Hi. I'm finishing my schooling and have received a job offer on the west coast (Vancouver). I also have comparably good, though marginally worse, job offers here on the east coast where I live (Toronto).

I'm familiar with Toronto and have many friends here or nearby, especially since I grew up and went to school not too far. However, the offer I have in Vancouver is "better" both in terms of compensation (though not that it makes a big difference) and in terms of the actual learning experience I would have on the job.

If this job was also in Toronto I would take it immediately with no hesitation. However, it being in Vancouver gives me some pause. I've visited the city and have some mutual, but not personal, friends there. The city overall is fairly agreeable, and I enjoy the nature and scenery a lot.

Question: have any of you made similar moves, how did you feel about it retrospectively, and how did you go about establishing a friend group outside of work?

Inspired by this post and many thoughts I had about the topic previously.

For some reason, a lot of people treat friendships and romantic relationships as two entirely separate things. People say stuff like "I could never date a friend" or "I want to date them but they just want to be friends". The top comment by @BeanBurrito on the post I linked mentions how men want to become friends with women simply because they have too little confidence to just ask them out.

I've never understood this. To me, being a friend and dating are just two points on the same closeness spectrum. You go from acquaintances to friends, then best friends, then partners. You can obviously skip some of those steps sometimes, but those are still the same thing - being in a romantic relationship is the same as being very close friends, it's just an even closer form of it. Yes, there's usually an extra factor of exclusivity in a relationship - but they can be non exclusive, so it's not a defining trait.

Asking someone out shortly after meeting them is such a wild concept to me. You probably wouldn't meet someone and immediately just go "hey, let's be best friends", so why would you ask them if they would be even more?

I also don't really get why people care about being "friendzoned", for the same reason. Like ok, you won't be the "bestest closest friends" with someone, but you can still be good friends? If they agree, you can still have personal conversations, or cuddle, or do whatever else that you can do in a relationship. I get why people can be upset if a person they like shows absolutely no attention towards them, but why would you be upset at them just wanting to be friends?

It it literally just about sex and physical attraction? But then also, things like "friends with benefits" exist. So clearly, you don't have to be in a relationship in order to do that. And if that's the only thing you actually need, why would you ask someone "let's date" instead of just directly saying what you want?

I don't get it.

I've been friends with someone for 18 months that seems to be taking the friendship in an inappropriate direction. Well, it started inappropriate as well.

At my last job we all sat in cubicles. One day, having just led my ornithologist brother on a small bird tour of the area, I described the trip to a co-worker. Someone I'd never noticed before popped up from behind a cube wall and started asking questions. She introduced herself and for the next few days continued to strike up conversations with me.

After a certain amount of this I wondered if this was a romantic interest from her. I was already counting the days until I would quit the job so saw little reason not to ask her out for a drink. When I proposed the idea she gave me a devious smile and we quietly headed out. Afterwards, in the settling of the tab, I Venmo'd her for a beer and noticed her Venmo account had a different last name than she has at work and asked about that. She's Chinese and I wasn't sure if sometimes Chinese people might have an anglicized last name in addition to their first name. "Oh, sometimes I use one, sometimes the other" was all I got. Nothing physical occurred or was initiated.

A week later after texting and going to a company workout class together she tells me that she is married. I'm absolutely shocked and feel like I've been used as part of someone's adulterous fantasy. The style of our conversations seemed identical to the getting-to-know-you type of stuff you cover on first dates. But I wasn't sure. Maybe I misread the situation. I tell her I'm not comfortable with the situation and we stop talking for a week. But I'd already joined the group workout class on her recommendation and would see her there anyway. I decided that I didn't really know what her intentions were and would give her the benefit of the doubt. She seemed to be interested in us having a friendship.

But I really wanted to know... what did happen? One of my favorite podcasts is Heavyweight. In it, Jonathan Goldstein plays the role of a social detective. People come to him with relationship issues from their past and he, without the restraint most people feel, badgers people for answers with his journalistic skills. I suspect I am mildly autistic, so for me many mundane social interactions carry mystery. To have Goldstein take relatable life experiences and crack them open for all to see is powerful. It's like we can finally get some goddamn answers to people's closest kept secrets.

So as time went on I got integrated into her group of friends, met her husband, her dog. Her husband seems like a great guy. But my friend would give indications of unhappiness in her marriage, often in groups when he was not around, occasionally over text message to me. I never engaged.

