows we care about recycling and green energy and I think our views on it are becoming his views.
Overall we focus on caring for other people, all people. it's going to take everyone contributing to get through whatever the future will bring us. I like to say "Never underestimate human ingenuity" and I truly believe we can do great things as a people. I'm hopeful that my kids will be a force for good in the world like I try to be.
I also have a 17 year old. That's a different story. she has a negative outlook on everything. I'm partially to blame, but she grew up mostly with my ex-wife. When it comes up, I do my best to impart hope.
The future has always been uncertain. A multi year drought, a plague, an invading army or a myriad of other things have caused incredible harm to communities. But we persevere, we adapt, and we move forward with the help of those around us. It's what makes us humans the dominant species on this planet.
But I'm biased because I'm a rich white guy in America.
Your 17 year old is hopeless about the future? What age did that manifest, and do you see a route out of it?
(I see some of my teenage self in that, sadly)
It's gotten more noticeable in the last year or so. I only saw her 2 months a year before that, so I'm not sure.
If an answer from someone who has previously wished that, but has since had a kid and agrees with this person that a child will be the most rewarding aspect of your life, then I can be that person. I was morbidly depressed from maybe 10 years old until I was at least 17, maybe longer. I didn't know how to talk to anyone about it, I never would have admitted any of my inner thoughts or fears to my parents, or my "friends" for that matter, because I knew I would never harm myself, and didn't want to deal with what being labelled that way would bring. In hindsight I wish I hadn't been so close minded, because my life would have been so much better with help.
All this said, I truly believe my experience as a teen, and my growth in the 30 years since has made me a stronger parent than my parents were. I make sure it is a priority to listen to my daughter. I asked her questions when I notice she is behaving like something is wrong, I share my own fears and concerns with her instead of leading a life separate from hers to "protect her". She has already been to therapy for issues starting from kindergarten, and was diagnosed and treated for anxiety disorder and ADHD. Having her gave me the strength to face my own therapy, and subsequent diagnosis and treatment for me as well.
In short, being a parent has pushed me to take the leap to face my fears for my kid. It's something I never could have done for myself before, but even now I see the importance of it. I hope to raise her to see how important that is for her, to hopefully save her some of the pain I've lived. But if not, I can be there for her through that so she doesn't have to face it alone.
I was actually thinking about this for unrelated reasons yesterday. I think very few people wish they were never born. I think very few people are able to think about something that big—erasing their entire existence from having ever happened would change so much that I don't think it's something people are able to truly contemplate.
That almost seems like an argument that we should have as many kids as physically possible. Like, imagine that there's an unlimited repository of souls waiting to be born and you're #1 in line to never get born because life goes extinct or whatever. You'd probably be annoyed that you never got your shot.
Like, it's a silly, stupid argument...but it still feels somewhat irrefutable? Like you can strongly disagree with it (and I'm pretty sure I do), and there are very strong arguments to the contrary that are quite easy to make, but like I guess it's philosophical enough that there isn't technically a right or wrong answer.
But, as someone with no kids, I'm surely not going to start creating as many babies as I can. Or even any babies, at least not in the immediate future (I hope).
"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?"
-Quote from a bigoted evolutionary biologist who has, at times, said decent things.
I like your view better than I like my view. Seems happier.
Social media is promotting so hard this idea of "not having kids is sooo altruistic", " this world is dying".
When you explore it a little bit, it is always a rationalisation for not tolerating any hit to personal comfort or change. Your kids would live better than most kings even if civilisation took a dip, (and it probably won't).
The curent world has challenges ahead, but overall I'd definitely rather stay in this period than any from the past. The medical advances alone! Fewer war, fewer famine, more education, more rights, better entertainment, more science.
We'll need motivation to tackle our world's problems. I don't think not having kids and lamenting the state of the world is the best way to nurture that motivation.
Maybe don't view this from the perspective of your child inheriting a broken world, view your well brought up child as a gift to help do his part fixing the world.
I appreciate the insight. I agree that the nihilism on social media has gotten out of hand. It's not just that it's there, it's that it's celebrated and reinforced. And that's a one way road to being a miserable sonuvabitch.
This is valid. I must ask, though: have you ever felt bitter about inheriting the world we're presently in?
I ask because it's something I've struggled with a lot.
Every parent throughout all of history has thought the same thought. My parents thought it due to AIDS, the drug epidemic and the rising crime that came along with it, along with the looming threat of nuclear war. Their parents thought it during the height of the cold war and what seemed like communists infiltrating every aspect of the government, their parents thought it due to the total collapse of the world's monetary systems and so on.
Every generation has extreme challenges and they find a way to cope with it. Life overall gets better or worse, but it hasn't yet ended. Human society will adapt and people will manage to find bits of joy no matter what the world looks like.
Cann't say I've struggle with this beyond the occasional thought. Rehashing this negative thought over and over 24/7 must be the depression. Overall, I much prefer existing than not, so I double it & give it to the next person.
For me personally: I like kids. I get along with them very well (seriously, kids are naturally drawn to me), and really enjoyed babysitting for our former neighbors.
I also know I lack the patience and energy to deal with small children constantly. I especially have no clue what to do with babies and toddlers. And even when they're older, being around them for a few hours while babysitting can drain me. I'd go home after babysitting and think "yay, I'm free and can do whatever I want now". (Honestly, I always knew I didn't want babies and as a kid I always said I planned to adopt older kids. And now I'm comfortable without kids, and a bit too selfish to sacrifice that comfort and free time.)
Besides that, one more factor to consider is that children are a bit of a roulette. You have no idea what sort of child you'll have. The vast majority of them are great, but if a child is born with severe special needs... Well, it radically changes your life. The chances are low, but they exist so you need to take that possibility into consideration too.
I bring that up mainly because you mentioned your own mental health struggles as a reason against adoption. That's a valid concern, and you can't really guarantee children born to you won't develop disorders.
This comment probably isn't that helpful overall. But I do hope it might give you some stuff to think about.
Oof. This is not going to be a lighthearted happy topic, at least regarding my involvement.
