35 votes

New groups and site mechanics - 2021 edition

The last group request thread was last year. With all the meta-chat lately it might be time for a new one, and maybe expand a bit more in terms of site organization in general.

I mainly want to take this opportunity to make the recent meta feedback a bit more actionable: Which current problems can be solved via site mechanics? Will leave some thoughts in the comments.

100 comments

  1. [17]
    Adys
    Link
    Groups I would like to see the ~health group have two new subdivisions: ~health.mental_health and ~health.fitness. I want to resurface ~girltalk and ~guytalk, a suggestion from @NaraVara I really...
    • Exemplary

    Groups

    General thought about groups: @Deimos, I would love to see you experiment a bit more. I believe there is a bit of a "build it and they will come" effect to groups, where having a group exist encourages contributions to it. Maybe we can do monthly experiments, if there's no uptake on a group, fold it back into a tag? Incidentally, this does have its own effect in pushing contributions and I think it's potentially a healthy mechanism to grow the site and find people who are interested in particular subjects.

    Site mechanics

    • We had some good feedback in an earlier thread from a new user who felt put off by their title getting edited without warning. @Gaywallet made an excellent suggestion that doing so could trigger an automated DM the first time, that explains it was done and a couple of common reasons why this might be. Since Tildes is a place where title editing is often done, I believe this is a good idea.
    • To build on the above, I would possibly like to see an (optional) "reason" when a moderator edits a thread. Think of it like the "edit summary" field in wikipedia. A commit message.
    • I would more generally like to see reasons in all moderator actions, especially locking/deleting threads & posts, as well as banning users. This is more for the sake of transparency, but also as personal feedback.

    The Exemplary tag

    I really like the "exemplary" mechanic, but at this point I feel it's fair to say it is not working as intended. Early on when I joined I did notice some people were pushing to write high quality comments, and using the "exemplary" label was a nice way of encouraging this. Now, I see it used a bit too much as a super-upvote, and I see people sometimes complaining or be upset that a comment they disagree with was exemplaried; as if to "twist the knife". This isn't healthy and I would like to see the mechanic reworked, not removed.

    There are two changes I believe will help:

    1. The ability to make the label non-anonymous to the receiver.
    2. The ability to make the message public (and possibly, the username as well in such cases)

    The goal is to encourage people to use exemplary as a positive reaction, but still keep it for exceptionally good posts. The timer is also a variable that can be played with if it's used too much / not enough.

    Finally, if these changes to exemplary work well, I would also like to see it made available on posts themselves.

    30 votes
    1. monarda
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I'd like to reiterate the same thing I said in the 2019 thread. I am not a fan of the naming ~girltalk. ~women would be better imo. Edited out snark.

      I want to resurface ~girltalk and ~guytalk, a suggestion from @NaraVara I really appreciated in the 2019 thread.

      I'd like to reiterate the same thing I said in the 2019 thread. I am not a fan of the naming ~girltalk. ~women would be better imo.

      Edited out snark.

      24 votes
    2. [2]
      Atvelonis
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I've found that a certain number of my comments tagged as "exemplary" are the ones I'd posted and immediately regretted. Not that I necessarily regretted what I wrote, but because I knew that...

      I've found that a certain number of my comments tagged as "exemplary" are the ones I'd posted and immediately regretted. Not that I necessarily regretted what I wrote, but because I knew that someone was going to highlight it as "exemplary" (whether it was or not) because they wanted to take attention away from the opposing perspective, and decided that my frequently academic language provided some legitimacy to their doing so. The negativity implied in such an interaction meshes poorly with the way I try to enter discussions, which is with the intent to express gratefulness, share experiences, and learn from others. My comment might not be objectionable in and of itself, but the exemplary tag adds an edge that I am unable to control and which can harm the tone I intend to set with it.

      It's obviously important to highlight perspectives that empower those lacking a strong voice, but the tag is not always being used to reward good behavior, rather as a signal of the "correct opinion." Because anyone can highlight any comment, Tildes' intense homogeneity occasionally contributes to imbalanced uses of the tag, with those most interested in winning what they perceive as an argument being the most inclined to overuse it. (The implication being that minority voices are pushed out.) I don't like the performative aspect of the tag and find that it contributes to a narcissistic telos among users here. I very much enjoy the kind words I receive from these tags, and I like giving them out—I think that private feedback is extremely valuable—but in its current state, I don't think it should have any sort of public signifier.

      If the exemplary tag is to retain that functionality, public tags ought to be accompanied by public usernames (the message itself doesn't have to be, but could), or we need to implement some sort of trust system to give the tags a bit more context: "A user with a reputation of 35 thinks this comment is exemplary," or equivalent. I don't really know what the basis of that system would be, but I half-think it should be defined top-down, i.e. by a set of moderators who can influence a user's trust value in a way that takes the context of their comments into account. Perhaps a mix of moderator input, broader user engagement, and passive factors like seniority would be the way to go. Either way, I would also like the recipient of an exemplary tag to have the option of rejecting or hiding it.

      9 votes
      1. raze2012
        Link Parent
        I don't personally have a stake in the usage or not, but if the problem seems to be that "any" person can use such a tag that's meant to be used to reflect high quality content, there likely...

        I don't personally have a stake in the usage or not, but if the problem seems to be that "any" person can use such a tag that's meant to be used to reflect high quality content, there likely requires some barrier to earn its usage (per community). as an example, I know HackerNews has a downvote system and requires X number of votes and age to an account before they get access to the system. It doesn't stop abuse of the feature, but it ensure you have at least some form of goodwill in the community and that the tag is coming from someone less likely to use it in a combative matter (and if they are, that may say more about the community than the individual at that point).

        However, I'm unsure if the site tracks such metrics (even invisibly, if only to prevent "vote farming"). Nor if it's in the site's interest to.

        I am ambivalent in linking usernames to votes and tags however. For me personally, that'd more likely have me cease to use either feature (even if I have never actually used exemplary tags to begin with, and votes are also relatively rare).

        5 votes
    3. cfabbro
      Link Parent
      Thanks for posting this, and I second all your suggestions. Although I would also like to link to (since the whole thing is worth reading) and quote a part of @chrysanth's comment in the other...

      Thanks for posting this, and I second all your suggestions. Although I would also like to link to (since the whole thing is worth reading) and quote a part of @chrysanth's comment in the other topic which has what I think is another solid suggestion:

      I think there is a deficiency in the tools we have available to address this issue. One of the most obvious ones is the Malice label, but I feel the word malice suggests intent. Intent is impossible to determine online except in cases where the actor in question is acting in bad faith and is not actively seeking to disguise that fact. Many of the commenters who are contributing to this hostile atmosphere on Tildes are not purposefully attempting to push out the minority, they are simply participating in the way they see fit, in good faith, and just happen to be advocating or defending a position which some of us find morally reprehensible. Since their intent is not to be malicious, the Malice label doesn't apply. However, their comments still make the conversation, and by extension the site, a worse experience. Users don't have any way to communicate this to moderation (as far as I can tell) except for using the Malice label and acknowledging that the comment is not malicious, or just directly messaging Deimos to discuss the situation personally.

      I agree 100% that the Malice label needs to be reworked. And IMO even simply renaming it to "report" until it can be more thoroughly reworked might at least make it so people hopefully stop feeling so hesitant to use it.