She had some hard-to-get permits for a backpacking trip. It would be a trip of four. Her husband was not interested so she invited three friends including myself. I went on the trip, made a new friend who just moved to my city, and had a great time. Immediately afterwards we started planning a new trip.

At some point my female friend did initiate a conversation on what she was thinking when we went out for a drink and what happened during the days after before she told me she was married. It boiled down to her wanting my friendship but not wanting to change my behavior. In my interpretation she wanted the attention of being dated. I honestly wasn't sure how much I believed this explanation - and even on its face it didn't sound super great.

So we just got back from another backpacking trip - myself, my female friend, and a male friend of hers who is married. During the trip I ended up discussing my sexuality with the two of them. I consider myself to be on the spectrum of asexuality. I described, as best I could, what makes me attracted to people (an emotional connection, their personality and intelligence, etc.) and the short list of people I had found myself strongly attracted to. I didn't list my female friend - I had lost most of my interest with that initial feeling of being used a year and a half ago. And a couple weeks isn't quite enough time for me to really get things revved up. Visibly I could see she was very confused but I didn't acknowledge her reaction. "Wasn't there one more ... the married one?" I dodged the question.

On the drive back her male friend brought up the topic of my sexuality again. I answered his questions. My female friend seemed to again want to know if I was attracted to her. "Do you ever find your friends attractive?" "Are you attracted to older women?" (she's older than me)

On my side of things, this friendship has been predicated on the idea that as long as I didn't engage with anything I consider to be unethical there couldn't be any harm done. But now I'm not so sure. And what's worse - I'm finding myself attracted to her again because of her interest.

I've been thinking about having a conversation about how she's making me uncomfortable. I think it's past the point where there's any chance nothing's going on. I really do not get the impression she's trying to leave her husband. I just feel played with.

Edit: Okay, the friend in question is away for a few weeks but I'll have a conversation with them when they get back to figure this out.

How many friends do you have? Good good friends vs more casual friends. What's the dividing line or definition of one vs the other for you? Related question: what life stage are you in, and what was friendship like at a different stage?

How do you keep in touch, esp for friends not in your city? Do you call them randomly or call / video chat with them regularly? Do texts count? Do people welcome phone calls out of the blue or is it more like, "oh gosh you have cancer" if one gets a call from a friend these days?

How much effort are regular people* putting into maintaining/strengthening their friendships in their late-30s onwards? (Regular people being, maybe, folks who aren't terminally online, folks who are neurotypical, folks without social anxiety etc?) [edit: oh no I messed up!! I mean that I super want to hear from others who fit one or more of these boxes as well, but since I'm 3/3 plus all kinds of crazy I am interested to know if these are factors in friendships, particularly because most people are of the "normal" sort who would have to put up with me.....my apologies.]

Do folks suddenly realise maybe they don't have many/any close friends, or they're not as close anymore as they thought they were decades ago? How do folks maintain friendship as people age and move apart? Or is it just normal that once you're not in the same city to hang out, they stop being good friends?

Have you ever made conscious and serious efforts to make / rekindle friendships before? How, and how'd that turn out ?

Hi everyone,

As other Tildes members have expressed through multiple topics, finding friends as adult is hard. I'm currently trying to figure what's the best way to do this for me and I was hoping I could get some help. I've tried joining group activities like boardgame and table top RPG groups but while it's been good to make acquaintances I haven't been able to find someone I could call a friend. I know partly this is on me because it's hard for me to connect with others, but through repetition I'm hoping to get there eventually. I also thought recently maybe I should change or complement my approach with something else, which is why I'm here. Are there any good online platforms to make friends? I know that for the most part apps where the goal is to get people together are more geared towards romantic relationships, but that's not what I'm after, I'm looking for something strickly platonic. Ideally should be someone near me so that we're not restricted to only doing online activities.

Appreciate any help I can get here.

Where do you find support and friendship? Who are the folks who encourage you and add positivity to your life? It can be anything from a local gym to a sewing group to an online forum. I'd love to hear about every's little supportive corners and community networks!

• this was kicked off by the Bro summer waits for us all thread.

I live in a country that's extremely dominated by the right. Leftist people are almost non-existent, and it's even often used as an insult. By leftist I just don't mean it in the anti-capitalist sense, but also for cultural stuff like not being a homophobe, racist, misogynist, etc. In fact, these are even more important qualities in this context.