DISCLAIMER: I have a not-very-hopeful outlook on things and have at least mild depression. I am not an impartial view here.
While some ills are more localized / nation specific, the majority of my reasoning is climate change. The effects from this will be massive, with harm piling atop harm, hardship, and suffering. And while there's tons of stuff we could and should be doing to not make it worse, we are not avoiding the consequences of the effects already baked into the system. That bill is due. We are beginning to feel the cost of paying it.
There are other factors: the global rise of authoritarianism, the ongoing collapse of the American Empire, the gradual approach of the next world war, the global dependence on oil as economic lifeblood (which we have had so many years to work on... and haven't much) and the consequences of that energy getting (partially) cut off... and so many other factors.
But you know what? ALL of those 'other factors' list are in the 'we can technically do something to fix this' category. But not the climate bill. We can only stop making it worse and try to endure better as we absorb the incoming blows. The ripple effects from climate change alone will... too much.
I will not have children. My father, a professor of history and humanities, has told me he thinks that is the right decision. With a heavy heart, it is my advice. And feel sorry for giving it.
Wow this is a depressing topic for me.
To not have kids due to whichever barely-controllable world events could or could not happen always seemed unnecessarily defeatist and short-sighted to me. How many people didn't have kids in the Cold War because they were afraid they'd see nuclear warfare? Why can't your kid be the one to help solve it? Sorry if this is a little confrontational, but I think as we're faced with possible AI or climate or nuclear or whatever obliteration, that wouldn't suddenly negate my happiness from the love my parents gave me, or my friends, or my partner and kids. I'd much rather take advantage of my ability and capacity to pass that love along rather than hit the end of my life afraid of nothing - or, should I face one of those fates, regretting that I hadn't spent it creating joy out of the entropy rather than fear.
The difference there between climate change and the nuclear doomsday scenario is that one was always a maybe, whilst the other is a foregone conclusion. It's a cumulative effect problem wherein a number of effects are already locked in. We've not even hit peak emissions yet, somewhat unbelievably. We're still accelerating!
The only remaining maybes are whether we can get a handle on this thing and prevent the various non-linearities (for example the oceans becoming a carbon source instead of sink). Profound suffering has already been locked in by human action/inaction. The extent is now the question.
We can pull greenhouse gasses out of the environment. Most people just agree that's not a great idea because it just encourages us to pollute more (among many other technical reasons). But emissions are, theoretically, reversible.
That's true for sure. My understanding is that besides your point about intent, removing carbon from the air at scale is very resource intensive - more taxing than just reducing emissions, which we're already failing at. If it were really feasible, it would already be happening no?
Ending global hunger is feasible but we haven't done that because fuck people who I can't see.
Well that's fair. But if we have a track record of being unable to muster the political will to do something, then I think it's fair to suggest that it isn't a solution we can rely on?
Are we? AFAIK we are not doing it at the rate we hoped for, but many countries are still successfully reducing them.
We're failing versus the targets agreed in, say, Paris. I'd say blowing through targets to stay below 1.5 and almost certainly now 2degrees - which were set owing to the catastrophic consequences that such heating entails - could be regarded as failing.
Acceleration is slowing, but we set a reduction goal, and globally we failed to meet it, so I would summarise that as failure.
We're just beginning to see the early effects from that and they are not good. People have already suffered and died for this failure, and this is a cumulative problem with significant drag in terms of cause and effect, so things are going to get worse. And projections assuming current trends (IE we're not even just adding to greenhouse gasses at the already staggering rate, but rather still adding year-on-year more greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere every year, accelerating the speed of heating) suggest a lot worse.
I should say, I'm not hopeless.
As you can no doubt tell, I'm an ardent green party member and I believe there's a small chance we can thread this needle and stay below the most catastrophic heating. This assumes that politically the climate crisis starts being addressed seriously and soon. The reason I care to engage with this at all is that I think it's soluble.
But it will require a probably unprecedented effort, on a global scale. And things will get worse before they get better even if the whole planet buys in. We've just left it all a bit late.
We've already missed the most catastrophic projections, though. We're on track for 2-2.2 degrees of warming instead of 4.5.
I'm not sure the article linked supports the 2-2.2 degrees part of that hypothesis. I've quoted the relevant parts of the article (emphasis mine):
And then further on:
I stand corrected, but does that really change my core point? From the very section you quoted is
I suppose it depends on what one considers to be a reasonable risk to take vis-á-vis temperature limits. 2 degrees sounds bad to me, and already far too destructive to happily countenance. But 3 is - in these terms - significantly more dangerous. Not least because of the greater chance of going through a tipping point, which then can have vastly greater negative knock-on effects.
So I think it does make a difference, in the sense that if we believe that we're on the trajectory to 2, some people might think we're doing enough. If we're on track for 3, those same people might have a greater sense of urgency.
Several nature-based carbon removal techniques are feasible in a general sense (e.g. biochar, ocean alkalinity enhancement, rock weathering), but (a) they need more R&D to scale and (b) they can't scale enough to excuse us from having to massively cut emissions.
The reality is that we're at a point where decarbonizing alone isn't enough and we have to be honest with ourselves and shift to an all of the above approach. Decarbonizing and carbon removal and adaptation and research into temporary global cooling methods to avoid tipping points.
I often feel frustrated that, on top of the right wing climate deniers, we still have a (slowly shrinking) contingent of well-meaning environmentalists who won't acknowledge we need to shift to 'all of the above.' Yeah it sucks that we're here but we can't do the perfect as the enemy of the good thing again. Perspectives are slowly shifting ... hopefully that shift happens fast enough.
Plus the internet has its fair share of misanthropes who would literally rather let the world burn than shore up the stability of human society.
I appreciate you sharing, and as someone who shares a similar outlook (and depression) I have some scattered thoughts.
The frank reality is that the consequences of climate change will not hit everywhere evenly, and, well, I'd be able to hand a child access to some of the places most habitable. I don't know if that's 'enough,' of course - that dovetails into my last thought below.
