I don't think my wife and I are that weird here, but we have jokingly exaggerated arguments about stupid things we don't really care about. For example, She loves desserts a la mode. I have an apparently hot take that a la mode makes the hot dessert cold and the ice cream melted, and ice cream is better on the side.

Does anyone else do this, and if so, what do you argue about?

The idea of what it means to be a man has evolved significantly over the last century. We can build a fresh perspective on understanding masculinity beyond the stereotypical confines of strength, stoicism, and dominance. I appreciate Deimos trying out new groups and allowing topics to flourish. I could see this group having healthy discussions about the diverse experiences and expectations of men in today's society.

I envision topics on personal anecdotes, insights, and questions. I wanted to list out a few possibilities for future discussions that are top of mind.

1. The changing roles and responsibilities of men in personal and professional life.
2. The impact of societal norms and expectations on men's mental health.
3. Embracing vulnerability and emotional openness.
4. Men's role in promoting gender equality and mutual respect.
5. The significance of self-care and well-being in men's life.
6. How men can effectively communicate their emotions, needs, and concerns.
7. Relationships, expectations, and stereotypes

While not comprehensive, it's a start of areas we may consider. What are your thoughts on what this group could be?

EDIT - Grammar and Summary 7/9/2023 @3 pm mountain

Hello, everyone. It's encouraging to see such in-depth and thoughtful conversations on ~life.men. I wanted to take a moment to recap the significant themes I read up to this point. This is high level, so please correct me if I got it wrong.

Our discussions around Stoicism have been quite enlightening, and we've recognized its potential to encourage self-control and inner resilience. Nevertheless, we've also acknowledged its potential misuse, which might inadvertently promote unhealthy aspects of masculinity. This is a subject that requires more nuanced exploration.

We've unanimously expressed the need for a supportive environment for men of all identities. This includes cis, gay, trans, and men of all other identifications. Despite potential challenges such as toxicity and inactivity, many believe this forum can serve as a respectful and positive space to engage in discussions about contemporary masculinity.

Conversations have emphasized challenging traditional gender norms and fostering inclusivity. There's been a strong consensus against defining masculinity by outdated stereotypes. We've expressed a shared commitment to creating an environment welcoming everyone, regardless of gender identity. We also acknowledge the role of diverse geographical and cultural backgrounds in shaping our understanding of gender, which we deeply value.

The topic of men's role in promoting gender equality has been prominent. We agree on the importance of men as allies in this movement. Tackling the rigid roles defined by patriarchal norms is crucial, as is having open and transparent conversations on these issues. Progress in gender equality benefits everyone - it's not a zero-sum game.

We've also delved into gender norms, roles, and the usage of gendered language. It's been encouraging to see such scrutiny of societal expectations and a strong emphasis on promoting universally beneficial values and inclusivity. There's a shared understanding of the complexity of gendered language and how it can both define personal identity and represent broader affiliations.

We've explored varied experiences in male-specific spaces. From the importance of representing all demographics to discussing the challenges of modern fatherhood, we've covered extensive territory. There's a shared commitment to guard against potential toxicity and ensure balance in all our discussions.

We have expressed the importance of focused discussions on men's experiences. Challenging assumptions about masculinity and addressing men's issues from multiple perspectives can impact our society.

I'm new to Tildes and not sure where to go from here. Given all the valuable insights and themes we've gathered, how can we adopt draft guidelines for our community? I suspect we can see how this develops organically, but I appreciate approaching things intentionally. Thanks for all the comments and discussions. It has me thinking much more broadly!

I'm facing this now and it seems like an impossible and monumental choice.

How did you decide to marry your partner? How long had you been together? If you lived together beforehand, for how long? Did you make you choice on having kids before marriage?

Tale as old as time, I suppose. Straight man doesn't understand women. I'm hoping this site will provide a healthy place to discuss my feelings and get wholesome input from others without it turning into a pity party or cesspool.

I didn't have any interest in dating until after I'd graduated college. Unfortunately, I immediately moved to an area of the country notorious for its unfavorable gender ratio. There are many more men than women here which means I'm starting on hard mode. I do at least have some traits which make things easier than for most. I am high earning, reasonably fit (not super cut but I work out most days), tall and I believe mentally healthy. However I can tell that my approach doesn't really catch with most people.

I've had limited success out here. Some of my failures are mine to own. Getting started from nothing means I'm venturing into the unknown. I'm a naturally anxious person and never felt any intuition in social situations. Thankfully I've managed to figure out a way of being that jives with some people and learned the hard way the things I do that don't jive so well. But dating seems to have its own social rules - and they're harder to learn due to all of the misinformation.

To sort out a lot of the misinformation I look to the people I see with the greatest degree of success. The older couples that are clearly deeply happy. My parents do pretty well in that regard. They've been married for 30-ish years with nothing more than a short argument between them. Or maybe I'll talk with an older co-worker who loves his wife the same way he did decades ago. People say that all happy families are the same, and unhappy families each broken in their own way. It's clear that there are some things in common with the happy couples - a universal recipe for happiness and success.

• Forgiveness
• Consistent effort
• Flexibility
• Similar values

I try to take these virtues with me when dating.

Of course, mutual attraction is a black box and also plays an important role. I've tried dating women that are just outside of what I would consider attractive. I think it's important to know what truly is important to me. But I found that things did not feel right and I can't compromise in that way. I'm not looking for a 10. But if I know they are not attractive to me it won't work.