      8 votes
    4. Amarok
      Link Parent
      Yes, I like the exemplary changes. Brings back a more personal touch, at the user's option.

      Yes, I like the exemplary changes. Brings back a more personal touch, at the user's option.

      2 votes
    5. [2]
      AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      Banned users get a message as to why they were banned.

      I would more generally like to see reasons in all moderator actions, especially locking/deleting threads & posts, as well as banning users. This is more for the sake of transparency, but also as personal feedback.

      Banned users get a message as to why they were banned.

      2 votes
      1. Adys
        Link Parent
        I was referring to post deletions wrt. personal feedback.

        I was referring to post deletions wrt. personal feedback.

        1 vote
    6. [9]
      reifyresonance
      Link Parent
      While I absolutely get why having a space specifically for women is a good idea, this smacks of binary gender. I can't really articulate it, but it feels weird to have the three genders be woman,...

      I want to resurface ~girltalk and ~guytalk, a suggestion from @\NaraVara I really appreciated in the 2019 thread.

      While I absolutely get why having a space specifically for women is a good idea, this smacks of binary gender. I can't really articulate it, but it feels weird to have the three genders be woman, man, lgbt.

      I've seen it divided before into (men)/(women and non-binary people) but I'm not sure if that's the right solution.

      8 votes
      1. [2]
        eve
        Link Parent
        Do you think ~feminine/~masculine might work better? So those who lean that way are encompassed in the group? Or am I just reaching lol? It's hard to find the right way to be more encompassing,...

        Do you think ~feminine/~masculine might work better? So those who lean that way are encompassed in the group? Or am I just reaching lol? It's hard to find the right way to be more encompassing, but it's definitely worth the effort to give it a gander even if it feels a little awkward at first. I definitely agree with your comment that making the three gender man/woman/LGBT feels weird.

        4 votes
        1. Gaywallet
          Link Parent
          Many nonbinary folk don't identify as fem or masc. I also don't think the nonbinary population here is large enough to warrant it's own space (it'll just be absent or blank for a long time). I...

          Many nonbinary folk don't identify as fem or masc. I also don't think the nonbinary population here is large enough to warrant it's own space (it'll just be absent or blank for a long time). I think just ~men and ~women is fine and ~lgbt is where I personally would head if I wanted to participate in outside the binary gender discussion.

          6 votes
      2. [6]
        AugustusFerdinand
        Link Parent
        Tildes doesn't have the userbase to be more specific.

        Tildes doesn't have the userbase to be more specific.

        4 votes
        1. [2]
          MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          I disagree with the premise. If we went off our current user base, then there should be a group for issues regarding straight white cismen and not one for any other group because they're small....

          I disagree with the premise. If we went off our current user base, then there should be a group for issues regarding straight white cismen and not one for any other group because they're small. That doesn't seem like the right solution. While other demographics are smaller, is it not helpful for them to similarly have places to talk about relevant issues?

          4 votes
          1. AugustusFerdinand
            Link Parent
            I thought about expanding my comment, but figured it was clear enough. I'm not saying there shouldn't be specific groups for specific populations, just that Tildes doesn't have a userbase size...

            I thought about expanding my comment, but figured it was clear enough.

            I'm not saying there shouldn't be specific groups for specific populations, just that Tildes doesn't have a userbase size that supports individual groups for every (or even a significant number) genders. No one wants a group that is a ghost town. I'm not even referring to the current population demographics of Tildes, just size.

            8 votes
        2. [2]
          Kuromantis
          Link Parent
          For anything that concerns (cis because ~lgbt) men and women? I don't think so, most (like, 80-85%) of people here are men and there are enough women to post on a hypothetical tildes group like...

          For anything that concerns (cis because ~lgbt) men and women? I don't think so, most (like, 80-85%) of people here are men and there are enough women to post on a hypothetical tildes group like ~women.

          1. AugustusFerdinand
            Link Parent
            For anything that concerns genders other than (cis) men and women. There's enough men (obviously) to handle a ~guytalk and enough women to handle a ~girltalk, but I don't think the size of the...

            For anything that concerns genders other than (cis) men and women. There's enough men (obviously) to handle a ~guytalk and enough women to handle a ~girltalk, but I don't think the size of the userbase (not even demographics, just size) here is adequate to support individual gender sub-tildes and would already be covered via ~lgbt.

            1 vote
  2. [12]
    Echinops
    Link
    Maybe I'm not reading the demography properly but one thing that keeps me from using tildes permanently is a complete lack of gardening or botany or even nature groups. Every other aggregator has...

    Maybe I'm not reading the demography properly but one thing that keeps me from using tildes permanently is a complete lack of gardening or botany or even nature groups. Every other aggregator has some sort of place for us plant folks.

    26 votes
    1. [2]
      rogue_cricket
      Link Parent
      Fellow plant folk here, I think this would be great. Right now if I'd like to talk about my garden or plants I suppose it would go in ~hobbies?

      Fellow plant folk here, I think this would be great. Right now if I'd like to talk about my garden or plants I suppose it would go in ~hobbies?

      10 votes
      1. vord
        Link Parent
        Makes sense to me. With gardening season starting to ramp up, posting under ~hobbies with a gardening tag sounds prudent.

        Makes sense to me. With gardening season starting to ramp up, posting under ~hobbies with a gardening tag sounds prudent.

        6 votes
    2. [7]
      drannex
      Link Parent
      ~botany,~agri, or ~plants would be fantastic.

      ~botany,~agri, or ~plants would be fantastic.

      8 votes
      1. [6]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        I vote ~trees Hehehe

        I vote ~trees

        Hehehe

        11 votes
        1. [5]
          Amarok
          Link Parent
          That was one of the chillest places on the entire internet. I wonder if it still is, haven't been by there in ages.

          That was one of the chillest places on the entire internet. I wonder if it still is, haven't been by there in ages.

          5 votes
          1. [4]
            AugustusFerdinand
            Link Parent
            As a mod of /r/trees for a time, I can tell you that while the place itself was pretty chill (there was some occasional snooty-ness as happens in any enthusiast group), it was an absolute chore to...

            As a mod of /r/trees for a time, I can tell you that while the place itself was pretty chill (there was some occasional snooty-ness as happens in any enthusiast group), it was an absolute chore to moderate. With the most violated rules being no memes, reposts, porn, or minors (in that general order). Inebriated individuals simply don't care about or bother to read the rules.

            10 votes
            1. [3]
              highsomatic
              Link Parent
              We modded the same subreddit :D Indeed, there was a lot of daily gunk that needed to be scraped, as well as mod messages that needed to be dealt with. Sometimes my moderating became completely...

              We modded the same subreddit :D

              Indeed, there was a lot of daily gunk that needed to be scraped, as well as mod messages that needed to be dealt with. Sometimes my moderating became completely mechanical just to go through the queue. Everyone says it was chill, but from my perspective it felt like over half the people weren't happy with the moderators at the time because all I would see were the complaints.

              3 votes
              1. AugustusFerdinand
                Link Parent
                I had absolutely zero interest in dealing with mod messages and just kept to the queue, comments, and new posts while there so can't speak to it, but complaints are a regular thing just about...

                I had absolutely zero interest in dealing with mod messages and just kept to the queue, comments, and new posts while there so can't speak to it, but complaints are a regular thing just about anywhere. No one messages the mods to say they're doing a good job.