This is a whoooooole other conversation, but while a lot of consequences are baked in, we could potentially stall or avoid many others with geoengineering (an open letter from scientists, an article about it).
(I generally believe that emissions will plateau and decrease this century due to improving green technology + shrinking populations, but it obviously isn't happening nearly quick enough).
I do feel some pull to do my part to raise the next generation - whether biological or adopted - to be better stewards of the environment and one another. I worry that only the climate deniers and religious wingnuts are having kids, and that I'm perpetuating our burgeoning idiocracy.
But underneath all of this is a fundamental philosophical question: what makes life worth living? Can someone be faced with circumstances worse than ours and still find their life worthwhile and fulfilling? After all, people have faced far worse circumstances and yet found meaning and purpose. Viktor Frankl wrote a whole book about it. I don't have an answer to these questions ... but I do see how they're really the 'main' issue that the above thoughts are all dancing around.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I know it isn't easy. Depression sucks.
I don't think this is possible to predict, because it's different for everyone.
Warning, this is a serious downer.
I know someone who had multiples, all girls. One of them ended up with such depression issues that she was in and out of inpatient care, then finally managed to kill herself in her late teens. The others were fairly well adjusted and happy up until then. They all grew up together in the same house, went to the same schools, had some overlap in friends, but not all.
Parenting matters, but it isn't everything. Environment matters, but it isn't everything. Some people can find a way to be happy, some just can't.
I mean, obviously the answer is "yes, they can," because that was existence for most of human history.
As someone with the ability to choose whether to have kids (e.g. with access to reliable birth control), you're already part of a global elite. At least half the planet lives in circumstances worse than yours. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that none of those people live fulfilling lives.
I think you have a bit of a perspective problem, honestly.
For what it's worth I completely agree with you. Such is the absurdity of the endlessly ruminating mind.
I am going to try to keep this brief. Having a child is not for yourself or anything other. Having a child is the decision to introduce a new personality to the world. It is for them and should be treated as such. Few approach the undertaking as non selfish and with clarity for what it is. If that becomes you and your partner's decision, I ask that you treat it with the fundamental care it should entail. You are not just having a child. You are inviting a full human into the world and you will be interacting with a full ass adult for more of their life than the time it takes for you to bring them up as a child.
I hear that. The question is, though, how does one properly consider the possibility that harm or suffering will befall that full human from factors outside of ones control?
I have two kids.
Yesterday, one of them was having a complete meltdown about putting on any kind of footwear to go to school. After 25 minutes of this, I went from being completely calm and patient to lifting them up and yelling at them and telling them to "Get in the fucking car, we're going to school." It put a damper on my day and made me feel like shit for pretty much the rest of the day.
This morning: I'm still in bed right now, but they've gone downstairs and are happily playing. I can hear them and they figured out how to somehow get into (it's locked and unplugged on the inside) the arcade cabinet I built and start playing it. Normally, it's deliberately turned off, because it often causes problems and a lot of frustration and yelling (Retro Games, eh?), but I also couldn't be more proud of the two of them.
They had a problem, they worked together and they used to ingenuity to figure out a solution. I'm not even mad.
But this is what it's like. There are highs and there are lows. You're a different person now. Not right away, but you'll find in a few years time you're very different. Yes, you will worry about the future; you'll worry about them. Especially as a person like myself with anxiety or depression. But you can't do shit about most of that. My kids have an otherwise good life and I'm doing my best, along with my wife, to raise two conscientious, independent adults and that's all you can do.
And for what it's worth, one of my kids was born in the early years of the first Trump Administration and the second was born right at the beginning of the Pandemic, April 2020. It's hard, it's taxing, it's full of worry and anxiety about the future, but those aren't the only things it is either. It's exciting, it's fun, it's rewarding, it's funny, it's silly and for me, it changed me for the better.
Edit: I also want to say, we just got a report from my oldest teacher the other day. They's excelling in class, reading and doing math very well and they're a role model to his classmates. They help their classmates with their work when they're done and otherwise lead by example. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but we need people like that if we're ever going to get through the future. I was never that person, so to see it in my kid is just something else.
My partner and I are expecting any day now. I hold the more pessimistic view on the world and kind of wanted to continue to enjoy our lives the way they were, I had this philosophical view of not wanting to bring another conscious entity into this world, until we reached our decision point like you did. She has always been vocal about wanting kids and my rationale was that I just didn’t feel financially secure enough to fully commit to it yet. Though as everyone says, you never feel ready. Eventually I came around to the idea after rationalizing that I’d rather have a child than regret not having one. One of my best friends has two daughters and it’s so precious. I like the idea of reliving all the cool things that we do get to experience as modern humans through this entity you and this person you love mixed DNA with in this primordial process. It’s pretty wild how quickly I came around once we started trying and got the positive test, I began ‘nesting’ almost immediately and working on all the renovations my house needed to accommodate her. We are ecstatic too, now that everything is ready and waiting for her to arrive. I coincidentally just wrote about being on the precipice of fatherhood on my blog if you’re interested. But don’t wanna come off as self promoting. It’s mostly about all my home improvement work and I haven’t added pictures yet lol.
I will say that I found the health stuff to be by far the most anxiety inducing part. My wife can be a bit of a hypochondriac (as am I) so we tend to get worried about every little creak or twinge of pain, but we really like the OB we’re working with so absolutely make sure everything is A-OK health wise and that you have a doctor you like.
Edit: I’ve also been blown away by all the gifts and support from our friends and family. A support network is also very helpful, and helped me realize we weren’t doing it alone.
FWIW my wife and I were sort of the same way with health... And then she had post-partum preecclampsia! So all of your fears are entirely founded and everything is awful. 🙃 But in all seriousness, just keep monitoring your best, think about the rational next steps of what you see, and pester the OB team as much as you need to for a grip on what's happening. It's what is in your control.
Also, advocate advocate advocate. I didn't do enough arguing with the nurse staff her first time around. Did the second time because she was like I AM PRETTY I AM READY TO GO NOW and got the staff to actually check her dilation - our second kid came out in like 10 minutes after that. The staff is gonna have their own biases on what to do, keep pushing for what your wife intends for her delivery to be like.