In the normal world (outside of online dating) I think the odds of a random person being instantly notably attractive are very low. Someone needs to be sufficiently aesthetically attractive, but also have the right mind and soul. Without the latter two I have no interest. So for me when I've met a nice woman from a dating app the process of learning more about this person begins - and it can take a while to truly get to know someone. But I draw on the virtue of effort and am more than willing to make that an active process as we get closer.

There are actually some people out there that this all seems to align with. I think it's mostly a matter of time before I find the right person - so I'm not entirely discouraged. But the vast majority of women I meet seem to have the same feedback. They don't feel a connection - maybe that translates to "they're not attracted enough to me", maybe it's something else. But what I call a "connection" is something that can't be absolutely determined after one date.

Given my profile pictures are representative of my appearance, I don't think they're all saying I'm aesthetically unattractive to them. Sure, some might decide after meeting me that they aren't as attracted in person. I experience that for myself some of the time. But I suspect that much of the time this is more of a mismatched approach. I really want to know either how better to find my kind of person, or what ways I can adapt to be flexible for the women I'm dating.

Edit: Thank you everyone for your thoughts!

A lot of people said a lot of things, many of which sounds right to me but only a few I think are applicable as next steps.

1. My own reflection leads me to believe that being more present and less analytical will make dates more enjoyable and productive for both people.
2. Keeping a very long term goal in mind cripples the dynamic of early dating. It requires future prediction abilities beyond what a human can do.
3. I don't know if I can be the "fun guy" all the time but I can definitely increase the amount of fun.

I wrote up a journal entry about what I wrote here and everyone's responses. I'll bring up my thoughts with my therapist later. Maybe this is weird but I threw the journal entry into ChatGPT. If nothing else it was positive and cheerful, which is helpful. But I was able to drill down on a few different things and got answers that sound reasonable. This is surely a common enough topic that it's got good training data for it.

I'd also like to say, for whoever reads my comments, that much of what I wrote is more about following a thought as far as it will go more so than putting my internal constitution into writing. I'm here to be as malleable as I need to be.

I won't bury the lede - my friend isn't non-monogamous or polyamorous, and that's the crux of the issue. At the least, he has never really considered non-monogamy before.

My (31F) marriage is uniquely suited for non-monogamy and has been for ten years strong, and my husband (30M) is entirely comfortable with what I'm proposing here. My biggest concern is the risk to my friend’s (30M) feelings and his perspective. So, before I speak to him about it, rather than seeking advice exclusively from people who practice ENM, I am actually curious what everyone might think of the situation. I also think Tildes probably has the only pool of monogamous people on the internet who would be interested in discussing this topic respectfully and approaching it with curiosity or empathy rather than disgust - I know it's a strange topic for most people.

Essentially, over the past two years I've been spending more and more time with a friend of mine. My husband is a pretty good friend of his, but they are not extremely close or best friends, they know each other through me. My friend doesn't date a lot, and we simply find ourselves drawn to spending a lot of time together, having very long conversations late at night, and doing things like going on a few vacations alone together. We haven't discussed it, but there is an overwhelming sense that we would probably date, had I been single when we met. He's very respectful of me and my marriage, but sometimes we each end up innocently flirting with the other - small compliments about our appearances, comments about how our “love languages” tend to be similar, etc. A few weeks ago he asked me if my husband and I have an open marriage (I don't often share that aspect of my life, my husband and I have been functionally “monogamous” since I've known my friend, and we haven't dated anyone else for quite some time.) I answered by saying that I actually do have an open marriage, yes. His question caught me off guard. I didn't expect him to ever ask because he doesn't seem like the type of person who would be interested in non-monogamy. So, I asked him what he thinks about non-monogamy, and he said he hasn't thought about it much, and has always been monogamous in past relationships. I wanted to think more about what to do next, so at the time I didn't let him know that I was specifically attracted to him.

Certainly, it may be very wise to accept that my friend is likely just monogamous, as most people tend to be, and simply continue on with our normal platonic friendship as it is. However, recently I'm finding it harder to contain my feelings on the matter, and he doesn't exactly make it any easier on me, because I really think he engages as well. Recently a mutual friend asked me if something was going on between us because she noticed him flirting with me. A couple of friends have agreed that the chemistry seems undeniable, so I don't think this is entirely one-sided.

At the least, I think I need to be honest with him that I'm attracted to him and open to some kind of romantic/sexual relationship with him. That way, if he says this makes him uncomfortable, I know I have to adjust my expectations and put proper boundaries in place. Of course, my hope is that he might be interested as well, at which point we can discuss what that would look like, but that's a separate topic because first I want to approach this with caution and respect.

I feel that it's really the sexual element that is up in the air. We already spend a lot of time together, and any purely monogamous person would probably already consider our behavior to be “emotional cheating,” if it happened to their marriage. I don't think most male/female friendships involve endless late night conversations, casual flirting, and prioritizing each other over other friends. To me, adding sex to the relationship seems like a no-brainer since we seem attracted to each other, but obviously most people wouldn't feel the same way.