I've gone through and am still going through my fair share of ideological growth. Even though I've always been progressive by the standards of my country, well, it was a low bar. So I had to unlearn a lot of things, and learn a much more critical approach. I'm a constant learner, and I'm interested in politics, so in the long run it's changed me a lot.

Another thing is that I've always had a strong egalitarian tendency since my childhood. I think this is an important trait that enabled me to grow past the conservative hierarchies. I'm really glad I did, and I plan on continuing to do so. However, this came at a personal cost I deem great.

Simply put, I have a lot of trouble connecting with people anymore. I still can connect with people at some level as long as we don't talk about politics, but it's an important area to me, and more importantly, as a human being, I don't think I will ever be able to overlook someone who grossly objectifies women every day, expresses queerphobic sentiments constantly, jokes about violence against minorities regularly, or genuinely wants pogroms to happen to minorities.

This is not a single person, but it's the general attitude of the population here. Men tend to make more edgy reactionary remarks, but women aren't that different politics-wise either. Some of my friends are left or left-leaning, but most of them are right-wingers who say and believe in stuff like that.

I've tried to be understanding, see it from a different angle, tried to consider that people are 3-dimensional. But there's a limit. Both because I grew, and because some of them regressed, I now look at these people and feel like I'm a complete stranger. As a person who bonds with people hard, this is extremely upsetting to me. Loneliness has been a burden of mine for a long time for various reasons, but in the last few years I was finally starting feel like I had found a social circle I could truly belong to. Despite all the stuff I mentioned, in personal relations, these people had qualities I found quite positive and precious at the time. For example, they were much less the stereotypical "feelings are for women" type of guys, which are extremely common here. Maybe first time in my life, I was feeling truly at home. It's probably why I struggled for years to keep it going.

For a very long time, I tried having talks with them, explain stuff to them, listen to them. They didn't work. I tried being aggressive, because they are still kind of dudely dudes who sometimes "respect" a dominant attitude, but that didn't work either. I feel like they are truly lost, and infuriatingly, unapologetically reactionary.

I fear that if I abandon them I won't be able to find a new social circle like this one. I have international friends as well, and I love them, but anyone can guess that for some stuff you want local people to bond with.

Part of my frustration is due to how most people here tend to follow comically evil beliefs. If this was just a rare occurance, I wouldn't have reacted this strongly, because I'd know there were a lot of egalitarian people. But they are an extreme minority. The dehumanization is suffocating.

There isn't much to add. This is a cost I didn't consider would come to pass, but I think I've outgrown these people, except for a few friends who I appreciate. It's demoralizing losing your social circle again at this age, to start all over. Again. But I think it's mostly unavoidable, because I am done trying to be tolerant of their evil.

Has anyone gone through, or is going through, something similar? What was or is your experience like?

As I age, my ambivalence towards social interactions becomes clearer. I can't really sustain the doom and gloom facade, as it is entirely obvious that, if I ever achieve "solitary utopia", the first thing I would do would be to find someone to talk about how great it is to be alone.

I used to have an awesome way to do things where I saw my friends 5 or 6 times a year. It was enough for me. Unfortunately, that group is imploding since mid-pandemic, and I don't think there's a way back.

This is made worse by the fact that most men I know are either completely ignorant, downright hostile, or intentionally removed from anything relating kids or fatherhood. Sometimes it feels like I am carrying some kind of virus, and spending time with me will make them become fathers by association.

It's hard to not feel jealous of the kind of support my wife gets from her female friends.

Given the current situation, I feel inclined to ask. Has anyone managed to make meaningful friendships in their 40s or early 30s? And by that I don't mean just someone to play videogames with, but someone with whom you can share stuff?

I am not really opposed to friendships with women, but that is kinda covered already.

I won't bury the lede - my friend isn't non-monogamous or polyamorous, and that's the crux of the issue. At the least, he has never really considered non-monogamy before.

My (31F) marriage is uniquely suited for non-monogamy and has been for ten years strong, and my husband (30M) is entirely comfortable with what I'm proposing here. My biggest concern is the risk to my friend’s (30M) feelings and his perspective. So, before I speak to him about it, rather than seeking advice exclusively from people who practice ENM, I am actually curious what everyone might think of the situation. I also think Tildes probably has the only pool of monogamous people on the internet who would be interested in discussing this topic respectfully and approaching it with curiosity or empathy rather than disgust - I know it's a strange topic for most people.