                4 votes
              2. tomf
                Link Parent
                everybody should be mod for a day. I mod /r/pizza and a few others that are all fairly relaxed subjects -- but there are always times where people are fighting, someone is being stalked, people...

                everybody should be mod for a day. I mod /r/pizza and a few others that are all fairly relaxed subjects -- but there are always times where people are fighting, someone is being stalked, people want to argue about rules, etc.

                The fact that people think our subs are chill is really the best compliment we can receive for our suffering :)

                3 votes
    3. nukeman
      Link Parent
      Ooooh, a plant group would be good.

      Ooooh, a plant group would be good.

      3 votes
    4. gpl
      Link Parent
      Wow, I would love a nature group actually. The more general the better. Right now for hobby stuff there's ~hobbies and for some nature related things there's ~enviro but that's about it. Some...

      Wow, I would love a nature group actually. The more general the better. Right now for hobby stuff there's ~hobbies and for some nature related things there's ~enviro but that's about it. Some options are:

      ~nature
      ~gardening
      ~plants
      ~botany

      Not sure which would work best!

      3 votes
  3. [12]
    kfwyre
    Link
    I don't know whether this is an issue best solved through culture or mechanics, but I think one thing that would help smooth over some of our frictions is more ways of expressing appreciation for...

    I don't know whether this is an issue best solved through culture or mechanics, but I think one thing that would help smooth over some of our frictions is more ways of expressing appreciation for other users. Right now we have the exemplary label which is nice but can also either be or even just appear weaponized (like @Adys mentioned in his comment). For example, how many times in a heated debate does the blue stripe on a comment seem more like a "take that" to the person arguing with that comment rather than a "this comment is awesome on its own merits"? Even if it's intended as the latter, I think it often comes across as the former, since we can't really know the intent behind its use.

    We know that heated discourse and conflict often erode relationships between users and with the site itself, and I think we need some stuff that counters that -- something that says "hey, 6 people marked you as being an awesome user today" or "kfywre thinks you're splendid and a valuable member of this community".

    I have honest, genuine, legitimate positive associations for nearly every frequent user here. If you comment on Tildes enough for your username to be recognizable across threads, then that means that I genuinely like you and appreciate you, but I doubt that most people here know that. There are probably people here who think I hate them based on disagreements we've had in the past, or just from grokking my general vibe and feeling that I'd be against them, and that is the last thing I want people to think! I genuinely like the people who I've had back-and-forths with here -- sometimes they're the ones I like the most, as our interactions have helped me see qualities in them that I don't see in myself, and I find that difference very valuable.

    I ultimately want the awesome people on Tildes to be able to come online here and know that they're awesome, rather than coming online and hitting some social frictions and then bouncing out. Some of that I think is being addressed in other meta conversations here, but I also think preventing the bad isn't enough. Let's go all in on promoting the good too.

    22 votes
    1. vord
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I'd like the exemplary function, without the visibility. I like anonymously giving feedback on a post, and the functionality of exemplary behind the scenes could prove useful, especially if the...

      I'd like the exemplary function, without the visibility.

      I like anonymously giving feedback on a post, and the functionality of exemplary behind the scenes could prove useful, especially if the visible feedback loop is killed.

      I definitely support keeping the 8 hour limit though, even without visible feedback. Prevents spam and means people will only use it if they really feel it.

      11 votes
    2. [2]
      scrambo
      Link Parent
      At my company, we have a system in place that sends "Hi-Fives" to other associates. To send one, you go to the associated site, enter the recipients name, choose from a list of pre-determined...

      [...] something that says "hey, 6 people marked you as being an awesome user today" or "kfywre thinks you're splendid and a valuable member of this community".

      At my company, we have a system in place that sends "Hi-Fives" to other associates. To send one, you go to the associated site, enter the recipients name, choose from a list of pre-determined reasons and click send (with the optional ability to include a custom message). We might be able to try something similar out here to reinforce the idea you brought up. If we're talking about implementation details I don't think it should be done on a topic-discussion level. I think it would have more impact if it's done from the profile screen. I also think having a list of predetermined reasons to choose from would:

      • Make for a lower barrier of entry to use the feature (analysis paralysis and all that)
      • Help prevent misuse of the feature (send someone a "hi-five" but with a negative associated message to get someone's hopes up and then crush them)

      In the end (at my company) it's not much different than sending an email to the person, but it feels more personal. I received "Hi-Fives" and regular emails wishing me a "Happy Birthday" - the formatted email message with a (goofy but endearing) message felt much better than getting simply

      From: someoneyoudontknow@company.com
      
      happy birthday
      
      <Insert Ridiculously Long Signature>
      

      We'd also have to change the culture here to accept the difference, and play it up. Which I think is the biggest part of the puzzle. Technically, it's no different from getting a nice PM right? WRONG these are completely different and can only be used for nice, wholesome purposes and if you're the recipient of one you should feel oh-so-great because that means you're a great human being worthy of respect, love, and all the nice things in the world.

      10 votes
      1. kfwyre
        Link Parent
        I love this! If we had that kind of thing here, I would be hi-fiving people left and right. We’ve got so many awesome people on the site.

        I love this! If we had that kind of thing here, I would be hi-fiving people left and right. We’ve got so many awesome people on the site.

        10 votes
    3. [2]
      Eric_the_Cerise
      Link Parent
      This is a wonderful direction to try to go. It would be great if there was some kind of option on comments where I could indicate that I appreciate a person, not explicitly for that comment, but...

      This is a wonderful direction to try to go.

      It would be great if there was some kind of option on comments where I could indicate that I appreciate a person, not explicitly for that comment, but ... in the sense of "I'm glad you're here and this comment you wrote reminded me of that".

      6 votes
      1. Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        honestly a heart emoji react is the first thing that came to mind when you said this... I sometimes go out of my way to DM users and let them know I appreciate them but something I can just click...

        honestly a heart emoji react is the first thing that came to mind when you said this... I sometimes go out of my way to DM users and let them know I appreciate them but something I can just click on that makes this easier would be nice too

    4. anothersimulacrum
      Link Parent
      If you're familiar with discourse style forums, this strikes me a little bit like the 'heart' feature on those.

      If you're familiar with discourse style forums, this strikes me a little bit like the 'heart' feature on those.

      4 votes
    5. [2]
      Good_Apollo
      Link Parent
      Exemplary seems really superfluous. The voting system already means that “good” or popular posts get accolades. I don’t think we need an exemplary highlight. If you want to go above and beyond to...

      Exemplary seems really superfluous. The voting system already means that “good” or popular posts get accolades. I don’t think we need an exemplary highlight. If you want to go above and beyond to praise a post, send a PM.

      3 votes
      1. tomf
        Link Parent
        I like the 'no way/need to respond' aspect of the exemplary notes.

        I like the 'no way/need to respond' aspect of the exemplary notes.

        7 votes
    6. Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      I would enjoy something akin to exemplary but with extremely reduced visibility. I'm thinking about the concept of reputation on other sites, where you can award rep for posts you find useful,...

      I would enjoy something akin to exemplary but with extremely reduced visibility. I'm thinking about the concept of reputation on other sites, where you can award rep for posts you find useful, insightful, make a good point, etc. This should not affect sorting in any way and should just exist on the bottom near the vote count.

      2 votes
    7. Amarok
      Link Parent
      Agreed. The logical counter to the negative feedback loops is to build some positive ones that freshen the place up a bit.

      Agreed. The logical counter to the negative feedback loops is to build some positive ones that freshen the place up a bit.