It's scary. Y'all will figure it out.
The health anxieties are so real. One certainly hears many horror stories about pregnancy and child birth, and the idea of possibly losing my partner - no matter how remote - is just harrowing. As I told her: "I'd rather have you and no child then a child and no you."
Of course that's anxiety and fear brain talking. Life necessitates risk, and if I had never risked anything I wouldn't be happily married to begin with.
Congrats on the soon-to-be arrival of your child! I hope the rest of the process goes smoothly and both wife and child are healthy on the other end.
Can I ask what your blog is?
You are not alone. I'll share some resources I've found useful or informative.
Hyperfixed podcast: Kristin Has Doubts
NPR's Life Kit: "There's never a 'right' time for a baby — but these questions can help you decide"
Listened to interview with Ann Davidman in the past that was pretty illuminating just from the ad-hoc discussion
I'd also encourage you to consider alternatives that are often not discussed. Some ones that come to mind are foster care, volunteering as a CASA, Big Brothers Big Sisters, "reading buddy" programs to help boost literacy, or simply seeking out a closer relationship with people you know who have kids. It really does take a village, so choosing not to have your own doesn't have to be a closed door for regular interactions with kids.
Yeah, been there. And I don't wanna scare you more, but now that I have a child I worry about way more things than before. But I guess that's part of being human? I go back and forth between feeling optimistic and pessimistic, maybe I should finally read Factfulness.
I don't think everyone should have kids and I hate when people promote it like a cult. We're certainly privileged (good salaries, stable life, safe country, supportive friends as we live far from family). It's a personal decision and you should really want one, as it's gonna be though.
What I can tell you is, there's not a second I regret my decision and I'm more sure every day that was the best decision I ever made. Nothing in the World will ever make me happier! And I don't think being afraid of the state of the World is a good reason not to have one. It's a valid thing to be worried about, for sure. But my parents have been through multiple wars, dictatorship, etc, and here I am, living a great life.
All I can do is try to be the best father for her, a good person (respect others, vote well) and hope for the best.
Edit: TL;DR; IMHO, not wanting kids is a good reason not to, being worried is probably not.
Not going to comment on having or not having kids, but regarding the adoption:
When I was little, my aunt and uncle came home with a boy. He was... 3 or 4 or so? I was 5ish
I only really understood he was adopted later, mostly it meant we had someone else to play with and argue with and just be children with.
This was in the early 90s, so it will be a bit different now, but you mentioned a lot of children in the family - I think similar age playmates and an extended (accepting) family would make a lot of the typical adoption challenges much easier to overcome.
I told my SO I'd be down for children if either 1) he wanted to birth them (ala Junior) or 2) we adopted.
Apparently he didn't want them that much. And I would have loved nurturing a kid that already existed, just I wasn't going to make it myself.
My daughter is about 13.5 months old now and sleeping on top of me as I write this. I was a fencesitter over two years and I wasn't too certain on having kids when Roe vs Wade was overturned.
What made me wanting to try was a post on reddit of someone undergoing menopause and regret in not trying to have kids. That struck a chord with me. We are trying to think logically of a illogical choice. And no matter what we choose, we would always rationalize our decision one way or another. I realized then, I would have liked to at least try.
And so, I made the decision of trying on my own terms. I'm in my thirties, and if I did have kids, I would liked to have two and I do not want to be pregnant in my forties. And I refuse to do IUI and IVF. I had a few friends who had fertility issues, and had to either jump hurdles to get pregnant or accept their infertility issues. I did not want to spend so much money on something I'm torn about. My answer will be answered when I try. If it doesnt happen by 34, then I know I'm not meant to have kids. And if it happens, then I know.
At one point, my husband and I realize we are trying to answer an illogical question with logic. Thinking that way will only walk around us in circles.
My only real advice is make sure you have a realiable village or be able to afford a village. I'm very thankful that I have a village and we can afford the extra help. My family really helped out and still do. I am incredibly appreciative of their support. It takes a village to raise a child.
I still worry about the environment and state of the world. I work for environmental NGO, so I know first hand how climate change is affecting our region. But now, I feel I have more reason to do what I do for work and I can emphasize more so to others as a parent. I shifted my focus on in building resilient communities here locally in hope to weather out some of the storms.
IMO the world has never been a great place to have children. Having kids shouldn't be looked at from an entirely logical lens, IMO. At the very least, I don't think its right to view the current state of the world as any different from the past.
My wife and I dithered about this too, and were in our mid 30's when we decided to try. The result is our daughter, who is now 11. She is amazing, and amazes me every day, even now when the trajectory of development is much slower than the younger years. I would not trade her for anything, and being a dad is by far my favorite role. I spent a year as a stay at home dad, and that was my favorite year.
Some other caveats/context: we are financially very stable which puts one major worry far down our list. We don't have much in the way of local family support, which is very hard. My advice there is make friends / find a group with kids the same age. Even if you have family, it's good to have a community as well.
Here I will echo and affirm @worldasis 's comment. Our job as parents should be to make them into a whole, functioning, independent person. My wife's mother is a textbook narcissist who centers every interaction in herself and her feelings. Watching the lasting impact this has had on my wife has been hard. Unwrapping that is probably a whole post unto itself. Or maybe a dissertation.
Seeing the child as their own person is why I like the Montessori philosophy so much. Everything they do is centered in working with the child's developmental phases to help them grow. My daughter started Montessori preschool at 3, and is now in 6th grade. She will likely finish out the 8th grade program before transitioning to traditional high school. I think this has been one of our best parenting decisions, and learning from the teachers and implementing some of the practices at home has made us better parents. In particular, they have a clear, developmentally validated understanding of what a child's capabilities can be at different ages. Because of the mixed age classroom and the individualized curriculum design, each child learns the things when they, individually are actually ready. Not because it's week 17 and the syllabus says everyone is learning X today.
I would highly recommend the preschool through kindergarten ("Children's house") program. Once you're in it and have seen it work, you can make your own call about the later phases.