Also, imagine the same situation, but with the genders flipped. We've all heard stories of unfortunate women who thought they had a great friendship with a man, only to eventually find out that the guy had been pining after her sexually for some time. My worst fear here is making my friend feel like our relationship was shallow, or that I was just trying to get something from him. But I didn't end up here on purpose, I just found myself here somehow - and I also would be more than happy to remain just friends with him if that's what he wants.

What would you think if you were a fairly monogamous person, and your close, non-monogamous friend admitted they have feelings for you? Would you be offended or hurt? Do you think there is a tactful way to bring it up? Would you prefer they never tell you, so you can just continue your friendship as normal, or for them to just move on without you if they can't let go of the idea?

Of course, the only real answer is that I won't know how he feels unless I ask him about it. I just thought I would talk this out with some kind strangers before jumping in. My brain seems quite wired for non-monogamy, and sometimes I struggle to see things from the perspective of monogamous people. Jealousy is not an emotion I have experienced often in relationships. I am flattered when any of my male or female friends admit attraction to me. Some of my friend groups are very queer and/or polyamorous, where behavior like dating your friends or being friends with ex-partners is fairly typical. But this friend is from a part of my life where non-monogamy is not as much of a given. I am also a bit worried about what our monogamous friends would think, as we do spend a lot of time in the same group of friends. I am worried that if he were to meet someone in the future who he wanted a relationship with, the woman wouldn't be comfortable having me around in the group, especially if I am still practicing non-monogamy at the time. I have many worries. Non-monogamy is complex. But mostly, I feel like this could work.

I know some of you are non-monogamous and I'm definitely interested in your thoughts, but I wanted to specify that I'm open to anyone else's take as well.

How visible is your lifestyle to others in your life (personal, professional, etc)?

Have you found love recently?

What do serious relationships look like for you? Is marriage on the table, or is it contrary to polyamory?

I'm hoping to spark discussion of the topic, since I haven't seen it mentioned much on Tildes.

I don't necessarily mean your exact kinks, more the overall psychological and emotional aspects.

I just had a conversation with my girlfriend about this very topic, discussing why we liked the things we do.

Having thought through it more thoroughly, I find that giving up power makes me feel desired and objectified by the dominant in a safe environment, which is a feeling I seldom get to experience as I'm neither an 7+ out of 10 or in otherwise position to attract that kind of attention.

In addition, always feeling like I have to control every situation I'm in and often feeling somewhat anxious if I'm in an unfamiliar environment, this sort of play also allows me to safely relinquish control.

How about you?

This is a silly sounding topic, but I'm unfortunately in such a situation and want to be a step ahead in self defense. My ex wife and her new boyfriend have been overheard by my kids saying that they're going to "get me" or generally do something bad to me. They are not physically strong people so I'm not worried about a violent attack, but they are intelligent people and I'm worried about all the other options the internet leaves open to them. My ex obviously knows my social security number so I have already locked my credit with the three agencies (Experian, Transunion and Equifax). I have also changed every password I can think of and have security cameras around the entrances to my home. What else should I be doing? Are there legal consulting services or routes I should be looking into to prevent possible problems? I don't want to go overboard with this (and I promise I'm not a paranoid person) but I want to take any reasonable precautions I can to prevent bigger problems.

I've been married for about 20 years. Our bedroom has been mostly dead for half of that. When I left to go take care of my mother, I didn't know if I would come back home. My husband and I like each other well enough, but we have each been in our own personally narrated relationship hell for too long. While I was away, we started writing each other letters, the distance seemed to let us "get it all out." We both seem committed to making the next 20 years better than the first. If there is any interest, I'm willing to chronicle our journey back from the brink of divorce, as well as answer any questions anyone might have. I'm the one with the lower sex drive, and with sex more tied to emotional intimacy than my partner. I like Tildes as my personal space and don't really want my husband to have an account, but I would let him use mine to speak his own words if that is something someone would want to hear. If there is no interest, I'll delete this topic in about a week, as I would find it a bit embarrassing in my history.

Edit: I would also be interested in hearing how other people worked through this if anyone would like to talk about it.

I've spoken about my personal journey over the past six months in comments a few times, but I felt the need to make a post about it, mostly as catharsis for myself, but if it helps other people out, that would be cool too. Also, I may be doxxing myself a bit here, which is a little unavoidable if I want to tell this story accurately. I'd appreciate not being stalked.

I'd like to detail my journey of what is, so far, the most difficult time in my life, what I've been doing to cope, how I'm doing now, and what the future may hold for me. This may be a little long and detailed, but I'll try to hit the high points.
Lets start at the beginning here.
I'm a 34 year old part time military officer in the US. I met my ex wife years ago, in high school originally. We were casual acquaintances back then. We had a couple of classes together, and I would tease her a little bit (I was immature when I was young, and totally unable to communicate well with girls). We went to prom together, but mostly lost touch after high school.

After college, I came back to my home town, started developing my career in IT, hanging out with friends and coworkers. One of the people I worked with happened to be dating a girl who was good friends with my ex wife, and we started all hanging out, and reconnecting. My ex confessed that she always had a crush on me, and started actively perusing me. It started out as a casual relationship that I didn't see going anywhere, but it lasted. Eventually, I fell deeply in love with her, and we moved in together a short while later.