Essentially, over the past two years I've been spending more and more time with a friend of mine. My husband is a pretty good friend of his, but they are not extremely close or best friends, they know each other through me. My friend doesn't date a lot, and we simply find ourselves drawn to spending a lot of time together, having very long conversations late at night, and doing things like going on a few vacations alone together. We haven't discussed it, but there is an overwhelming sense that we would probably date, had I been single when we met. He's very respectful of me and my marriage, but sometimes we each end up innocently flirting with the other - small compliments about our appearances, comments about how our “love languages” tend to be similar, etc. A few weeks ago he asked me if my husband and I have an open marriage (I don't often share that aspect of my life, my husband and I have been functionally “monogamous” since I've known my friend, and we haven't dated anyone else for quite some time.) I answered by saying that I actually do have an open marriage, yes. His question caught me off guard. I didn't expect him to ever ask because he doesn't seem like the type of person who would be interested in non-monogamy. So, I asked him what he thinks about non-monogamy, and he said he hasn't thought about it much, and has always been monogamous in past relationships. I wanted to think more about what to do next, so at the time I didn't let him know that I was specifically attracted to him.

Certainly, it may be very wise to accept that my friend is likely just monogamous, as most people tend to be, and simply continue on with our normal platonic friendship as it is. However, recently I'm finding it harder to contain my feelings on the matter, and he doesn't exactly make it any easier on me, because I really think he engages as well. Recently a mutual friend asked me if something was going on between us because she noticed him flirting with me. A couple of friends have agreed that the chemistry seems undeniable, so I don't think this is entirely one-sided.

At the least, I think I need to be honest with him that I'm attracted to him and open to some kind of romantic/sexual relationship with him. That way, if he says this makes him uncomfortable, I know I have to adjust my expectations and put proper boundaries in place. Of course, my hope is that he might be interested as well, at which point we can discuss what that would look like, but that's a separate topic because first I want to approach this with caution and respect.

I feel that it's really the sexual element that is up in the air. We already spend a lot of time together, and any purely monogamous person would probably already consider our behavior to be “emotional cheating,” if it happened to their marriage. I don't think most male/female friendships involve endless late night conversations, casual flirting, and prioritizing each other over other friends. To me, adding sex to the relationship seems like a no-brainer since we seem attracted to each other, but obviously most people wouldn't feel the same way.

Also, imagine the same situation, but with the genders flipped. We've all heard stories of unfortunate women who thought they had a great friendship with a man, only to eventually find out that the guy had been pining after her sexually for some time. My worst fear here is making my friend feel like our relationship was shallow, or that I was just trying to get something from him. But I didn't end up here on purpose, I just found myself here somehow - and I also would be more than happy to remain just friends with him if that's what he wants.

What would you think if you were a fairly monogamous person, and your close, non-monogamous friend admitted they have feelings for you? Would you be offended or hurt? Do you think there is a tactful way to bring it up? Would you prefer they never tell you, so you can just continue your friendship as normal, or for them to just move on without you if they can't let go of the idea?

Of course, the only real answer is that I won't know how he feels unless I ask him about it. I just thought I would talk this out with some kind strangers before jumping in. My brain seems quite wired for non-monogamy, and sometimes I struggle to see things from the perspective of monogamous people. Jealousy is not an emotion I have experienced often in relationships. I am flattered when any of my male or female friends admit attraction to me. Some of my friend groups are very queer and/or polyamorous, where behavior like dating your friends or being friends with ex-partners is fairly typical. But this friend is from a part of my life where non-monogamy is not as much of a given. I am also a bit worried about what our monogamous friends would think, as we do spend a lot of time in the same group of friends. I am worried that if he were to meet someone in the future who he wanted a relationship with, the woman wouldn't be comfortable having me around in the group, especially if I am still practicing non-monogamy at the time. I have many worries. Non-monogamy is complex. But mostly, I feel like this could work.

I know some of you are non-monogamous and I'm definitely interested in your thoughts, but I wanted to specify that I'm open to anyone else's take as well.

This is a topic that I have been holding to myself for quite some time, mostly because I didn't know how to quite phrase what I wanted to say. I still don't think I am going to do the best job but I wanted to hear what other peoples thoughts.