Practically speaking, many of the day to day activities of a child-centered approach are the same - behavior, hygiene, nutrition, socialization. But the underlying why is different. There is no manual for parenting, but asking "does this help her become a functioning adult" is a great litmus test for evaluating my own underlying motives. It helps to sift out the things that merely make parenting more convenient for us or others around us.
If you do the math, you will see that she was born in the heady days of 2015, before many of the existential crises you would now face were front and center. I can't imagine a world without my daughter, but I cannot also say with confidence we would have made the same choice if choosing today. The world seems so much darker.
However, she is growing up in that darker world and doing fine. We survived COVID -- she was five, and went to school masked for two years. Now she's involve in Montessori Model UN, which has been a great framework for learning bout the problems in the world but also believing that something can be done about them.
I feel pretty overwhelmed and helpless about the larger world, so I concentrate on small local changes where I can have an impact, and on helping my daughter be prepared for being a person in that world. I don't think I will change the world, that ship has probably sailed. But she still might, and if she doesn't, I'm confident that there will be many people whose world is better because her light.
Suffering is not a foregone conclusion. If you love children and the idea of having one is a thought of joy rather than a burden, then the state of the world is frankly not a decent enough reason not to have one.
Here's my perspective, as I have a young child and my partner and I would like another: We can see that things might go wrong, and that instability, scarcity, conflict and upheaval are very likely coming our way. We are in the process of building our resiliency to those things. We moved to a place that will be more resilient to climate related disasters, close to a dependable water source and well above sea level. We are planting fruit trees and learning to garden and to forage. We are learning the names of our neighbors and building up a local community. We have solar and are electrifying our home. We are thinking ahead to what sort of things may become harder to come by, and making strategic purchases to make those things unnecessary or redundant. We learning the skills of our ancestors now before it's a necessity.
I will never be able to protect my child from suffering, but I can do what any parent should, and try to prepare them for an uncertain future.
Now, if you want to talk about how having a kid is a massive upheaval in your life, changes everything about your routine and costs you energy, sleep and time, that's another thing! I don't have any regrets though.
You've already gotten a lot of advice, but I'll still add my own experience to give another data point.
We have two kids now, 3 and 2mos, and the only thing I regret is not having them sooner, as others have already stated, having kids is a unique joy that's incredibly rewarding every single day, I won't rehash.
Something I want to say is that having kids isn't just for you, but it's so much for your family/community that people don't realize. I can see how much it impacts my own parents, how much better it makes their life. My mom's had a tough time the last few years with a lot of her siblings dying, and honestly, I had this thought at the last funeral that if nobody has kids, you only ever have deaths, you're only ever at funerals and it's depressing as fuck. Not to mention losing a partner, if you don't have kids, sure you have family but they have their own lives, so that sense of loneliness is just astronomical. With kids you still have your partner with you, in a way. I know it doesn't have to be biological, but it's that you raised someone with them. We had our daughter first in our friend group and having her around quickly encouraged my other friends to get off the fence and have kids themselves, and I'm automatically closer to them because we have this shared experience, and our kids will see each other, likely their whole lives. The efforts I spent cultivating friends and community that share my values get reinforced in our kids, that's the most hopeful I can be about the world.
I think I'm rambling a bit, let me clarify:kids are also a lot of work, and you will be tired, and stressed, but! People will be accommodating, you will experience so much goodwill just from being a parent because well, other parents have been there, they see it, they've lived it. At work if you have to pick up a kiddo from daycare, or take them to an appt, everybody understands. Everyone gets it, and that feels both relieving and validating.
So yeah, I think it's fine to be optimistic, and even though life may be harder for my kids than it was for me, and my parents had an easier time than I did, at no point did I think I shouldn't have been born or that I'd wished they didn't have me. Maybe the climate or political instability or whatever else isn't fixable now, but it'll be fixable eventually, and we'll need humans who care to do that, so I try to do my small part, and honestly I get rewarded for it far more than I'm inconvenienced
As a postscript, I'm also aware of how absurd it is to ruminate heavily on, essentially, whether or not I want to 'inflict' being born on my potential child when they'd be born into objectively better circumstances than 90% of people on Earth - and than most of the human beings who've ever existed!
Most of those folks didn't give it a second thought but here I am wondering if my kids' life would be worth living or if they'll one day resent me for having them. Ahh, the perils of an endlessly ruminating mind.
So, I don't want kids - I don't like them very much and I absolutely do not want to make any sacrifices to have them (especially since I'd be the one giving birth). That's my main 'reason', but there's also like you said state of the world etc. etc.
But
I do hold the opinion that those who have at least thought about the above, who are aware that even with all the good their kids will be born into, they'll also have to make a sincere and endless effort of keeping their kids on the right path and shielding them from the worst of the world without leaving them to be blindsided later in life... Those people usually make the best parents.
So, I'm not going to say have them or don't, because I don't know you and your circumstances apart from this post. But I do think that if THIS is the part that's holding you back, and not, like me, the fact that I don't like kids and would resent ever having them, then at least you'll be ten steps ahead of a lot of other parents out there, and that's going to make you a better parent and make your child (if you have them) a happier, more compassionate human being.
I have a lot of opinions (that I won't name) about people who bring children into the world 'just because' or 'that's just what you do'. But there's also people that are just... meant to eventually be parents? That have an inherent love for kids and get so much joy out of raising them - and I find it very difficult to fault those people for having them, even with the world going down around us. We need some hope too, ya know?
Counterpoint to 'not liking kids very much'.
I did not like kids at all, and disliked babies even more.
Come the day, and we had kids of our own... and I loved those babies more than you would believe possible (and I still do, although they are adults now).
However I still don't like other people's kids much. :-)
I think a point people overlook is that your kids will be a blend of yourself and your significant other, which makes them vastly more loveable than you might expect when looking at kids in general.
An annoying relative of mine used to say 'Babies bring their own love' - and I did not really understand what that meant until I had my own, whereupon it became ridiculously self-evident that she was right.