      1 vote
    8. gpl
      Link Parent
      I would love a high five feature. Reminds me of "thanks" features on forums.

      I would love a high five feature. Reminds me of "thanks" features on forums.

      1 vote
  4. [4]
    spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    Something I've mentioned before in previous threads is a modification to the way groups work, to make them non-zero-sum instead of zero-sum. My canonical example of this is the (relatively recent)...

    Something I've mentioned before in previous threads is a modification to the way groups work, to make them non-zero-sum instead of zero-sum.

    My canonical example of this is the (relatively recent) creation of ~space. Before that, space topics were pretty evenly split between ~science (for astronomy stuff) and ~tech (for SpaceX / Starlink / rockets type stuff). The creation of ~space "removed" all space-related stuff from ~science and ~tech. If you're interested in science, including space science, but not the techie side of space, it's difficult to filter it out - there's no way with the current filtering system to say "only show me articles from ~space tagged with science (or not tagged with tech)".

    I find lots of the topics I submit span two or more groups and it's often a toss-up which group to put it in. eg, does this belong in ~food or ~enviro? Does this belong in ~lgbt or ~sports?

    Another perennial suggestion in these group threads is the creation of ~women. I support that in principle, but think that because of the way groups work right now, it would have unintended consequences. If topics related to women's health went in ~women.health (or ~women and tagged with health), then ~health has zero women-centered topics, and becomes a sort of male-by-default space, which I don't think is the right direction to go in.

    The reddit model is just to have crossposts, with each individual subreddit having its own independent comment thread. That works OK-ish, and is obviously influenced by reddit's "each subreddit is its own fiefdom" model where different subreddits have wildly different rules about what comments are acceptable. Tildes has a much more consistent sitewide standard, so the benefit of that type of crossposting is low (and with Tildes still relatively small, and with an low average number of comments per thread, I don't think fragmenting threads further is the way to go).

    As a first stab to how it might work - suppose I could submit a post, and in addition to tags as they exist today, also add "group tags" or something like that? This topic I ended up submitting to ~enviro, with a food tag. Suppose instead I could tag it ~food, and that would act as a kind of super-tag that would also include it in ~food? If you're subscribed to both groups, you'd only see it once, but if you're subscribed to one group but not the other, you're presumably still interested in seeing it.

    If we did this, then commonly used tags could be "promoted" to group tags. We could create ~women by promoting the women tag into a super-tag. That would allow topics to be submitted to ~women directly, but crucially wouldn't remove women-centered topics from the rest of the site - an article about women's sports, for example, could go into ~sports and be tagged ~women, and show up in both groups.

    20 votes
    1. Adys
      Link Parent
      I would love to see this and i think it would definitely make for some interesting cross pollination between communities. I don't know how impactful it would be at this size though, most people...

      I would love to see this and i think it would definitely make for some interesting cross pollination between communities. I don't know how impactful it would be at this size though, most people are subscribed to most groups i suspect.

      8 votes
    2. Amarok
      Link Parent
      This dovetails with some old chit chat about multi-homed threads, and the idea of a thread that moves from one community to the next, gathering different hivemind opinions from each group, and...

      This dovetails with some old chit chat about multi-homed threads, and the idea of a thread that moves from one community to the next, gathering different hivemind opinions from each group, and potentially guaranteeing ideas get challenged as it moves around. This might be able to take /r/all levels of exposure and keep the thread more productive, especially if the submission has its genesis in smaller communities and migrates into larger and larger ones before getting that sort of visibility. It'll already be populated by expert opinions and smaller in-group discussions before becoming a massive free-for-all for the out-group.

      4 votes
    3. Good_Apollo
      Link Parent
      Now this, this makes really good sense I think.

      Now this, this makes really good sense I think.

      2 votes
  5. [4]
    psi
    (edited )
    Link
    I'd like to have a ~podcasts group. Like ~books, podcasts span the gamut of genres. However, as a submission, podcasts are at a disadvantage compared to more traditional media. For instance, I can...

    I'd like to have a ~podcasts group.

    1. Like ~books, podcasts span the gamut of genres. However, as a submission, podcasts are at a disadvantage compared to more traditional media. For instance, I can easily read an article during a work break, but I need to plan-out my podcast listening time in advance.
    2. Typically the sort of person who enjoys podcasts enjoys the medium as whole, not just the subject the podcast covers. Currently tildes doesn't really have a mechanism for recommending podcasts: other than the occasional dedicated thread, you might only learn about a show from an incidental comment. ~podcasts would help people discover new shows.
    19 votes
    1. joplin
      Link Parent
      I think this is a great idea! I would also love to see this.

      I think this is a great idea! I would also love to see this.

      3 votes
    2. Good_Apollo
      Link Parent
      Seconded. Podcasts make my job bearable.

      Seconded. Podcasts make my job bearable.

      2 votes
  6. [3]
    daturkel
    (edited )
    Link
    This is a fairly minor suggestion, and one that's come up before, but I'd love the ability to be able to post the occasional anonymous comment (or post?). I think the practice of making throwaway...

    This is a fairly minor suggestion, and one that's come up before, but I'd love the ability to be able to post the occasional anonymous comment (or post?). I think the practice of making throwaway accounts on reddit is an emergent behavior because there was no official solution. It's tricky because anonymity is often a tool to enable conduct we wouldn't want to be held accountable for (abuse, flaming, spam, etc), but I've also found there are cases when I'd like to be able to share a perspective related to the industry I work in (lest it appear that I'm speaking on behalf of my employer), or based on my career, and I'd rather not have it linked to my named account.

    edit with an unrelated suggestion: I'd love it if locked threads had just a one sentence summary of why they were locked. I've come across a few recently and while you can generally intuit what happened, I think it helps serve as a model for future behavior to know "this thread was locked because XYZ behavior made it shitty."

    15 votes
    1. Kuromantis
      Link Parent
      I agree, with an exception for political topics and minority-related topics, to avoid people claiming to be things they're not (alongside being able to mod those comments just the same as anyone...

      I agree, with an exception for political topics and minority-related topics, to avoid people claiming to be things they're not (alongside being able to mod those comments just the same as anyone else.) I think this take on the purpose of anonymity in this site from Deimos here would be best:

      The purpose isn't complete anonymity, even from the site admins. The purpose is to be able to participate in threads or post information that they wouldn't want publicly associated with their account. If someone abuses the feature for another reason (like trying to be an asshole anonymously), they will lose access to the feature and/or get banned, just like if they did it non-anonymously.

      5 votes
    2. Wulfsta
      Link Parent
      I’m all for anonymous posts, but they should be limited with a timer or another metric - particularly if they’re truly anonymous and not just hidden-username posts.

      I’m all for anonymous posts, but they should be limited with a timer or another metric - particularly if they’re truly anonymous and not just hidden-username posts.

  7. [4]
    Amarok
    Link
    Let's tap ~music.streams. I think it's a great, top level general break for separating links to music itself from everything else in the ~music sphere. It'll also help people avoid the torrent of...

    Let's tap ~music.streams. I think it's a great, top level general break for separating links to music itself from everything else in the ~music sphere. It'll also help people avoid the torrent of tracks that will appear via subscriptions. Judging from the general crankyness around here I think we need some good music. It has a superpower - it's immune to the very bullshit we're all mulling over today. These topics just never curse a music forum - everyone's brains have been smoothed out by the tunes.