I was so devoted to this woman. We were so alike in so many ways. We shared the same interests, the same type of humor, we developed our own language and style of communication. I had never really seriously considered wanting kids, and over time and a bunch of thought, I decided that I didn't really agree with the institution of marriage. In my mind, when two people love each other, that should be enough, and either party should be free to walk away at any time without any legal burdens or extra hoops to jump through, because I wouldn't want someone to be obligated to stay with me for even one minute.

Both things were really important to her however, and we almost broke up over it. Eventually, after spending time with kids, and some deep introspection on my own part, I came around on kids, and coming around on kids almost necessitates coming around on marriage. You don't need to be married to have kids, of course, but it certainly provides a more stable environment and smooths out a lot of practical, logistical concerns. I asked her to marry me shortly after that, after five years together, in 2016.

What followed were the happiest couple of years of my life. My wife had worked her way up in an accounting firm, she was managing a department, on track to become a partner in a few years. She had so much determination, ambition, and grit. It made me glassy eyed to think about how proud I was of her, all the personal growth and progress she'd made since I knew that girl in high school. I was developing a successful career in network engineering as well, and frequently flying out for short stints and conferences and design meetings. We were still best friends, and always wondered about people in unhappy marriages. Why couldn't they just be like us? Why were we so good at this?

We took trips together, we watched shows together on the couch, I couldn't get enough of her.

Her job had always been stressful, but some time around 2018, the stress had come to a head. She was frequently working until 10pm on week nights during her busy season, then she'd come home, down a few glasses of wine, go to bed after me, and wake up far too late, continuing the cycle of stress. This continued on for a few months. I tried to be there for her, prepare meals, support her however I could, but to little avail. She was angry, stressed out, upset all the time. She'd cry from the stress frequently, and was totally unable to cope.

One day, she came to me with a proposal. She would quit her job and start her own business. I always knew that she wanted to do that eventually, but I had hoped it would be after she had amassed significant savings to do it. Her business idea was to start a tabletop gaming cafe. We had gotten pretty deep into board games and TTRPGs, and she thought that with her business sense and accounting knowledge, she'd be a perfect fit to do this job. I agreed with her, but a significant part of me thought that it was a massive risk, and financially, we were on the cusp of being truly independent. This would set us back a few years in the best possible scenario. She was my wife though, and I saw what this job was doing to her, so I agreed.
She would work six more months while planning, save her money, and then quit to start this venture.

As everyone told us it would, it did not exactly go according to plan. Securing a location and funding was far more difficult than she anticipated. She was stuck waiting for 8 months for a location that didn't pan out. She wasn't used to having to push people and follow up and annoy people to get them to do what they'd say they did, all of that was new for her. No one would extend a small business loan to an unproven entrepreneur with a fairly novel business plan. All in all, between the location, and the build out, and delays with licensing and permits, she mostly waited around for two years. In this time, I could see she was spiraling. She'd wake up at noon and do puzzles or binge watch tv all day. At night, she would go out drinking with her friends. I would join sometimes, but I couldn't, and didn't want to most of the time because I was just exhausted from work.

Around this time, I discussed with my ex wife, and took a new position in the military, and got word that I would be deploying in 2020. I'm a leader of about 150 people, and preparing for this kind of thing is extremely involved, so I was working a lot. Meanwhile, my ex wife was going out constantly, 3-4 times a week, and coming home absolutely wasted. Sometimes she ubered, but other times she drove. In late 2019, I told her that I was concerned about how much she was drinking, that I thought it was unsafe. This was a bit of a wakeup call for her, as she had struggles with alcoholism in the past. She told me she was going to stop drinking and start going back to AA. I told her that if she thought that was what she needed to do, I would support her. She started her sobriety journey, and things started improving. She still was in limbo with her business, but construction was at least starting, she could see the light at the end of the tunnel.

In spring of 2020, I left for my deployment in the middle east, hopeful and optimistic. Her business was coming along nicely, I was taking this fairly prestigious position, and I was excited. We were sad to be apart, and it was heartbreaking to say good bye, but I'd see her again in ten short months.

The deployment was stressful, but rewarding. I accomplished a lot of things I'm very proud of while I was out there, and about halfway through, my wife finally opened her business! This is where things started taking a turn. She was unable to secure funding still, so she basically dumped all of her debts on my lap. She never directly asked me for the money, but she worded it in such a way that I couldn't really refused. "Hey... so the contractors are asking for their 60k... I don't have any way to pay them... so... I need to figure something out". Of course, she was my wife, I had the money, why would I say no? I had always been very good at saving, and had a decent amount in investments. All in all, I spent about $160k directly funding her business. It was an emotional, somewhat sickening feeling parting with that much money. My life savings more or less. This wasn't part of the plan, and I was upset at her for putting me in this position.
I told myself that it was ok. This was an investment in us. She'd make that back eventually, and what's hers is mine and what's mine is hers. Besides, this was my wife, and above all else, I wanted her to be happy. I stuffed those feelings of pain and resentment down, and continued with the deployment.