While I am very happy for you, and I'm sure you love your children very much - I do want to ask: Wasn't that a bit of a wild gamble to bank on you liking your own kids if you do not like any other children at all?
I don't mean to be accusatory - this is the actual consideration I take into account when thinking about myself as a mother.
I dislike pretty much 95% of any time spent around children under the age of 12. I dislike babies, I do not find them cute in the slightest, there are 0 maternal feelings that bubble up when I look at one.
I'm happy it worked out for you, but personally I am not comfortable risking that I bring a human being into the world whose mother resents and dislikes them.
TBH, you do sound pretty accusatory. But that's okay, it's a tricky issue to tackle. :-)
It's very hard to express something of such nuance in a few lines on a screen, from either your perspective or mine.
To me it wasn't any kind of a gamble at all.
I can understand why it might appear so to you, but that's not even close to my subjective experience.
I felt as you do about babies and children - and I mostly still do.
I was never anti-child or adamant about not having children, I just didn't like most of them very much.
My position wasn't a philosophy so much as an observation of a fact, so there wasn't much in the way of paradigm shifting or anything that needed to happen when I became aware that I wanted to get pregnant, some ten years into our relationship. That was a fact, too.
We talked it over - mostly to do with logistics rather than existential issues - and I duly got pregnant.
Now this was the surprising bit - I loved being pregnant, absolutely loved it. I hadn't expected that.
A relative rather sourly noted, "You bonded with your babies before they were even born."
I think you need a little faith that if you love your partner and can see the good in yourself, it follows that a child born of the two of you will fit into your relationship, into the little world you two create, pretty naturally. We are built to breed; the human race has been ridiculously successful at it, even though it takes a lot of work and many years of sustained effort.
You aren't going to have one of those sticky noisy random kids over there; you are going to have your own child, literally the product of your own flesh and blood. That's a very different thing.
At the very least, do not discount the incredible power of hormones to bond humans.
And at a less animalistic level, there is a great joy in beginning your own little clan.
Having a family is one of the greatest joys that I have experienced.
That said, it is not for everyone, and if you do not feel comfortable taking that risk, then don't.
I wouldn't wish an unwilling mother on any child, either.
Many, many people are opting not to have kids these days (check out the startling demographic curves of almost any country) and I think that says something profound about the era we are living in.
Your hesitancy may well not be an entirely individual thing, but a reflection of something much greater and frankly more disturbing.
There's the inverse too: do you want to inflict not being born on them? There's no person to inflict it on, technically, but I don't want my parents to have decided for me to never exist, even if I don't always love myself or my life.
I was a life long No person. Ultimately I changed my mind neither due to optimism nor good logic: but that's a boring and mystical story.
I am exceedingly happy with my choice. Not because my reasons were correct or I was some kind of genius to have figured out what's right for me. But because of the fact that my child is a much happier, much smarter, kinder than I ever was as a child or a young person. The world and myself still do not give me much hope, but, having come to know this new person, they themselves are the reason for Yes and the reason for hope that the world can be fixed.
You mentioned you guys have the resources. Go for it. You could still come to regret it and think it all sucks and continue to worry about the world, but your child is their own Human Person who will make great decisions and do great things. If you can provide for a childhood relatively free of war, famine, illegal and addictive drugs, prolonged abuse etc, chances are exceedingly good that your cooperation will result in the birth of a Great Person. And that's enough of a reason, I think
What a zinger of a topic!
I have a 2.5 year old child and she's the last one in our family. My partner asked that we keep it to one for all of the aforementioned reasons described here - that being climate direction, the AI threat, global instability etc. I feel that, and despite wanting a second and hedging my bets, the pragmatic choice made sense.
That said, having children is not only the ultimate act of hope, but an incredible renewal for you as an adult in how you choose to see the world.
Additionally, people have gone through arguably harder times than we'll see in the next 70 years and they just kept having kids. Children are resilient and the product of their environments.
If you and your partner choose tohave a child, know that the impact of the environment you create will have magnitudes more influence over their lives than global externalities -- however dire.
My partner and I don't plan on having kids. We still have time to change course, but as someone who's very 'routine-oriented,' I consider my window for kids to be passing me now as I think I'd be too emotionally set-in-stone to try at an older age (but TBD). One of his parents got sick so I think also, to some degree, our fate was never to have kids at this age. That said: Have kids!
The reason is that from your post, I think you come from a basis of wanting kids, yet your brain is rationalizing yourself out. What I realized from talking to people and reading books like 'The Baby Decision' is that we are animals. Wanting, truly wanting to have kids is incredibly natural and probably beyond our logical mind. (I believe much of what we do is instinctual, and our brain simply rationalises it, sometimes incorrectly or in a futile effort.) For me and my partner, I think while we like kids (him more so), I don't think we're wired to 'want' to have kids. What the book changed for me was openness to the possibility of changing my mind. Childfree as a sort of militant assessment of what is ethical (for the kids, for the planet, whatever) is laudable, but it does not serve me, 99% of the impact of my decision. What purpose does it give me to lock myself into a path instead of seeing how I feel? Additionally, also from reading the book: the most important thing you can do is be an active participant in your life. If you want kids, don't settle for waiting for an accident, for example. We're more likely to be happy if we choose our path actively rather than waiting for it to happen. (I think this is part of why sticking with childfree is hard; in our modern world, it's hard to 'actively' pick childfree every day. Rather, you pick a negative, you pick to not do an affirmative action...)
The only reason to defy our logical mind is if our logical mind says we 100% can't 'step up' as a parent, imo. But based on what you wrote, it sounds like you can. (And if you don't, the Baby Decision talks about 'if you do it and regret'. Anyone can end up here, including people who fence-sat less than you. I forget what the advice was, but I think it was 'therapy, and your life with the kid will change as they get older, so you can form different relationships with them.')