    Then after it floats for a while we'll see about a repackage of the submissions into things like a neverending ~tildes music playlist. Then you can just subscribe and consume the Tildes music orgy on your favorite streaming service, off-platform, when you aren't glued to a screen and the music can do the most good. ;)

    This place is still too young for Eternal September.

    12 votes
    1. Adys
      Link Parent
      I'm pretty +1 on this; I unsubscribed to ~music due to this and had to find the group again to post this amazing video essay on rap.

      I'm pretty +1 on this; I unsubscribed to ~music due to this and had to find the group again to post this amazing video essay on rap.

      6 votes
    2. [2]
      frostycakes
      Link Parent
      I don't think the vitriol and drama is lessened though, just focused on different topics. And even these topics themselves come up in music subs-- see any of the (genre)heads subs, and I regard...

      These topics just never curse a music forum

      I don't think the vitriol and drama is lessened though, just focused on different topics. And even these topics themselves come up in music subs-- see any of the (genre)heads subs, and I regard those as some of the few decent large subs over there.

      I love the idea of splitting the streams out and using that to create Tildes Radio basically, though.

      1. Amarok
        Link Parent
        The people fighting about genres are the unique curse of the music forums. None of the other stuff is ever more than a flutter unless there is a really, really controversial music track/video...

        The people fighting about genres are the unique curse of the music forums. None of the other stuff is ever more than a flutter unless there is a really, really controversial music track/video involved. Then it'll be about whatever that issue is - and universally less insane than any other thread on the topic you will ever see on a non-music forum. The worst you can ever find is a 'mild' flamewar, usually with the people fighting being jeered into submission in the comments by everyone else.

        Of course, if it hits /r/all the bets are off, since that's not the music forum anymore, it's everyone.

  8. [5]
    Atvelonis
    Link
    I know that this thread is specifically about mechanics, but I would also like to make the comment that normative community practices and other non-codified elements of site culture go a long way...

    I know that this thread is specifically about mechanics, but I would also like to make the comment that normative community practices and other non-codified elements of site culture go a long way toward maintaining a positive environment. I think that some of the recent ~talk threads remining users to be aware of the space they take up in discussions have done more to improve behavior than a structural change necessarily would have, because those threads encouraged users to actively reflect on their actions and be better rather than trying to shape their behavior subliminally. That's not to say that the structural is unimportant—generally speaking, I try not to rely on people to act appropriately entirely of their own volition—but it's only part of the picture. I do think that we need more of an active emphasis on the social empowerment of the underrepresented. A group for ~women or ~womxn would be valuable, but it needs to come with site-wide behavioral expectations that are a little more focused on social justice than what I think we currently operate on.

    12 votes
    1. [4]
      NaraVara
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      This is a chicken and egg thing. The site will not be more sensitive to these matters if the relevant people aren’t here. Also, it’s really worth noting that imposing a social justice orientation...

      A group for ~women or ~womxn would be valuable, but it needs to come with site-wide behavioral expectations that are a little more focused on social justice than what I think we currently operate on.

      This is a chicken and egg thing. The site will not be more sensitive to these matters if the relevant people aren’t here.

      Also, it’s really worth noting that imposing a social justice orientation around any involvement or participation from marginalized groups can actually be quite off putting to many who just want a space to hang out. “Woke” or Social justicey types are a minority among minority groups. There are plenty of conservative or “traditionalist” women out there for example.

      Making a space that’s friendly or comfortable for women or ethic or religious minorities is a distinct goal that is separate from making a “social justice oriented” space. Those attract completely different kinds of people. For another example, WorldStar was mostly Black but many of the participants on there would definitely not get along with social justice movements. Or, more specifically, a lot on online social justice posters wouldn’t get along with them.

      10 votes
      1. Atvelonis
        Link Parent
        I wouldn't presume to know what content "should" belong in a subgroup with which I don't primarily identify. I wasn't suggesting that ~women needs to be rooted exclusively in contemporary feminist...

        I wouldn't presume to know what content "should" belong in a subgroup with which I don't primarily identify. I wasn't suggesting that ~women needs to be rooted exclusively in contemporary feminist activism, but rather that Tildes ought to embody the very basic expectation of "social justice" (as in "socio-positional recognition") much more explicitly in its documentation. i.e. better self-awareness of where one's voice is relevant, within a framework that understands the impact of cultural power structures on the collective discourse. I don't think this is particularly ideological, just etiquette. It also mostly applies to the people who would not be posting in ~women, in the vein of the earlier "minority voices" thread; if the site-wide expectation is that men should be mindful of their voice in threads specifically asking for opinions held by women, then we will avoid the issue of men talking over women. It just has to be grounded in a tangible ethos that people can actually refer to (in the docs), or else the concept won't survive more than a couple rounds of user turnover in any meaningful capacity.

        You're correct that the site will not magically become "more sensitive" toward women's issues with a ~women group, but the group would implicitly suggest what I described in the above paragraph. My impression is that Tildes users outside the LGBTQ+ community are at least vaguely aware that ~lgbt has a certain intended audience, even though anyone is still welcome to participate. That awareness translates, in my estimation, to a discourse that grounds the voices of said intended audience more effectively than we see in other groups. I suspect that a group for ~women would experience something similar, and I'm also confident that its existence would encourage more women to engage with the space—particularly if the ethos I referred to above is simultaneously being practiced by other members of the community.

        4 votes
      2. [2]
        DanBC
        Link Parent
        The risk is that gender critical people find Tildes and dominate that group, and then spread toxicity to the rest of tildes. There's not much risk of Tildes being as bad as Mumsnet or Twitter, but...

        The risk is that gender critical people find Tildes and dominate that group, and then spread toxicity to the rest of tildes.

        There's not much risk of Tildes being as bad as Mumsnet or Twitter, but it could get pretty bad unless moderation is vigorous.

        1. NaraVara
          Link Parent
          How though? There's a single admin who can unilaterally ban them. This isn't reddit or twitter where engagement is prioritized over quality posting. They couldn't make subforums to organize. So...

          The risk is that gender critical people find Tildes and dominate that group, and then spread toxicity to the rest of tildes.

          How though? There's a single admin who can unilaterally ban them. This isn't reddit or twitter where engagement is prioritized over quality posting. They couldn't make subforums to organize. So what are they gonna do besides shit the place up for a little while before getting jazzed?

          Being on a hair trigger to react to anything that's even remotely adjacent to something someone in a gender critical crowd might say as if it's hatemongering or "stochastic terrorism" or whatever in itself will do a lot more damage than they do. Because that behavior tends to come from a good place so is a lot harder to ban.

          8 votes
  9. [5]
    mrbig
    (edited )
    Link
    A ~spirituality group (or something to that effect) for discussions and content about religion, faith, theology, etc. Feature: I wish there was a toggle to hide/show video posts. I never watch...

    A ~spirituality group (or something to that effect) for discussions and content about religion, faith, theology, etc.

    Feature: I wish there was a toggle to hide/show video posts. I never watch videos on mobile, so I'd like to be able to easily filter those out.

    11 votes
    1. joplin
      Link Parent
      +1 for that! I sometimes set my filter to not show posts tagged with video, but there are times when I want to watch videos and so turning it on and off in the settings each time is a pain. I...

      Feature: I wish there was a toggle to hide/show video posts. I never watch videos on mobile, so I'd like to be able to easily filter those out.