During the whole time I was gone, I would get messages from her about how hard it was being alone, how difficult taking care of the dog and business was, how lonely she felt, how much she missed me and she couldn't bare it anymore. I felt truly awful, but there was very little I could do 10,000 miles away. I texted with her often (the signal wasn't so good for live video or audio calls). We would sext a bit, exchange nudes to try to tide each other over, but I could tell she was struggling in that area as well.
About five months in, that kind of thing abruptly stopped. At the time, I thought she was learning coping strategies and adjusting to life with me gone. How little did I know.
This winter, I came home finally. Stepping off that plane into the terminal, a few hundred yards away from my wife was the most excited I've ever been in my life. I was giddy, there was a huge smile on my face as I walked down the concourse in my uniform, and the first glimpse I got of her standing there, my god, it was like being in the desert and stumbling upon a pristine oasis. She had requested that my parents not be there, so against my better judgement, I told them that they were not to come, but I didn't think about that at all. She was standing there in a ratty sweatshirt and jeans, but she was still the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. I went up and hugged her tightly, kissed her, and told her how much I loved her. Having her in my arms after so long was just such an amazing feeling.
We went back to her car, and things quickly became much more... 'clinical', I'd say. Instead of feeling like we hadn't seen each other for ten months, it was like we were just hanging out on the couch after a long weekend, talking about practical things very quickly. It didn't really strike me as odd at the time, only now looking back on it.

We went home, had sex, I got a burger, we were content. The next week or so, that same 'clinical' feeling persisted. She took one day off of work, then went back, saying that because the business was so new she couldn't take much time off. Fine. I stopped by the shop often, but every time I was there, I got a cold feeling from her and her employees, like I wasn't truly welcome. She would come home late each night and we'd watch something or have sex, but I didn't really see her much. I really wanted to go do a trip together, spend some quality time together, but it didn't pan out. I spent my time fixing up the house which she'd let fall into disrepair or playing video games to relax.

One night, a week later (February 9th), I'm up late waiting for her to get home. 12:30 rolls around, no word from her. 1:00, nothing. Finally I message her, ask her when she's going to be home. She said she got caught up at work, and would be staying over her friends house for the night. A bit odd as her friend lives maybe 1/2 mile down the road, but whatever, she told me she'd been staying with this friend a lot while I was gone to stave off loneliness, so maybe she just misses that. I go to bed alone disappointed.

The next day, she comes home at 10, I'm on the computer. She sits down on the couch, and doesn't say anything. I can tell she's upset, so I ask her what's wrong. No answer. I turn the computer off and walk over, and ask her again.

She blurts it out. "I want a divorce".

This didn't even register for me. I didn't even hear her at first. After a few seconds, I just immediately assumed she was joking. It was a frequent joke of ours "You don't like this movie? We're getting a divorce!" it was one of many things we did to mess around.
I smiled a little, then it vanished. "Wait... you're serious?"

My head fell into my hands. "I don't understand... why?"

The reasons she gave me made no sense. I wasn't affectionate enough. I wasn't outgoing or social enough. She didn't like the nicknames I gave her. Stuff that had never come up before, and besides, I'd just been gone for close to a year, why are these suddenly issues now?

I thought, easy, I can fix all of that stuff no problem. We'll go to couples counseling. No, I'm tired of counseling (We never did any form of counseling together).

Okay, lets take that trip, lets work on the marriage. No, I'm tired of fighting.

None of it made any sense. She had to run some errands, I asked if I could come, I just needed to spend time with her and get to the bottom of this. She went to work. I stopped by, tried to get some clarity. She reiterated the same points, said that we don't communicate well. Referenced a fight we had at a party 3 years ago where we didn't talk for a day. I barely even remember what the argument was about. I hugged her, whispered to her that I can't lose her. She responded "Wellllll.....". That night, she told me she was staying at her mom's.

I talked to a friend of mine who is a divorce attorney a couple of days later. He told me that he hates to bring this up, but 99% of the time in situations like this, the wife is cheating. I hadn't done any snooping until then, but she had an old phone at the house. I opened it up. There it was in black and white. She'd been having an affair with one of the regular customers at her store for six months. "I love you baby" "I can't wait for us to be together" "You make me so happy".

I wanted to vomit. I wanted to break things. I wanted to murder this guy. I wanted my wife back. I felt so much rage, confusion, sadness, worthlessness. I couldn't bring myself to be mad at her though. When I read it, I was on the phone on my friend, and exclaimed "That fucking BITCH!", but I didn't really mean it. Not my beautiful wife. It was the guy's fault. He corrupted her. He was insistent and wore her defenses down. He turned my wife against me.

I contacted a divorce attorney that day. The marriage was over, I knew that now. What followed were the worst two months of my life. So much self loathing and depression. Anxiety. Panic attacks. How could I have not seen this? Where did I go wrong? Why did I go on that deployment? Why didn't I call and text my wife more? What did this guy have that I didn't? My friends and family helped, but some advice was better than others. "Just don't think about her" is not good advice, FYI.

I enrolled in therapy for the first time in my life. It helped a little, not a lot though. I kept up with my gym routine, which did help. I spent a lot of time walking my dog.

Eventually, I called my ex, and I told her "I want to do this quickly and with as little emotion as possible. I have a lot of things I'm feeling right now but I'm not going to bring them up because I want this to go smoothly." I never told her that I knew about the affair. My lawyer said it could only hurt things. Eventually we came to a settlement. I'd keep the house, my dog, my investments, etc. She'd keep her business, including the bulk of the capital I'd spent on it. The lawyer said this was a good deal. I still felt like I was getting fucked. I gave her that money less than a month before she started cheating on me. It was a complete slap in the face.