I don't think there's many logical reasons for the gamble of trying to make / adopt a human being whose ultimate fate and identity you may not be able to force in any desired way. For example, if you want to have a child to take care of you when you're old? This presumes they for whatever reason like you and can manage to do that. My boyfriend and I have discussed how much we'd theoretically love to raise a little weirdo space cadet math nerd (in isolation of all the other commitments of kids), but would have to emotionally prepare to love and raise some incredibly normie child (just as my parents had no clue how to interact with a weird kid). I don't think you'll find many logical reasons for the affirmative that couldn't go wrong. I think like many decisions, this is an irrational desire made safe by rational guardrails. For example, I considered moving out of my city. It likely would be only slightly cheaper for less convenience, but we'd have more space and better air. I eventually realized there was likely no rational basis for leaving if my life continued to look the way it does now; I would simply have to decide this is the life I wanted, and it would make me happier than what I have now, despite the drawbacks with which it may come.
So I have a relatively complex view of this.
One of my biggest problems when the discussion around having children comes up is that everyone tells you about how having children will make YOU feel, and very rarely if ever do they talk about the child as if it will one day be a fully grown human being with thoughts and feelings. And I feel like that's very dehumanizing towards the child since it doesn't factor in the well-being or the future of the child.
Even in this thread, just about everyone talking about having kids is only talking about how it makes THEM feel, and talking about the children as if they aren't human beings who will one day have to navigate the world themselves, but are instead things that make their parents feel fulfilled or simply vessels to carry on their lineage.
And that feels EXTREMELY dehumanizing to me. Shouldn't we want what's best for our children? Shouldn't we be factoring in our children's future into the equation?
In my opinion the only thing you should want out of having kids is for them have the best life possible. It shouldn't be about you or how you feel, you shouldn't have kids to make yourself feel complete or fulfilled, it should ultimately be about them because they're the ones who will either thrive or suffer from being born.
Frankly to me it feels to back up the notion that people generally have trouble thinking long-term about anything, be it the environment, the economy, or even having children. They have this thought of "Not my problem, I'll let someone else figure it out." Whether that's leaving future generations to deal with environmental issues or economic issues, or whathaveyou, or if it's about the future of the child. It's always this underlying sense of "That's not my problem right now," and I can't always get behind that.
I know humans are biologically wired to want to have kids, that's the entire point of evolution, but I feel like people try to justify and explain that biological urge with surface level logic and justifications that don't hold up when you think of the child as a full human being and not just something that's filling a selfish desire.
None of this to say that I don't think people should have kids, I just dislike the way that discussions around having kids are framed as I find it dehumanizing towards the child.
Careful with this. This is very similar language to pro-life camps.
I get where you are coming from, that there are bad parents who selfishly want children because it makes them feel good, like a fashion accessory or getting a toy chihuahua or check off a box that says trad wife or whatever.
But clearly, OP came in here to ask precisely because they're completely preoccupied with the well-being of their potential children. That they are worried about being selfish is the entire motivation of the thread: that their child's potential suffering is nearly the entire hurdle. If you are reading a lot of selfishness, try to keep in mind everyone is weighting in the other side of the puzzles having already accepted the child's human rights being a priority as a given. This isn't a debate in a vacuum: OP has resources, support, and have deeply considered the child's well-being over an extended period of time.
I agree with this more or less. I think it's hard to talk about what a hypothetical person wants in the same way it's hard to define rights for future generations. However, responsibility flows from a parent to the child, not the other way around. I think that should include being prudent on whether or not you are in a good position to provide a meaningful life for someone. My views on parental responsibilities can be roughly summarized by that scene in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner
However, it's not really practical to use it as some kind of normative guide on whether or not someone should have kids. Yes, you could cook up a hypothetical where the future outlook is both 100% knowable and bleak that it would be prudent to not have a child, but we don't really live in such a world. If people even think about it at all, they are going to ascribe different thresholds to certain risk trajectories and different values on the meaningfulness of even portions of a life well lived.
This is a discussion about how parents or non-parents feel:
It's my and other parents' jobs to make sure my child is ready to face the world and can achieve what happiness they're looking for. I get some of us suck at it, but that's the expected default.
This feels like such a nothing argument to me. It's the parents who decide to have a child based on their own thoughts and desires. Acting like the parents' feelings shouldn't be priority to the existence of a yet to exist child is such a reddit well actually response.
Sure, you say it's dehumanizing, the child doesn't even hypothetically exist.
Welp. First, I think calling my comment a “nothing argument” and “reddit well actually,” is uncalled for here. I'd prefer if we engaged with what I said instead of using condescension to dismiss it. That's what I'll do.
Second, you say the child does not exist yet, as though that makes the child’s eventual well-being irrelevant.
The second point confuses present existence with future consequences. The child does not exist at the time of the decision, but the decision is specifically about whether to create a person who will exist later. We routinely evaluate choices based on the foreseeable effects they will have on people in the future. This is no different.
The truth of the matter is that having children is one of the only instances where the future child cannot consent to being born, cannot choose their parents, and cannot choose the circumstances into which they are born.
And I'm not arguing for or against that philosophically, just stating that as the reality. And that DOES NOT mean having children is wrong or immoral, again that is just the philosophical reality of having children. It just means the people making that decision have a responsibility to think beyond their immediate personal feelings and consider the life of the being they are choosing to create.
Parents can want children for personal reasons. That is normal and not something I'm arguing against. My point is that personal fulfillment should not be treated as the complete moral justification for creating another human being.
My other point is that in discussions around having children, the avoidance of talking about the child as a future human is in itself dehumanizing.
I'm expecting my second child in a few weeks now, and the main reasoning was simply that I thought I could give them a good life.
Even if the world goes down the tubes in absolute terms, or relative to the previous century of prosperity, they will be loved and supported and have local and familial ties that will get them through. And society will adapt to crises in surprising ways, as it always does.
I also know for a fact that if I hadn't had kids, the "what if" would have haunted me.
I strongly believe in that "it takes a village to raise a child" saying and it seems like an often an overlooked consideration when we're making these decisions. I'm using the word "family" in the rest of this but I really mean anyone who will help support a child alongside you and your partner.
My mum really wanted grandchildren - so when my brother had a child she was over the moon and will watch the grandchild almost any time. They live near each other and she and my step-father are always very happy to help out in any way.