      +1 for that! I sometimes set my filter to not show posts tagged with video, but there are times when I want to watch videos and so turning it on and off in the settings each time is a pain. I would love a toggle for that.

      4 votes
    2. [2]
      petrichor
      Link Parent
      This would be fun. I just wonder if there'd be enough activity to warrant pulling it out of the ~humanities and ~life mixup theology currently embodies.

      A ~spirituality group (or something to that effect) for discussions and content about religion, faith, theology, etc.

      This would be fun. I just wonder if there'd be enough activity to warrant pulling it out of the ~humanities and ~life mixup theology currently embodies.

      3 votes
      1. mrbig
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I don't know. There are not a lot of religious/spiritual people on Tildes, and it is sometimes akward to introduce theses subjects on current groups. A dedicated group might help some feel more...

        I don't know. There are not a lot of religious/spiritual people on Tildes, and it is sometimes akward to introduce theses subjects on current groups. A dedicated group might help some feel more comfortable to talk about these matters.

        8 votes
    3. autumn
      Link Parent
      I love the ~spirituality idea! I’ve been studying druidry the past couple of months, but from a secular/psychological perspective. Nowhere else seems like a good place to bring it up.

      I love the ~spirituality idea! I’ve been studying druidry the past couple of months, but from a secular/psychological perspective. Nowhere else seems like a good place to bring it up.

      2 votes
  10. [15]
    nukeman
    Link
    I agree that more, public tags would be nice. I know someone suggested a “harmful” tag for comments which have hurtful language but were not intentional. Regarding new groups, I would like...

    I agree that more, public tags would be nice. I know someone suggested a “harmful” tag for comments which have hurtful language but were not intentional.

    Regarding new groups, I would like ~engineering. The group would focus on larger scale technology (e.g., nuclear reactors, bridges, chemical plants, the electric grid, automotive manufacturing plants, etc) vs the smaller scale/computing items which seem to dominate ~tech. I also wouldn’t mind a ~politics, to consolidate politically oriented discussion (especially of a high quality variety, cf. r/neutralpolitics or r/AskHistorians), but I understand if that opens up too many worms.

    10 votes
    1. [4]
      Amarok
      Link Parent
      Maybe we should bring back a reddit classic: ಠ_ಠ What mechanic helps you tell someone politely that their tone/phrasing or attitude stinks? How do we make the feedback constructive rather than...

      Maybe we should bring back a reddit classic: ಠ_ಠ

      What mechanic helps you tell someone politely that their tone/phrasing or attitude stinks? How do we make the feedback constructive rather than antagonistic? The world may never know.

      9 votes
      1. [3]
        vord
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        A hidden tone tag, from all but admins, with sub-tags tone.positive, tone.aggressive, etc. Will make it easier for people to filter out negativity. Edit: Clarified.

        A hidden tone tag, from all but admins, with sub-tags tone.positive, tone.aggressive, etc.

        Will make it easier for people to filter out negativity.

        Edit: Clarified.

        7 votes
        1. [2]
          Wulfsta
          Link Parent
          The only concern that immediately comes to me with private tags is potential for abuse. It seems like enabling users to send messages that are unseen by others, anonymous, and cannot be replied to...

          The only concern that immediately comes to me with private tags is potential for abuse. It seems like enabling users to send messages that are unseen by others, anonymous, and cannot be replied to is a bad move. I feel that if they could be replied to like a DM this might be better, and the person writing the tag would be directly confronting the user - but what better is this than DMs to begin with? Anonymizing the person writing the tag?

          3 votes
          1. vord
            Link Parent
            Not necessarily visible to the poster either. More just a hidden attribute that people who want to avoid negativity can filter on. I'll edit accordingly.

            Not necessarily visible to the poster either. More just a hidden attribute that people who want to avoid negativity can filter on.

            I'll edit accordingly.

            1 vote
    2. Cycloneblaze
      Link Parent
      I like this idea... @Gaywallet mentioned elsewhere using the malice tag to report comments but I feel like that tag assumes a level of bad faith which I amn't sure is present (maybe I'm not...

      I know someone suggested a “harmful” tag for comments which have hurtful language but were not intentional.

      I like this idea... @Gaywallet mentioned elsewhere using the malice tag to report comments but I feel like that tag assumes a level of bad faith which I amn't sure is present (maybe I'm not cynical enough). Harmful feels more forgiving, I guess.

      7 votes
    3. [2]
      drannex
      Link Parent
      +1 to this, I wrote in another thread about a tech.robotics, but ~engineering would be fantastic.

      +1 to this, I wrote in another thread about a tech.robotics, but ~engineering would be fantastic.

      6 votes
      1. Adys
        Link Parent
        Also seconding ~engineering. If it were created I'd post quite a few videos to it :)

        Also seconding ~engineering. If it were created I'd post quite a few videos to it :)

        5 votes
    4. [3]
      joplin
      Link Parent
      Your description of ~engineering sounds very different from what I would expect to see in a group with that name. Would ~mechanical_engineering (or ~engineering.mechanical?) or...

      Your description of ~engineering sounds very different from what I would expect to see in a group with that name. Would ~mechanical_engineering (or ~engineering.mechanical?) or ~large_scale_engineering be a better name? I would expect ~engineering to include everything from computer and electrical engineering to environmental engineering to automotive etc.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        nukeman
        Link Parent
        I wasn’t intending to exclude what you mention. I guess I just want a firmer separation from ~tech (which seems dominated by computing and web related topics, both here and Reddit)....

        I wasn’t intending to exclude what you mention. I guess I just want a firmer separation from ~tech (which seems dominated by computing and web related topics, both here and Reddit).

        ~engineering.mechanical will be great once ~engineering gets big enough.

        2 votes
        1. joplin
          Link Parent
          Ah, I see. Yeah, that seems reasonable.

          Ah, I see. Yeah, that seems reasonable.

          1 vote
    5. [4]
      boredop
      Link Parent
      At this point we might as well. ~misc is practically all politics already. Let's change the name to ~politics and get it over with.

      I also wouldn’t mind a ~politics, to consolidate politically oriented discussion (especially of a high quality variety, cf. r/neutralpolitics or r/AskHistorians), but I understand if that opens up too many worms.

      At this point we might as well. ~misc is practically all politics already. Let's change the name to ~politics and get it over with.

      3 votes
      1. [3]
        nukeman
        Link Parent
        I still would keep ~misc. It’s nice to have a place where we can just chuck something if it doesn’t fit in another group. Which may be the case for a long time to come.

        I still would keep ~misc. It’s nice to have a place where we can just chuck something if it doesn’t fit in another group. Which may be the case for a long time to come.

        9 votes
        1. boredop
          Link Parent
          Agree 100%. Keep ~misc and move politics garbage out of there. And if there is resistance to putting it back in ~news, then just make ~politics a thing so I can unsubscribe already. ;-)

          Agree 100%. Keep ~misc and move politics garbage out of there. And if there is resistance to putting it back in ~news, then just make ~politics a thing so I can unsubscribe already. ;-)

          6 votes
        2. jcdl
          Link Parent
          This discussion reminds me a little bit of what happened with /r/reddit.com, which was effectively a misc subreddit until it was closed.

          This discussion reminds me a little bit of what happened with /r/reddit.com, which was effectively a misc subreddit until it was closed.