I spent a lot of time curled up in a ball crying. Prior to this, I hadn't cried in fifteen years. Little things would trigger me. A text from her about finances. Someone telling me about her shop. A smell that reminded me of her.

Two months after our separation, I started dating again. I met a wonderful woman, she sold exotic plants for a living. Empathetic, kind, beautiful, smart. It didn't work out. She needed someone in a more stable place. Looking back it was too soon.

I kept up with therapy and the gym, they both helped a little. I've gone on a couple more dates since then, nothing has really stuck. I'm still struggling with feelings of self confidence/attractiveness.

All in all, I DO feel better than I did, but I still don't feel great. I've been trying to expand my hobbies, I'm playing kickball now, I've picked up surfing. I'm trying to force myself to be a little more outgoing and social. I'd like to make new friends also, but not a ton of luck there yet. I do still cry sometimes. The other day, I was driving home from a bar, taking a route I used to take with my ex when we came from the movies. I remembered how happy I was with her by my side back then and started crying on the way home. I really hope that happens less. It's really unpleasant.

I have lately been feeling like I'm in a little bit of a rut. It's been six months and each week flies by with me doing much of the same thing. Video games at night, work during the day, gym in the afternoon, maybe a date here or there. I wouldn't mind maybe moving to a new city, but the thought of that and all the work that's involved, and having no friends is frankly terrifying to me. I do know that I don't want to live life like groundhog day. I want to experience more new experiences.

As far as I know, my ex wife has gone public with her relationship with the guy she left me for. By all outside accounts she seems happy, but who knows, I don't really keep tabs on her much and only communicate with her regarding a payment she owes me from the marriage. I've come to redirect most of the anger I had towards the guy at her instead. I am extremely bitter towards her and what she did, and I probably always will be. I don't see forgiveness in my future any time soon. I wrote her a letter after the divorce was finalized detailing that I knew everything she'd been doing, and assuring her that what she did was irredeemable, and no matter how she justified it in her head, it was not ok. I don't know if she ever even read it. She's still never apologized for what she did, and I doubt she ever will.

As for me, I'd like to get to a place where I'm happy by myself. That'll be a long road I think, as even before I met my ex, I wasn't happy alone. I'd like to go amass new experiences; see the world, live in new places, do things I've never done before. I feel like I'm getting old, and I haven't done the things I want to do yet.

I'd also like to find someone to fall in love with again. I love having a partner around and I'd be sad if I couldn't find someone to connect with like that again. I've been doing online dating, but man, it's really rough out there. I far prefer meeting people the way I met my ex, but you can't force that.

I hope that I continue to get better. It feels like a kind of plateau right now. If I compare how I feel now to the happiest moments of my life with my ex as a 10, and the month right after the separation as a 1, I would say I'm at around a 5. Not horrible, but not very good either. I hope that number steadily increases, with or without another person.

One "gift" that this whole experience has given me is self awareness of my emotional state. I feel a lot more in tune with the way I feel. I know when I'm having a bad day, and I usually know if I'm feeling bad just because I'm tired, or because I haven't had caffeine, or because something triggered me.

I also feel a lot more deeply now. I cry during emotional scenes in TV shows, I have highs and lows, whereas before I remember even telling my ex that emotionally, I felt a little numb. That could be a good thing depending on how you look at it.

Anyway, I know it was a little long, and if you read it, thank you. If you've got any questions or comments, feel free to leave them, and if this is inappropriate for this board, please feel free to let me know and I'll remove it.

I mentioned offhand in our introduction thread that I've never dated -- I wanted to hear people's experiences, since chatter online is very dominated by the male experience of mostly looking for casual hookups and struggling to get matches. I particularly want to hear from people who did not go in wanting a casual relationship

Some additional discussion questions: Did it go well or poorly? Did you run into mismatches in expectations? Did you end up in an unsafe situtation? How many people did you explore before you found someone long term?

Age for context would also be helpful, since I know many of you skew older.

I have cptsd and comorbid-depression, am gay and trans, and i have bad social skills (i cant even maintain eye contact with someone). I feel completely hopeless for the future and i just wanted to know if anyone else here related, or if they've recovered. Thanks
Edit: Thank you all very much for the great responses. Maybe i'll make it :)

I'm finally ready to sacrifice my self esteem and faith in humanity at the altar of dating apps. My question for those of you with more experience with them is this - do different apps attract noticeably different pools of users? What have you noticed comparing the populations on different apps? Which wound up working best for you, if any of them did?

Any that had particular features that bothered you? I've been using Hinge for like a day and already discovered they have a separate queue for your best matches that they demand a premium currency to message :/

Recently had a conversation with a good friend about dating, and it had me curious about how everyone on Tildes approaches dating. Tell me a bit about how you date! Here's a few prompts/thoughts I'm curious about:

• How long does it take for you to know if you're attracted to someone (sexually, romantically, emotionally, shared interests, etc)?
• What do you like to do when you date and does it change depending on how many dates you've been on or how well you know the person?
• Once you start dating someone, how long does it take you to understand whether you want to date the person long term or whether it's not going to work out?
• Do you only date people you meet in real life or do you use dating apps? How do you approach going from stranger to dating them?
• What's most important in deciding whether you want to date someone? Do they need to have an interest in activities you enjoy, shared values, emotional intelligence, a certain kind of humor, or something else?
• Is there something you don't understand about dating and want to share your frustration?