I'm someone who has always valued my few friendships very highly. My dad drilled into me at a young age that it is better to have fewer, high quality friendships than a plethora of not very meaningful relationships.

As people age and move on to different stages in their life, I completely understand that some people might not have the same amount of time to give you in a day that they previously used to. People get busy, have relationships, get married, etc. Which brings me to my situation and how I feel:

I have a friend who I've known since high school, and we're both 30 now. We've always been pretty good friends and in our later 20's we got even closer. I would say that we both deviate from the 'typical' unemotional guys who don't share how they feel with others. Both him and I would let us know what's going on in our lives and how it made us feel, etc. During this time, he was in a relationship (which he was not super happy with, due to some actions his partner did), but would share some of his more inner thoughts with me rather than her. They weren't the best at communicating with one another.

Fast forward two to three years, I got married, my friend broke up with his then partner. He moved back to his parents place, and the time before my marriage (I lived with my parents and had access to a car) I would try and visit him as often as I can just to hang out at night, or to see how he's doing. I've even driven over at midnight just to hangout with him until 4 AM because he was feeling lonely.

He congratulated me online (my wedding took place in another country, and I know none of my friends could afford to, or would not want to, travel just for a ceremony, so I didn't really invite anyone) but also indirectly told me he was jealous that I was married and stuff and he wasn't. For him, getting married is a much bigger deal than it is for me, I never really minded being single or alone. Please don't misconstrue this as me not being appreciative of my wife. She is very dear to me and I always to provide the best for her.

Fast forward another 2 years, and my friend got married to someone he met online. Since then our friendship has been mostly one sided almost. I had to initiate almost every conversation, and it's like messaging a blank wall, there's no reciprocation, and if there is it is very shallow. On top of that, we hang out much less as well (which I get, you do have to give a certain amount of commitment and attention to your spouse) so messaging is the main way to keep in touch.

Don't get me wrong, I've had this happen to me plenty of times. Mostly in university, had a couple of really good friends (or so I thought), as soon as they get a girlfriend, most of them forget I even exist. Maybe I expected more because I've known him for so long, or maybe I should expect less and accept that in the way our current society is shaped people start forming a bubble around themselves past a certain point in their life and you're no longer included in it.

Maybe this post came off as me being really entitled, I don't know. I just wanted to vent my frustrations somewhere. What does everyone on here think about relationships with their friends when you're married? Are you okay with seeing them less often? Is this just an expected outcome of being married?

Recently my daughter (third grade) has started learning to type at school. It's a Montessori program, so it's a pretty low tech environment overall, which I mention because I don't necessarily expect them to have a nuanced view of technology issues.

One of the typing programs they use is nitrotype.com, which adds a competitive gameplay element. However, it also has mechanism to friend another player. Friends can only communicate with stock phrases, so there's not too much "Internet leakage" beyond being able to choose a username.

I set it up for my daughter on her Linux Chromebook (I whitelist things I want her to have and everything else is blocked at DNS). Seeing her interact with it the first time, I realized that she spends as much time "adding friends" as doing the typing.

On its face, this activity is pretty harmless. But I am worried about the patterns it might be creating for her. I'm worried about her uncritically engaging with the dopamine hit of getting a new friend. Or how it shapes her idea of how many friends she has or where idea of her self worth comes from. Or what she thinks friends are.

So after that long preamble, here are some questions:

• How would you explain "friends" in this context?
• Would you distinguish them from other kinds of friends, either real or virtual?
• Would you attach a moral component to the activity? E.g. that it is good/bad or helpful/harmful
• How would you frame it to the teacher? Not so much in terms of whether or not they should do it in the classroom, but what kinds of conversations should they be having about the friends experience?
• If I'm asking the wrong questions, what questions should I be asking instead?

I'm really interested in seeing the perspectives people have on this. My own ideas are a bit murky, but I will put them down as a comment.

I find that while romantic relationships are quite specifically defined in our society, friendships don't seem to have the same universally understood characteristics or “road maps” for their development, so I find them interesting to discuss, especially considering the modern epidemic of loneliness many people are experiencing. Most people share the same understanding of what makes someone your romantic partner, but when does someone become your friend, vs. just an acquaintance? What makes someone a good friend or a bad friend - essentially, what can we expect from our friends, and what should we give in return?