          2 votes
  11. [5]
    nacho
    Link
    With the volume of content on the site, I don't feel balkanizing any groups further is the way to go. There isn't content to justify it. If you can't scroll past one link you aren't interested in,...

    With the volume of content on the site, I don't feel balkanizing any groups further is the way to go. There isn't content to justify it. If you can't scroll past one link you aren't interested in, that's on you, not the site.

    I'd want fewer, more inclusive groups and more tags.


    Here's an example: In approximately the same field we today have:
    ~anime
    ~arts
    ~books
    ~creative
    ~design
    ~games
    ~hobbies
    ~movies
    ~music
    ~tv

    Together these 10 groups average 13 topics and 59 comments a day. That splitting must reduce discussion on the small amount of content the site has. That is not good.


    If/when tildes becomes a big site, that's the time to make changes to suit a big site. Not now, where such an organization is harmful to the site.

    Even if a few people with very specific interests want their own group, or want to exclude that one post from their listings every day. The cost/benefit is very heavily skewed to costing the site activity for little benefit.

    10 votes
    1. [3]
      Adys
      Link Parent
      A group averaging 1 post a day sounds fine to me at this size for a site? I have a hard time imagining losing or folding any of those groups you mentioned. I also don't favour opening like 10 new...

      A group averaging 1 post a day sounds fine to me at this size for a site? I have a hard time imagining losing or folding any of those groups you mentioned.

      I also don't favour opening like 10 new groups at once, but like I said I suspect that activity may increase given more space and prompts for content. It's not guaranteed, but i have seen it happen for example when I managed some decently sized discord servers: more channels with specific topics increased the amount of overall messages users were sending because more users were finding their "home" and were comfortable contributing to those. There might be an aspect missing in tildes for that though, a reason to visit the groups individually rather than simply have them as categories.

      8 votes
      1. Amarok
        Link Parent
        The benchmark I used on reddit for dead vs alive when I was making the music multis was around five posts a month. That was from looking at several hundred music subreddits, most of them under 10k...

        The benchmark I used on reddit for dead vs alive when I was making the music multis was around five posts a month. That was from looking at several hundred music subreddits, most of them under 10k subs. A lot of those are dead now, but a lot more of them got pretty big and popular and busy. It seemed like a reasonable cutoff, and we can be more generous on a site this small than five a month.

        If a group is flatly dead here for a prolonged period, we can just fold it back into the parent. I think that perhaps we can be more adventurous starting up smaller groups because it doesn't harm the site or cost us anything having less active groups around. It's only when there are hundreds of dead groups, vastly outnumbering the active ones, that it makes your website look like a wasteland. Nobody is suggesting that, though - just some level of turnover and experimentation.

        4 votes
      2. nukeman
        Link Parent
        I think we can definitely start more with subtopics, that might help prevent atomization while giving people more space to discuss their topics. Many of the proposals I’m seeing are for subtopics...

        I think we can definitely start more with subtopics, that might help prevent atomization while giving people more space to discuss their topics. Many of the proposals I’m seeing are for subtopics rather than full topics.

        1 vote
    2. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      I agree with the fewer groups and more tags idea. To make this scale able though I think we also need a sort of “default” set of tags in each group that are prioritized in the UI somehow. For...

      I agree with the fewer groups and more tags idea. To make this scale able though I think we also need a sort of “default” set of tags in each group that are prioritized in the UI somehow. For example if we merged books, movies, and TV into “storytelling” I’d like a book, movie, or TV tag to either be mandatory or suggested so strongly that people always put it there and always put it there in the same way.

      5 votes
  12. tomf
    Link
    Not sure where it would land, but it'd be nice to have a space to put podcasts. I'd still love for us to have the ability to go to something like ~music.rap to automatically filter down music by...

    Not sure where it would land, but it'd be nice to have a space to put podcasts.

    I'd still love for us to have the ability to go to something like ~music.rap to automatically filter down music by rap -- which would also remove the need for formal subgroup creation. :)

    7 votes
  13. [5]
    overtowed
    (edited )
    Link
    Has a feature like "private replies" been discussed as a moderation tool? So lighter-touch feedback can be given privately and in context? I can see it being a can of worms without sufficient...

    Has a feature like "private replies" been discussed as a moderation tool? So lighter-touch feedback can be given privately and in context? I can see it being a can of worms without sufficient trust and training. And it's hard labor. But maybe helpful to reach some new local maximum. Maybe it doesn't have to be an admin-level privilege? Maybe it already exists and a ghost will appear:

    edit: reflecting on this a bit more, I believe it's a can of worms because it allows for very low-friction interactions with random people on the internet in what can be heated and serious exchanges. Sometimes things will spiral, people will get hurt, and nobody else will even know unless it's shared; we'll feel the aftermath though. And sometimes Deimos will wade into a disaster.

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      Amarok
      Link Parent
      We've talked about whisper comments and semi-private or fully-private side chains for conversation before. I was interested because it offers a way to cut down on the comment bloat that plagues...

      We've talked about whisper comments and semi-private or fully-private side chains for conversation before. I was interested because it offers a way to cut down on the comment bloat that plagues larger threads in places like reddit.

      It's an unexplored problem space, right? We usually have replies and direct messages... and that's it. We're locking ourselves into one-to-one or one-to-many modes of communication with nothing in between. One must either talk in private, or talk on the stage with everyone else.

      Maybe it's just as simple as a 'private reply' box to get started.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        Diff
        Link Parent
        Another idea would be to comment as an aside. Keep it all public, but shuffle it out of sight by default. Although I might just be describing the ability label your own comments as Noise, maybe...

        Another idea would be to comment as an aside. Keep it all public, but shuffle it out of sight by default. Although I might just be describing the ability label your own comments as Noise, maybe with an adjustment to make Noisy threads not count as new activity and not bump the thread in the various listings?

        6 votes
        1. joplin
          Link Parent
          That's intriguing! I really like that idea. Not sure what I would want it to look like, but a way to say, "I have something to say here, but it's tangential and I don't want to hijack the thread,"...

          That's intriguing! I really like that idea. Not sure what I would want it to look like, but a way to say, "I have something to say here, but it's tangential and I don't want to hijack the thread," would be useful in my opinion.

          1 vote
    2. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Seems like it could be useful as a community moderation feature. Something provided to trusted users, similar to tag and title editing powers. And I don’t mean moderation like mod powers. More...

      Seems like it could be useful as a community moderation feature. Something provided to trusted users, similar to tag and title editing powers.

      And I don’t mean moderation like mod powers. More like a debate moderator thing.

      2 votes
  14. petrichor
    Link
    What do you all think about keeping the "Exemplary" label, turning off the cooldown and anonymity, and making them publicly hidden? I strongly agree with what others have said about "Exemplary"...

    What do you all think about keeping the "Exemplary" label, turning off the cooldown and anonymity, and making them publicly hidden?

    I strongly agree with what others have said about "Exemplary" labels having been used as a sort of super-upvote, and on occasion I have felt tempted to do the same against my better judgement. My impression - and I don't think I was on this site when labels were first implemented, so that's all it is, just an impression - is that "Exemplaried" comments were intended to showcase particularly well-written or nice comments on Tildes. They certainly don't seem to have been used as such.

    But getting an "Exemplary" label is nice. It's nice to know that someone appreciated your comment, especially if you put effort into expressing yourself clearly and concisely. It's nice to know that somebody thought what you said was interesting and well-expressed enough to write a quick note telling you so. I just feel like having them be public isn't particularly useful at best, and harmful to discussion at worst.