I also have a pair of friends with children, but they're isolated from one set of grandparents geographically and the other set by choice. My friends are much better off financially than my brother, but they seem to be more stressed and have a much harder time doing anything for themselves because they don't have anyone else to watch their child - daycare is expensive and has limited hours vs having grandma taking the kid for a night to allow you a break.
I don't have children and probably won't ever since I've had the "I wish I was never born" type depression quite intensely before and it runs in my family - my other brother actually told that to my mum once and I don't think I would deal well if a child I brought into the world also ended up with these feelings. So, if I do want children at some point I'm definitely more on the adoption side, but even with that I would want to move much closer to home for that family support. I know my mum would love my adopted child the same way she'd love my bio child, and unfortunately not everyone can say that about their family.
My mum supporting my brother with his child also only works out because they have a good relationship and the same ideas about how children should be raised. If your family would be willing to help but you have different ideas about how to handle things it's a different story - one of my friends found out their parents had been secretly taking the kids to church and now don't trust them to watch the kids anymore.
I have kids of my own, and when you talk about the mundane apocalyptic stuff you mentioned I hate to think if my kids ever struggled with that.
It sucks, women are on a clock and the decision should heavily be in their court since so much of it falls on them. I’d say if your wife is asking you then trust your gut, and if you’re leaning pro kid then give it a try. You’ll never be 100% ready and the world really is getting worse and worse, but I try to think that humans have a way of surviving and the best you can so is prepare your kids.
If you decide no, it sounds like you’re already a great uncle or role model so you can keep on with that.
I tend to assume climate change will get worse, probably leading to further worldwide instability, among other things. I also tend to think the world would be better off with fewer people. And it's quite likely that I will never have children, the older I get the more I tend to think I won't. I'd probably make a good enough father but I don't really think it's what I want, for a multitude of reasons.
All that said, I think you should probably have kids. It sounds like you have both the means and the desire to have children and raise them well and that's worth a lot. Yes, the future is difficult and deeply uncertain and who knows what will happen, but it's not over yet and I think it's okay to live as if that's the case.
Vis à vis adoption, I think I largely agree with you and sadly have come to the conclusion that while I may or may not have kids, it seems really unlikely I would ever adopt. Not that it can't work out well but I've also seen a lot of added complications and difficulties there.
I’m pessimistic about the state of the world, concerned about my fit for being a good parent, have low patience, and a bit of a temper at times. But I’m also caring, decisive, spontaneous, and generous. I was frequently unhappy as a kid, lonely, and wished I wasn’t around. But it passed, much later in life.
I’m the parent of an almost-2-year old. My wife and I were on the fence for all of our relationship when we talked about having kids. Finally we just decided to let fate take over, and whatever happened happened, and we wouldn’t do any intervention to ensure we had a kid. We got pregnant almost immediately, and the first six months after my son was born were so extraordinarily difficult due to the sleep impacts of a newborn. In the midst of a midnight feeding, I’d wonder why we chose to inflict this on ourselves, and there was more than once I lost my temper when I couldn’t get my son to stop crying.
However…after six months, it all got better. Once it stopped being exclusively “negative reinforcement” from him and he smiled at me (even if it was just a fart), there was a sense of reward to it. Feeding him’s been a struggle due to throwing food, but overall, I have no regrets even though it’s difficult. I say that even now that I’m a full time parent due to losing my job, which is utterly exhausting, but it’s okay. I’d be sad not to have him in my life, and I know one day I’ll miss these moments, even if they sometimes suck. I hope he’ll remember them fondly too (once he starts making memories).
If you think you’ll be a good parent, and you have the emotional capacity for it, I won’t say do it or don’t do it because someone else shouldn’t make that huge decision for you. But maybe just allow nature to take its course if you’re not opposed to having a kid (after some forethought).
I've got a similarly pessimistic view of the future, and often have had many of these thoughts as well.
But for me, it boiled down to 1 simple question: would I have rather never been born? The answer is definitely no. If I enjoy life, my son (and his future siblings, hopefully) can enjoy it and I shouldn't feel guilty about giving them that opportunity.
The nice thing about having just one kid is you get to feel better about the environment. The downside is the kid has no siblings, which will make it harder when you are older.
You inspired me to ask my teen if he is happy that he was born. He said sometimes yes, sometimes no, on the balance, yes.
Which is surprisingly insightful. You can never tell what is good and what is bad. Even decades later.
Good luck with your choices.
I strongly agree with this. While things may seem gloomy now, things can - and do- change in unexpected ways and none of us are well-placed to know what will happen during our own lifetimes, let alone our kids lives.
I vote for having a child for three reasons. 1) It is deeply rewarding and having the sweetest, cutest, smartest person to come home to everyday is the best thing in the world. Who they are at such a young age is amazing and I cannot wait to see them grow. 2) As I aged I began to care about genealogy, as all my work really is tracking historical people anyways, this became deeply personal. I would be very sad if my lineage died with me. 3) The world has always had its problems both interpersonal and global. I can never understand anti-natalism.
Having a child is hard without a proper support system. I wanted two prior to having one, now I'm not sure I could handle 0-3 months again.
If you are unsure about having children, you should not have children.
Eh, I do not agree. There is a gigant distance between "unsure" and "hate the idea with passion".
I was definitely very much unsure dozen years ago, but now I have two kids. They are pain in the ass most of the times (there some complications that I do not want to discuss), but they are precious to me and they are my family.
We do not know what happens in the future.
We can't know what happens in the future, and this is both horrible and both wonderful.
Upd: it's definitely giant responsibility, but... All our life is giant responsibility.
Woah, I strongly disagree!
Your rule of thumb would have noone have any kids.
It's a massive decision and most sane people understandably have to carefully think about it.
Yeah, I feel like many of the worst parents are the ones who were too sure they wanted kids. They didn't want to bring a life into the world; they wanted to have a kid. Big difference.
I know plenty of people who are sure of having children.
Whether or not they should is a completely different topic.