I remember a scene from the show “Love on the Spectrum” (a reality show about people with autism in the dating world) that stuck with me. One of the people on the show explained that because he didn't understand socialization very well naturally, he had taken it upon himself to study the psychology behind it for many years, to the point where he became quite a charming and socially capable guy. I'm not autistic, but I was homeschooled up to age 14. I believe it made me quite socially stunted, and I didn't really learn how to maintain friendships until my mid 20s. Instead of learning social skills naturally over building blocks in preschool, I was reading books and journaling about it as an adult. Looking back, I no longer resent it, because being forced to work on it like a skill seems to have benefited me in the long run, and after a very lonely early life, I now have many dear friends who bring me joy.

I have a “system” of sorts that seems to work very well for me. There are three elements: consistency, vulnerability, and adaptability.

#1. Consistency

When people talk about their struggles with making or keeping friendships, this aspect is usually mentioned the most often. People are busy, schedules can get tight, and we all have a lot of things that get in the way of spending time with the people in our lives. Commonly, people aren't sure how often they should reach out to their friends, or worry that they are bothering someone who isn't interested in spending time with them. (Usually friends don't break up, after all, they just fade.) I think a lot of friendships are lost or missed because both people simply stop reaching out.

I never take it personally when I ask someone to hang out once or twice and they don't respond, or it doesn't work out. I just give it some time and try again later, at least a few times. Also, I try to reach out without requiring much time or effort from the other person, like just messaging to tell them something that reminded me of them, without scheduling anything at the moment. It also helps to learn people’s preferred communication styles - some people might never respond to texts, but enjoy casual phone calls, or visa versa. Sometimes I miss my friends but I'm way too busy to do more socializing at the time, so I schedule something weeks or months in advance.

Consistency can come in different forms, some people I see for short amounts of time each week, and others I only see a few times a year for quality time on a vacation. Both are good! Another part of consistency is making an effort to follow through on commitments - it's okay to cancel on friends a certain amount, but it's important to give notice and reschedule promptly.

#2. Vulnerability

A friendship needs consistency as a foundation, especially new ones. However, if you see someone every week and don't eventually learn personal things about each other, it can only go so far. And once you have introduced vulnerability, it can be difficult to find a balance. Many people worry about over sharing, and others struggle to recognize when they might be sharing too much. I try to match the energy of the person I'm interacting with. I don't come out swinging by mentioning my difficult religious upbringing and relationship with my parents (obviously,) instead, I ask people casual questions about their family, for example, and see what they're comfortable with sharing. When someone does share something vulnerable with me, I take note of it, and later on I tell them something of a similar nature about myself. Vulnerability is like a ladder - a ladder that is best climbed gradually.

I find that men tend to struggle with vulnerability the most (perhaps to no one's surprise,) particularly in friendships between two men. A few months ago my husband found out that his mother had relapsed, and he mentioned that he wished he had a friend to talk to whose parent was also an addict. I told him that actually, one of our friends had a father who passed away from addiction, something I knew about him despite being friends with the guy for a shorter period of time, and I said maybe he should talk to him about it. Of course, this is a sensitive topic that some friends simply don't always share with each other, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it got me curious about the likelihood of men sharing that information with each other, compared to a man sharing it with a woman, or to a woman sharing with another woman. Men and women alike have much to gain when we share vulnerable information with each other in a healthy way.

(side note: I struggle with friendships with people who are very private, or are more likely to share after being prodded a bit. I ask questions, but I'm not likely to push someone who isn't giving a lot of information, so with shy people I sometimes struggle to bring the friendship to a closer place. Most of my closest friends are all extroverts, and I would like to figure out how to get to know my shy, quiet friends a bit better, without being invasive or too intense.)

#3. Adaptability

Where consistency is most important at the beginning of a new friendship, adaptability becomes more important later on, for the longevity of a friendship. An adaptive friendship can survive when people's interests, schedules, and circumstances change. If you know you can have a good time with someone in different environments, a friendship is more likely to survive when people move, change careers, have kids, generally grow older and more mature, etc.

A good example is the fact that I had a lot of surface-level “festival friends” or “concert friends” in my mid 20s, and despite hanging out with them consistently for years, I'm not friends with most of them anymore. This is mostly because our tastes in music or hangout spots changed, and there was nothing else tethering or deepening our friendship, so when those things changed, it ended. On the flipside, most of my closest friends today actually are people who I met at festivals or parties, but it's because I've invested in those relationships and expanded them to exist beyond the circumstances that we met under. I can lose interest in going to electronic music festivals and not worry about losing the friends that I camp with there, because I make sure to pull those friends into my normal day to day life, by going hiking, cooking dinner, getting coffee, etc. I also try to do new things with friends, so we have a shared new experience together.