    6 votes
  15. [3]
    Good_Apollo
    Link
    Why not just rely on being able to hide people’s posts? If you want a curated discourse experience the only fair and easy way to ensure it is you being able to curate it yourself. Don’t like a...

    Why not just rely on being able to hide people’s posts? If you want a curated discourse experience the only fair and easy way to ensure it is you being able to curate it yourself. Don’t like a user? Bam they’re gone for you. Maybe if they’re that toxic they’ll be commenting to nobody once everyone has hidden them.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      spit-evil-olive-tips
      Link Parent
      I think this would be a useful feature on an individual level, but ultimately very counterproductive for Tildes as a whole. (but I think it's an excellent thing to consider for exactly that...

      I think this would be a useful feature on an individual level, but ultimately very counterproductive for Tildes as a whole.

      (but I think it's an excellent thing to consider for exactly that reason, because that tension between what's best for an individual user and what's best for the site as a whole is at the crux of virtually everything this and other meta threads are discussing)

      If there's people on the site whose posts are so bad or harmful that a significant subset of users want to ignore them entirely, then yes, we as frequent, logged-in users could notice that pattern, and mark them as auto-ignored.

      Newly registered users (or unregistered users browsing the site and deciding if they want to ask for an invite) would have an empty blocklist. Which means they'd see a very different version of Tildes than the one long-time users, who've taken the time to "curate" their user blocklist, see.

      7 votes
      1. Good_Apollo
        Link Parent
        I suppose this is an idea that works best with Tildes at the state it is now: rather small. Ideally I wouldn't want Tildes to ever get Reddit-size. Only slightly bigger than it is now, maybe two-fold.

        I suppose this is an idea that works best with Tildes at the state it is now: rather small.

        Ideally I wouldn't want Tildes to ever get Reddit-size. Only slightly bigger than it is now, maybe two-fold.

        1 vote
  16. Kuromantis
    (edited )
    Link
    One of the more unorthodox suggestions I have is that I think something like a Wikipedia talk page where you request tag addition or title editing would be a good idea. Currently you have to...

    One of the more unorthodox suggestions I have is that I think something like a Wikipedia talk page where you request tag addition or title editing would be a good idea. Currently you have to request Deimos to let you edit tags or PM someone who can edit tags (most obviously @mycketforvirrad). While there's nothing wrong with this, I think letting people request tag editing would be a lot more convenient, but more importantly, I think it would be a pretty good place to make a serious attempt at demo-ing the proposed trust system.

    A small list of other things I would be interested in are:

    A recurring topic on what you have you done with your friends and romantic partner(s?) It seems most people here have an SO of some sort, so I would be interested in people talking about what they do with them. Maybe that's just because a lot of places I visit often cater to and assume that the people that go to them don't have friends or a girlfriend SO and I give that way too much room in my head because of that, but I think it would be cool.

    Labeling posts needs to come to the site eventually.

    I think a ~speculation (in the general sense) where we talk about what we think will happen in the future ala r/futurewhatif but better modded would be interesting IMO.

    People have often suggested to just do away with groups entirely, and I find that quite compelling as a makeshift way of having all the groups via having no groups.

    4 votes
  17. [2]
    petrichor
    (edited )
    Link
    I second @Adys, ~health.mental and ~health.fitness (or ~health.body) seems like a natural subdivision, and would likely encourage posting in both. Subgroups in ~science would be welcome for the...

    I second @Adys, ~health.mental and ~health.fitness (or ~health.body) seems like a natural subdivision, and would likely encourage posting in both.

    Subgroups in ~science would be welcome for the same reason (dedicated groups drive up activity, as seen with ~design and ~games.tabletop). I really like the organizational structure @Algernon_Asimov proposed:

    Eventually, ~humanities might do well with a similar treatment (just sketching out ideas here):

    ~games.tabletop and ~games.game_design appear to have been split off from ~games since the last time group structure was brought up. I'm not a fan of this distinction - ~games.game_design is essentially dead, and ~games has become ~games.digital in effect. I'd propose deleting ~games.game_design (or rather, re-merging it with ~games) and the addition of a ~games.digital for much the same reason as ~music.streams would be nice - it filters out the overwhelming amount of homogeneous content occupying that general-purpose space.

    A ~comp.unix group would be really nice to have. I don't have a strong reason for this, other than that I and others would enjoy it.

    (oh, and the subscription colors in the groups page are broken, for anyone wondering)

    4 votes
    1. SheepWolf
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      This was already tried. I don't remember exactly how long the trial period was but on September 5, 2019 those groups were added, and as far as I know, there were either (or both) not enough posts...

      Subgroups in ~science would be welcome for the same reason (dedicated groups drive up activity, as seen with ~design and ~games.tabletop). I really like the organizational structure @Algernon_Asimov[+] proposed:

      This was already tried. I don't remember exactly how long the trial period was but on September 5, 2019 those groups were added, and as far as I know, there were either (or both) not enough posts in each subgroup to justify their existence or some other issue which lead to the groups remerging. Unless you are proposing that those groups should split again?

      The other point I want to make is that much of the differentiation of groups are probably better off handled with tags, but I think the current system would need to be adjusted slightly.


      This wasn't meant to be targeted directly at you (@petrichor) but was just an idea I had while typing my reply.

      I have a proposal, but there are some major problems that I list below. My proposal (maybe as only a temporary fix) is to have the ability to manually create custom "groups" on the sidebar which are in actuality just a filter/search that displays topics within the larger groups with those specific tags.

      That way if someone is really only interested in ~science.social (either posting directly to the subgroup/specific tag or viewing only), they can click on their custom group and it would only show topics tagged with the science.social tag. I think then the issue would be having only science.social topics displayed on their home page while other non-science.social topics are hidden if they do not wish to see those or something. I'm not entirely sure of all the various edge cases or if I am being coherent at the moment.

      Additionally, when a topic is posted after going into their custom/temporary ~science.social group (or whatever), that tag is automatically filled in when they wish to make a new post to that group.

      There are a few huge problems with this idea. First someone would actually need to write the code and submit it. I am not a programmer and I subsequently have no idea the effort needed to implement this idea, but I imagine it is not a trivial thing especially considering this may only be a temporary or stop-gap measure to avoid having excess official groups. Another major problem is if everyone creates their own custom "groups" with bunches of various tags and posts then we will likely find ourselves in situation where not only would we have ~science and ~science.social tagged in posts but also posts with unrelated or unnecessary variations (e.g. ~science.socialsciences and misspellings/typos) . This might not be an issue if users agreed to the same conventions but that might be difficult to enforce. I think there might also need to be more tag clean-up being done. There are a few solutions to this particular issue that I have the start of some ideas for but nothing fully fleshed out.

      2 votes
  18. joplin
    Link
    There have been some synth enthusiasts on the site. (Though sadly, some have left :-(.) I would love to see a ~music.synth, or something like that. Not sure if there's critical mass for such a...

    There have been some synth enthusiasts on the site. (Though sadly, some have left :-(.) I would love to see a ~music.synth, or something like that. Not sure if there's critical mass for such a group yet, though. This is another case where some of the topics currently go into ~music, and some go into ~tech or ~comp, so it's a pain to keep up with them all.

  19. Removed by admin: 5 comments by 2 users
    Link