2020. That's when I met her.

To some of my close friends it sounds silly to them when I tell them we loved each other. It's hard for some people to grasp the intensity that a long distance relationship can have. But I don't have anything to prove to anyone - I truly did love her.

Being with an ace, I thought, would make things more complicated as I am not asexual myself. But if anything it made things simpler. It made the long distance easier to deal with. It made it easier to be patient. Easier to deal with her not being in my life all the time, because when push came to shove, she was in my life when I needed her to be. In fact, she was the main reason I labeled myself as polyamorous this year. I realised that I didn't want to pretend we were just friends anymore. I cared for her too much for that.

In so little time, she changed me into a better person. She taught me subtleties about love, sex, relationships but also about life in general. She helped me through mental struggles. She was my first call when we got my SO’s sister out of Kyiv this year. In fact, the day of the war, we talked for over six hours in a row.

She was always, always positive no matter the challenge. A true constant. Saw the flip side nobody else could see. No matter how ill she would get, she'd always brush it off and get back on her feet. In the two years I knew her, she had never made me cry, and her messages would always put a smile on my face.
Difficulty tends to make people stronger. She's had an incredibly difficult life, and was the toughest person I knew.

None of those challenges defined her. She was not defined by her gender, illness, sexuality. She was defined by her constant, absolute positivity. And her unending love for Korea.

She believed, as I do, that we're all one entity - the universe experiencing itself. That her role here had been to spread love and positivity. I hope everyone here will be lucky enough to meet someone like her, at some point in their life.

She was 30. The world is worse without her in it.

I bought an engagement ring for my girlfriend as I plan on proposing to her later this year. I haven't told too many people yet outside of my family, so I wanted to just post this somewhere because I'm super excited but have no where else to post. It was a good chunk of money but I had budgeted for it and it felt good to finally pull the trigger!

My spouse and I went to dinner with my parents in law tonight. Father-IL can be hard in Mother-IL generally speaking, often picking on her and 'teasing' her. Mostly criticism. It can make things pretty uncomfortable, but as mid-westerners do, rarely my spouse or the other family people speak up unless it's to rib back in order to deflect or make it stop. FIL and MIL are both in their late 70's, so aging, and conservative catholic, so daily drinkers. We went to dinner tonight to celebrate my MIL's birthday. FIL is generally stressed out due to drama with his siblings/health issues/he's just a super stressed out person, and he ordered something in a wrap and asked for no onion. Meal came and there was onions. FIL complains passively to us and we say he should say something. He says, "no, no, no."

Server came and asked, "how is everything?"

FIL says "it's fine, it's fine"

MIL starts to say, "well..."

FIL interrupts with, "shut your mouth, MIL!"

Awkward silence...eat dinner when it comes...everyone is trying to act like nothing happened.

We finish dinner and we're finishing our drinks and MIL asks, "myspouse, are you okay?"

My spouse says stilted, "yeah, I'm fine."

MIL says, "world, are you okay?"

And out of me erupted, sternly but not with a yell, towards my FIL, "it's not okay to say 'shut your mouth' yo your wife."

Everyone got quiet. Then FIL tried to defend himself and say, "I've rarely ever said that, something something, I don't need this."

Then he shut me down so I just said, "heared, heard" and left.

He said in the car on the way home, "maybe I over reacted, but..."

And I said, "I shouldn't have said anything, I know you're under a lot of stress."

Now everything is awkward and strained and quiet. I don't need to be adding more to an already stressful life situation for older folk whom I do care about, but I couldn't hold my tongue. How does one strike balance in a situation like that?

As the title says I got into my first relationship this past week (Im 22; male) and boy do I feel happy. Now I gotta be the best me I can be, any relationship tips for a dude? (I'll take advice from all genders).

Thank you!

1 week later edit: Thank you to everyone who offered advice based on their experience. I got a taste of different stories however the tl;dr seems to be:

• be honest, even if the truth is ugly
• constant open communication
• stay true to yourself
• dont rush things; let things happen naturally
• if things don't turn out well; then thats just life

Hiya folks!

My partner (M36) and I (F30) have been in a relationship for 2 years (living together for 1) and have started talking about marriage lately. Neither of us has popped the question yet (we both want to be proposed to), but we're starting to do "Marriage Mondays" and work through The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John M. Gottman and Nan Silver. (I was also thinking of reading The ADHD Effect on Marriage by Melissa Orlov since my partner has ADHD.)

We're both big into communication, studying relationship books, and making sure we iron things out before we take the next step. Before we moved in, we talked about divvying up household chores and made a spreadsheet detailing who does what. We also made sure that the spreadsheet was not a holy text, and if one of us was feeling bad (whether because of sickness, mental health, or work stress), the other would temporarily pick up the slack (or at least cut the other person some slack!) It's been great so far and I really do feel like we're in an equitable partnership. (As much as it can be, at least!)

But of course, marriage is a whole other story. We both live in a different country from where we're from and if we ever have kids, we won't be able to rely on either one of our families for much. I know the major topics of finance, kids, and careers, but is there anything else (besides the wedding) you all may have done or questions you asked to "prepare" for marriage?

Right now, the number one post on my personal Reddit feed is this: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9bryj8/straight_guys_of_reddit_whats_the_most_intimate/

Reading through this made me feel quite a few different emotions, but I would say that my biggest takeaway is disappointment.