Another example of adaptability is which social contexts you are in when you spend time together, as in, hanging out in group settings only, or getting together only when a mutual friend is there, vs. spending time 1:1. When I invite a friend of a friend to hang out with me without the original mutual friend, that's taking a step into a relationship that exists independently. I keep this in mind whenever one of my friends starts dating someone that I really get along with and make it a point to form my own friendship with that person, so if the relationship doesn't last, I have the opportunity to keep that person in my life.

Maybe some of these things seem like common sense or human nature, but it certainly took me a while to recognize some of them. Whenever I meet someone I really get along with, I make sure to keep these principles in mind. And when I feel myself drifting away from a good friend, I think about which of the three elements could use some attention.

What are your thoughts on cultivating quality friendships? Does it come naturally to you? Anything you struggle with in particular?

https://nesslabs.com/inverted-pyramid-life

ChatGPT Summary:

The article suggests that the common notion of finding one "true calling" is a fabrication and proposes an inverted pyramid model as a healthier perspective for personal and emotional development. The standard model follows a narrow path of exploring as a child, specializing as a student, and defining oneself as an adult. The inverted model places focus on exploration and optimal opportunities rather than specific expertise. The article argues that embracing self-complexity and expanding one's identity across different domains leads to resilience and personal growth.

My highlights:

• it seemed hard to find alternative options because, after years of hard work and smart choices, they were sitting at the tip of the pyramid.

• Why should we look for our one true calling in the first place? Why not invert the pyramid?

• In this paradigm, the potential you have as a child is just the beginning—the tip of a cone of creativity that widens as you grow up. Because you’re optimizing for opportunities and not trying to define yourself through specific expertise, you can keep expanding your playground all your life

• This ability to identify yourself across multiple domains and roles, which researchers call “self-complexity”, has been found to support emotional resilience by reducing the impact of failure or setback in any single domain. You may lose your job but still be a great friend. Your startup may fail, but you may run your first marathon with your partner. You may be rejected from your dream school but win a poetry prize.

• The self-complexity that arises when we invert our pyramid of life also encourages personal growth and self-discovery, as you can explore and evolve across various aspects of your identity, which means a richer, fuller life.

• life becomes a giant sandbox where we can learn anything, grow in any direction, and connect with anyone.

• instead of asking, “So, what do you do for a living?” we’ll start asking: “So, what makes you feel alive these days?”

Two years ago by wife and I split up as friends and while I understand it and think it was the right move, I'm still in tears and the feeling of a broken and pointless life. She moved on, found friends, new hobbies, new whatever. I still am where she left me and I don't know what to do. We've been together for almost 20 years and while I wasn't very communicative before, I sure ain't now. Even less than before.

I tried finding new friends, but I can't really read people and seem to misinterpret everything. I've met a woman on my daily walks with my dogs and her dog loves me and my little idiot dog. We two seemed to like eachother and after a few months of random meetups I asked her if I should give her my email (because I thought that would be less intrusive than my phone) to meet for walks. I made clear that I didn't intend to hit on her, but the look on her face broke my heart. I can't really tell what it was, but it wasn't positive. Now I'm back in my hole and back at feeling alone.

How do people move on? How can I get out of this... I don't know, terrible loneliness combined with the fear of seeing that expression again if I open up to others? I don't think I can handle this often.

Occasionally people here get into discussions about social relationships, namely dating, and what quickly comes up is how both of those seem to be less common and harder to 'get'. This more frequently happens in overtly dating and relationship subreddits and similar dedicated spaces, albeit, of course, this also pops up in more general communities, alongside any community where social relationships are an important topic, like communities about social ideologies like feminism or the manosphere or about genders because heterosexuality.

One thing I often find is missing is some historical context. A lot of talk about loneliness and lack of platonic or romantic relationships is basically limited to the recent past, if it even talks about the past at all. It seems like it would be helpful to look at what relationships and dating were like 10, 20, 30 years ago when it comes to talking about the problems or just general state of both today. So do you know of good sources of information concerning relationships in the past? If so, then why do you think they don't pop up in discussions about dating?