I'm pretty young, being in my late twenties, but I know that the largest Reddit demographic is younger than me. And it terrifies me to see that people who are probably less than 15 years younger than me appear to be far more stricken by toxic masculinity than I was when I was their age. Right now the top response is a story about someone scratching his friend's back during a military deployment. He later mentions that his comrades gave him a hard time for it. Is the idea of machismo so fragile that we cannot take simple actions - even to provide relief to a friend?

I'll be the first to admit that a single AskReddit thread is not going to be an accurate representation of the levels of intimacy men actually give each other. But the simple fact that it's full of jokes, to me, makes it appear that they are using humor as a defense mechanism.

The fact that young men have so many barriers preventing them from building bonds with other men in a society often partitioned by gender deeply concerns me. I worry that this is the beginning of a societal issue in the same vein as racism was for our parents and grandparents and will only cause more problems as we age and gain political sway.

I'm bringing this up here because I would like some perspective on this. I've always been very sympathetic to other people, and my views as a gay man are obviously going to be different from straight men. Where is this toxicity coming from? Is there a way we can stop it, or is it already ingrained in the collective psyche?

This is a topic that I have been holding to myself for quite some time, mostly because I didn't know how to quite phrase what I wanted to say. I still don't think I am going to do the best job but I wanted to hear what other peoples thoughts.

I'm someone who has always valued my few friendships very highly. My dad drilled into me at a young age that it is better to have fewer, high quality friendships than a plethora of not very meaningful relationships.

As people age and move on to different stages in their life, I completely understand that some people might not have the same amount of time to give you in a day that they previously used to. People get busy, have relationships, get married, etc. Which brings me to my situation and how I feel:

I have a friend who I've known since high school, and we're both 30 now. We've always been pretty good friends and in our later 20's we got even closer. I would say that we both deviate from the 'typical' unemotional guys who don't share how they feel with others. Both him and I would let us know what's going on in our lives and how it made us feel, etc. During this time, he was in a relationship (which he was not super happy with, due to some actions his partner did), but would share some of his more inner thoughts with me rather than her. They weren't the best at communicating with one another.

Fast forward two to three years, I got married, my friend broke up with his then partner. He moved back to his parents place, and the time before my marriage (I lived with my parents and had access to a car) I would try and visit him as often as I can just to hang out at night, or to see how he's doing. I've even driven over at midnight just to hangout with him until 4 AM because he was feeling lonely.

He congratulated me online (my wedding took place in another country, and I know none of my friends could afford to, or would not want to, travel just for a ceremony, so I didn't really invite anyone) but also indirectly told me he was jealous that I was married and stuff and he wasn't. For him, getting married is a much bigger deal than it is for me, I never really minded being single or alone. Please don't misconstrue this as me not being appreciative of my wife. She is very dear to me and I always to provide the best for her.

Fast forward another 2 years, and my friend got married to someone he met online. Since then our friendship has been mostly one sided almost. I had to initiate almost every conversation, and it's like messaging a blank wall, there's no reciprocation, and if there is it is very shallow. On top of that, we hang out much less as well (which I get, you do have to give a certain amount of commitment and attention to your spouse) so messaging is the main way to keep in touch.

Don't get me wrong, I've had this happen to me plenty of times. Mostly in university, had a couple of really good friends (or so I thought), as soon as they get a girlfriend, most of them forget I even exist. Maybe I expected more because I've known him for so long, or maybe I should expect less and accept that in the way our current society is shaped people start forming a bubble around themselves past a certain point in their life and you're no longer included in it.

Maybe this post came off as me being really entitled, I don't know. I just wanted to vent my frustrations somewhere. What does everyone on here think about relationships with their friends when you're married? Are you okay with seeing them less often? Is this just an expected outcome of being married?

Two years ago by wife and I split up as friends and while I understand it and think it was the right move, I'm still in tears and the feeling of a broken and pointless life. She moved on, found friends, new hobbies, new whatever. I still am where she left me and I don't know what to do. We've been together for almost 20 years and while I wasn't very communicative before, I sure ain't now. Even less than before.

I tried finding new friends, but I can't really read people and seem to misinterpret everything. I've met a woman on my daily walks with my dogs and her dog loves me and my little idiot dog. We two seemed to like eachother and after a few months of random meetups I asked her if I should give her my email (because I thought that would be less intrusive than my phone) to meet for walks. I made clear that I didn't intend to hit on her, but the look on her face broke my heart. I can't really tell what it was, but it wasn't positive. Now I'm back in my hole and back at feeling alone.

How do people move on? How can I get out of this... I don't know, terrible loneliness combined with the fear of seeing that expression again if I open up to others? I don't think I can handle this often.

Probably I'm not alone in such situation when a good person you know believes in something really harmless but still ridiculous in the depth of your mind.

For example, that astrological sign seriously defines compatibility of people, or WTC was demolished intentionally in the US, or GMO is bad because in some experiment rats reportedly stopped reproducing and therefore someone wants to shrink certain human populations by popularizing GMO.

None of such beliefs actually do something directly harmful but sometimes just the fact people you know believe that is almost disgusting. Any proof would be discarded as an "official", biased one, profitable for those who have money and power.

What should be done in such a situation? What would you do if your otherwise perfect friend seriously considered Earth flat?